Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

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  • thegibdogthegibdog Posts: 2,106
    How do Schwalbe Ones size up? Got some Michelin Pro4 SCs in 25mm and they come in at about 27mm on Ultegra wheels and I don't have enough clearance for them.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    thegibdog wrote:
    How do Schwalbe Ones size up? Got some Michelin Pro4 SCs in 25mm and they come in at about 27mm on Ultegra wheels and I don't have enough clearance for them.

    My ONE 25 on 25 mm wide rims (20 internal) come at 28 wide and 25 high
  • DKayDKay Posts: 1,652
    thegibdog wrote:
    How do Schwalbe Ones size up? Got some Michelin Pro4 SCs in 25mm and they come in at about 27mm on Ultegra wheels and I don't have enough clearance for them.

    Tubeless 23s come up at 24mm wide on my 23mm Archetypes. Tubeless 25s come up at 26mm wide on my 24mm SL23s.
  • thegibdogthegibdog Posts: 2,106
    Cheers, so I'm guessing they'd come up taller than 25mm on standard rims.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,800
    ^Going to try some of those.

    How are tubeless tyres when taking in a plane? Do you have to deflate them fully and then re seal/fill on arrival, or can you keep enough pressure to keep sealed?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    Carbonator wrote:
    ^Going to try some of those.

    How are tubeless tyres when taking in a plane? Do you have to deflate them fully and then re seal/fill on arrival, or can you keep enough pressure to keep sealed?

    If you keep 20-30 PSI they should stay on the rim no problem
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,800
    Thanks. Thats what I thought/hoped.

    Any idea what the max pressure increase would be from say 25psi on a 23mm tyre whilst in the hold of a plane?
    Are they likely to get anywhere near 120psi?

    Do you run tubeless road tyres at the same pressure you would run tubs and clinchers?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    Carbonator wrote:
    Thanks. Thats what I thought/hoped.

    Any idea what the max pressure increase would be from say 25psi on a 23mm tyre whilst in the hold of a plane?
    Are they likely to get anywhere near 120psi?

    Do you run tubeless road tyres at the same pressure you would run tubs and clinchers?

    You can probably calculate it, assuming the air pressure in the luggage hall is the same as outside, then look for pressure at 37,000 feet, divide sea leve pressure by that and you get a coefficient to multiply your tyre pressure... should climb up to a 100 PSI equivalent... but I suspect even the luggage area is pressurised to an extent, otherwise all liquids in the bags would pop...

    I use much lower pressure. Schwalbe ONE 25 at 75 PSI
  • cattytowncattytown Posts: 647
    Think about it. Air pressure at sea level is only about 14 psi. That puts the max relative increase at about 14 psi...

    Paul.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    The numbers are so small as to be irrelevant Carb...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • dodgydodgy Posts: 2,884
    Carbonator wrote:
    Thanks. Thats what I thought/hoped.

    Any idea what the max pressure increase would be from say 25psi on a 23mm tyre whilst in the hold of a plane?
    Are they likely to get anywhere near 120psi?

    Nowhere near. The altitude difference from (say) 0 feet to a cruising altitude of (say) 35000 feet, means that approximately, your tyres will behave like they have an extra 10psi or so in them.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    I am not sure your maths are correct. Basically what you are saying is that going in the absolute vacuum of space only brings a differential of 14 PSI, which is the difference between zero pressure and 1 Atm... so what's the need for space suits and stuff? A respirator and sun cream would be plenty... :lol:

    I think you need to multiply rather than add... :roll:
  • cattytowncattytown Posts: 647
    The need for space suits is to make sure you have something to breathe, and that with no pressure your bodily fluids don't boil. Small variations in pressure can make quite a difference to boiling point.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    cattytown wrote:
    Small variations in pressure can make quite a difference to boiling point.

    And to the volume and pressure of gases. I am not sure measuring the difference between internal and external is the way... I think it is the ratio between internal and external pressure what matters
  • dodgydodgy Posts: 2,884
    I am not sure your maths are correct. Basically what you are saying is that going in the absolute vacuum of space only brings a differential of 14 PSI, which is the difference between zero pressure and 1 Atm... so what's the need for space suits and stuff? A respirator and sun cream would be plenty... :lol:

    I think you need to multiply rather than add... :roll:

    I think he's about right, I made a stab at about 10psi. I think you forget that aircraft, including cargo areas, are pressurised.

    If this really was a problem, we'd be adjusting PSI when climbing in Colorado. Because 10000 feet is about the same pressure equivalent in an aircraft cruising at 35000 feet.
  • cattytowncattytown Posts: 647
    1ATM <> 14 PSI, the pressure at sea level. Absolute vacuum is 14 psi less (zero). A tyre inflates to 100PSI is app 115PSI above zero.

    I think you are overthinking it. It's not a logarithmic scale like sound pressure.

    P.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • maddog 2maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    just get them to fly low, if you are concerned.


    I just knock them down to 50ish psi for flying. They stay seated and never had any issues.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,800
    Cheers guys.

    Do you have to use mounting fluid or is that just if tyre is difficult to get on the rim?
    Could you not just use some of the sealant?
  • munkstermunkster Posts: 819
    I bought some of the Schwalbe mounting lubricant (is it called Easy Fit?) but it does for all the world look just like soapy water anyway. I am sceptical it made a jot of difference as well since they were a sod to get on, full stop!
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    Carbonator wrote:
    Cheers guys.

    Do you have to use mounting fluid or is that just if tyre is difficult to get on the rim?
    Could you not just use some of the sealant?

    I think it's a genius bit of marketing to be honest...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    Lordgun in Italy have the Schwalbe ONE 25 tubeless at 35 Euro each... based on feedback on Italian forums I have ordered a pair... :D
  • dulwichirondulwichiron Posts: 104
    Lordgun in Italy have the Schwalbe ONE 25 tubeless at 35 Euro each... based on feedback on Italian forums I have ordered a pair... :D

    only 1 x 25 left now. Some very cheap deals on other kit there though if the online currency converter is to be believed.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    Lordgun in Italy have the Schwalbe ONE 25 tubeless at 35 Euro each... based on feedback on Italian forums I have ordered a pair... :D

    only 1 x 25 left now. Some very cheap deals on other kit there though if the online currency converter is to be believed.

    Shame, looks like I nicked the last pair. Ordered yesterday, sent yesterday to my parents in Italy... :mrgreen:

    On a different note, still waiting for a pair of IRC 25 mm tubeless to test and review... looks like no tyre has arrived to Europe yet, maybe next month... :(
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    How are people finding them? Have to say I am not overwhelmed so far...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    ddraver wrote:
    How are people finding them? Have to say I am not overwhelmed so far...

    I find them awesome... as good as my Corsa CX tubulars but with less stress and much lower running pressure (75-80).
    What do you run them on? What were you riding before?
  • matt-hmatt-h Posts: 847
    They are nice but no as good as Corsa's in my opinion.
    Ride just like Ultremos

    Matt
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,293
    ok, my thoughts

    I am 105kg, running Schwalbe One, 25c on Fulcrum Racing 3's - 2 way fit.

    Tubed
    I ran about 100-110psi in them for general fast club running but would drop that to 95-100psi for longer, slower winter rides where I wanted a bit more comfort. The lowest I ever ran them was 85psi (testing them for RVV). I liked them! For the past 2 years i was running them on Ksyrium Elites until the rims wore out on them. I had 2 months or so running them tubed on the new wheels

    I thought they ran pretty well, puncture resistance was acceptable for a tyre of that sort on Dutch Bike paths and even UK country lanes. They were light enough to give the bike a good bit of zip. They were nt so good for commuting but they arent supposed to be...

    Tubeless
    First ride i went for 100psi which was horrible. I steadily dropped the tyre pressure and last weekend i did a 130km ride with them at 85psi. This was a good pressure for comfort I think and they elt a bt more like a normal tyre but I might try 75psi for RVV as there is no issue with Pinch flats now.

    Although I have not had a puncture yet, I did not get that many with the old set up anyway. To be honest I think they feel less good to ride than the tubed set up and I don't think I would recommend someone buying new wheels in holland to go for a heavier, more expensive wheelset for Dutch bike path riding - I don't really think there are enough benefits.

    Where I think they would be fantastic is under a Salsa/Ibis type "all road" (or whatever you call it) bike set up for winter riding/CX/Gravel paths/stony, muddy UK country paths etc with discs where you could use a wide tyre at a relatively low pressure for the off road, but still high enough to not drag on the road. This would eliminate the possibility of stone puncture or pinches and make a good "adventure" bike. however, the slight issue with that is that there arent any tyres available that would fit that bill really (I don't reckon Schwalbe Ones 28c would cut it really...)

    So, I'm not dissapointed I run them, but to be honest, I wouldnt tell someone who rides on good roads to go tubeless. If i end up back in the UK (likely) I would be interested to see what they re like on Cornish country lanes which are commonly covered in cow censored /sticks/stones etc and I'm interested to see what they will be like on the flat cobbled sections at RVV where I will be able to run low pressures for my someone my size.

    Edit - tl:dr? Watch the GCN vid, I agree almost completely with that guy...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,898
    Good feedback there.

    I see tubeless as the best compromise today to maintain the same level of performance of a top end clincher increasing safety and minimising roadside hassle. If there is lower rolling resistance thrown in, even better, but it isn't a priority for me.
    If punctures are not a concern, I agree there is no need for it. The safety element is however interesting... being able to run lower pressure (80 PSI feels like 100-110), not risking an inner tube blowout, be that courtesy of over heating or other reason, being able to keep the tyre on the rim in case of a puncture at speed... I see these as invaluable and worth spending a little extra. I don't know how we got to the point of spending a fortune on what are in essence cosmetic upgrades, but being extremely skeptical when it comes to spending on safety... it's a strategy I totally disagree with.
  • munkstermunkster Posts: 819
    Re: "I've bought the Hutchinson Atom Galactiks on Ugo's say so ;-)"
    I want feedback ASAP as they are on my to do list...

    Quick feedback goes like this: mounted them onto DA hubbed Pacenti SL23s very easily (hahahhahahaaaa yeah right!!!) and they look good at least nicely understated. Incredibly tight fit, but then I have no experience of other tubeless tyres - they are impossible to rotate around the rim even with no air in them, for example. Pumped up first time, no sealant required for them to hold air, very impressed with that, but again no idea if that's "normal" or a factor of the rim/tyre combo.

    Done two short rides (30 and 40km respectively), all went well, and for the record my fastest rides for a long long time = significant aero benefits?? :lol: Slightly lower pressure second time (only from a thumb test though) so perhaps a little air escaped after the first ride. Definitely felt more comfortable second ride, but still think I can reduce the pressure a little, I am still at around 90psi I'd expect. I am 73kg any suggestions what pressures? Grip levels feel OK versus my usual GP4000s but again maybe pressures will make a difference even more on this. Definitely confident enough to lean over at speed on sketchy-ish corners.

    The 23mm tyre does *look* too narrow for a 24mm rim, the brake track is at least flush with the tyre, and maybe even wider than it; not 100% comfortable with that really, so they seem to come up narrow but maybe just the "sitting flatter" effect. Will defo go 25mm next time (only didn't because my forks generally rub on anything wider than 23mm) round however, I get the feeling the rim will reduce the bulge sufficiently for them to fit. Maybe Hutchinson will release a 25mm version by then? If so I'd buy it.
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