Scottish nationalists- a dodged bullet

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Comments

  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,970
    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    rick_chasey said:

    david37 said:

    First.Aspect said:

    morstar said:

    Not sure on the run your own referendum bit.

    There is a recent precedent for that path backing you into an impossible corner.

    Also makes you look a bit banana republic when Scotland’s current upper hand is that Westminster is run like a banana republic.

    Hard to say. There are a lot of loonies in the SNP. What we get to see are extreme nationalists dressed up in reasonable clothing.

    But this is the party that is destabilising their country in the middle of the most acute health crisis in a century, the most acute recession in history and a fortnight after a Brexit deal came into effect, the results of which we don't yet know. So there is clearly a lot of pressure to do something, anything.
    its already de stabalised it. theyve been sowing lies, misinformation and resentment for years. Their once enviable education systems has dissapeared, the financial competence of the SNP / Scottish government is non existant and with no one to oppose them they make up ridiculous badly thought through laws to prosecute political rivals.

    Sturgeon ran their health department and over saw the metoric rise of the drug and health problems of Scotland, they have a much bigger budget per head for the things theyre responsible for and yet, their problems have got worse not better under SNP rule.

    AND yet, despite all that, the dissent, bitterness and resentment that that harridan sows means the SNP continue. A highly successful politician on that measure. A vile deceitful sow on all others.
    You sound like a remainer. Just swap out SNP for Brexiters.

    It is the same logic to them to leave the U.K. as it is for the U.K. to leave Europe.

    How can you not see this.

    It is exactly the same arguments but some people have switched sides.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    rick_chasey said:

    You misunderstand me.

    I’m not talking about the ref.

    I’m saying the logic of Brexit and the logic of Scottish independence is extremely similar so I find it really weird you want to keep Scotland in the U.K. but support Brexit.

    And I will ignore your comment about English competence vs Scottish - that is not very safe ground at all.


    Now, now Rick, don’t go putting words into his mouth, he only referred to a gulf in competency, it is you projecting English competence onto him.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,750
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    david37 said:

    First.Aspect said:

    morstar said:

    Not sure on the run your own referendum bit.

    There is a recent precedent for that path backing you into an impossible corner.

    Also makes you look a bit banana republic when Scotland’s current upper hand is that Westminster is run like a banana republic.

    Hard to say. There are a lot of loonies in the SNP. What we get to see are extreme nationalists dressed up in reasonable clothing.

    But this is the party that is destabilising their country in the middle of the most acute health crisis in a century, the most acute recession in history and a fortnight after a Brexit deal came into effect, the results of which we don't yet know. So there is clearly a lot of pressure to do something, anything.
    its already de stabalised it. theyve been sowing lies, misinformation and resentment for years. Their once enviable education systems has dissapeared, the financial competence of the SNP / Scottish government is non existant and with no one to oppose them they make up ridiculous badly thought through laws to prosecute political rivals.

    Sturgeon ran their health department and over saw the metoric rise of the drug and health problems of Scotland, they have a much bigger budget per head for the things theyre responsible for and yet, their problems have got worse not better under SNP rule.

    AND yet, despite all that, the dissent, bitterness and resentment that that harridan sows means the SNP continue. A highly successful politician on that measure. A vile deceitful sow on all others.
    You sound like a remainer. Just swap out SNP for Brexiters.

    It is the same logic to them to leave the U.K. as it is for the U.K. to leave Europe.

    How can you not see this.

    It is exactly the same arguments but some people have switched sides.
    Some of the arguments are similar but the circumstances are very different.

    Scotland and England have been in a union for over 300 years, one where it appears that Scotland agreed to be run to a large degree by the England, admittedly a long time ago. The EU is a much newer and less complete union, but which was gradually headed in the direction of the England - Scotland union where decision making and powers were being progressively given up: many in the UK did not like that direction of travel and decided to bail out before it went too far.

    Fyi I've said before that if the Scots really want to leave then that's their choice.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    edited January 2021
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You misunderstand me.

    I’m not talking about the ref.

    I’m saying the logic of Brexit and the logic of Scottish independence is extremely similar so I find it really weird you want to keep Scotland in the U.K. but support Brexit.

    And I will ignore your comment about English competence vs Scottish - that is not very safe ground at all.


    Now, now Rick, don’t go putting words into his mouth, he only referred to a gulf in competency, it is you projecting English competence onto him.
    Show me the death rate break down between England and the other regions and talk to me about competence.

    That alone is a real problem for unionists.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    edited January 2021
    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    edited January 2021
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You misunderstand me.

    I’m not talking about the ref.

    I’m saying the logic of Brexit and the logic of Scottish independence is extremely similar so I find it really weird you want to keep Scotland in the U.K. but support Brexit.

    And I will ignore your comment about English competence vs Scottish - that is not very safe ground at all.


    Now, now Rick, don’t go putting words into his mouth, he only referred to a gulf in competency, it is you projecting English competence onto him.
    Show me the death rate break down between England and the other regions and talk to me about competence.

    That alone is a real problem for unionists.
    You don't know what you are talking about. Based on the population density in Scotland it is doing about as well or worse that one would expect. Glasgow has struggled in exactly the same way as other big UK cities.

    A better comparison would be Ireland or even Norway or Finland.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You misunderstand me.

    I’m not talking about the ref.

    I’m saying the logic of Brexit and the logic of Scottish independence is extremely similar so I find it really weird you want to keep Scotland in the U.K. but support Brexit.

    And I will ignore your comment about English competence vs Scottish - that is not very safe ground at all.


    Now, now Rick, don’t go putting words into his mouth, he only referred to a gulf in competency, it is you projecting English competence onto him.
    Show me the death rate break down between England and the other regions and talk to me about competence.

    That alone is a real problem for unionists.
    You don't know what you are talking about. Based on the population density in Scotland it is doing about as well or worse that one would expect. Glasgow has struggled in exactly the same way as other big UK cities.

    A better comparison would be Ireland or even Norway or Finland.
    I thought the whole thing with Scottish population distribution meant that something like 80% of them live in urban areas?
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You misunderstand me.

    I’m not talking about the ref.

    I’m saying the logic of Brexit and the logic of Scottish independence is extremely similar so I find it really weird you want to keep Scotland in the U.K. but support Brexit.

    And I will ignore your comment about English competence vs Scottish - that is not very safe ground at all.


    Now, now Rick, don’t go putting words into his mouth, he only referred to a gulf in competency, it is you projecting English competence onto him.
    Show me the death rate break down between England and the other regions and talk to me about competence.

    That alone is a real problem for unionists.
    You don't know what you are talking about. Based on the population density in Scotland it is doing about as well or worse that one would expect. Glasgow has struggled in exactly the same way as other big UK cities.

    A better comparison would be Ireland or even Norway or Finland.
    I thought the whole thing with Scottish population distribution meant that something like 80% of them live in urban areas?
    How does that compare to anywhere else? Is it any different in Norway or Iceland or Ireland?

    It is about how that urban population is distributed.

    In Scotland there is rather more of a gap between cities. There is also a large gap between Scotland and England with not a lot in it.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,970
    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,750
    edited January 2021
    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    It is not dissimilar to some Catalan HQ'd companies relocating their registered offices to Madrid when the Catalan independence issue was at its height. A precautionary move.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,970
    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Tough cost cutting - I wonder if that is why they don't respond to phones calls, emails or post! They have better an utter shambles to deal with for a while, but particularly diring covid.

    A major move such as this is highly unlikely to improve matters, but thankfully my dealings with them are minimal.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    Pension?
    _
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,970
    rick_chasey said:

    Pension?

    Not mine thankfully!
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,485
    if the Scots vote to go why not let them go? The economics for Scottish independence don’t stack up, never did and never will but let’s not have hard facts stand in the way of jingoistic BS.

    Equally Northern Ireland and the potential there for a referendum on uniting Ireland is getting more compelling.

    Hard line Protestants are now the political minority in the North, the bedrock of unity with the UK has fractured since Brexit as the Province is now an annex to both the UK and Europe which is ultimately down to the bumbling buffoon Boris and his lies.

    I find it ironic that all the little englanders who voted for Brexit actually accelerated and fuelled the breakup of the UK.



    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Why not Glasgow area? Paisley is pretty cheap.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Why not Glasgow area? Paisley is pretty cheap.
    I didn't make the decision.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Why not Glasgow area? Paisley is pretty cheap.
    I didn't make the decision.
    Would it help if I provided you with a simple summary of the point that we are discussing?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Why not Glasgow area? Paisley is pretty cheap.
    I didn't make the decision.
    Would it help if I provided you with a simple summary of the point that we are discussing?
    I'm not here to defend the choice of location of a firm's admin centre when I've had nothing to do with it.

    I was merely suggesting that the choice was unlikely to be political.
    _
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 2,956
    Struggle to see anyone sane looking at the Brexit negotiations and thinking they want to go through the protracted process of leaving an even closer union.

    Would also suggest that the various differences that the devolved nations have tried to approach lockdown with has been some of the most tiresome political posturing.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Why not Glasgow area? Paisley is pretty cheap.
    I didn't make the decision.
    Would it help if I provided you with a simple summary of the point that we are discussing?
    I'm not here to defend the choice of location of a firm's admin centre when I've had nothing to do with it.

    I was merely suggesting that the choice was unlikely to be political.
    If you change location to save costs, but also country and thus effectively lose a chunk of your workforce, when relatively local alternative locations are a available that many of your existing staff could commute to? Is it possible there are other factors?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Why not Glasgow area? Paisley is pretty cheap.
    I didn't make the decision.
    Would it help if I provided you with a simple summary of the point that we are discussing?
    I'm not here to defend the choice of location of a firm's admin centre when I've had nothing to do with it.

    I was merely suggesting that the choice was unlikely to be political.
    If you change location to save costs, but also country and thus effectively lose a chunk of your workforce, when relatively local alternative locations are a available that many of your existing staff could commute to? Is it possible there are other factors?
    IIRC Sunderland has quite a big call centre industry.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    Aegon Scottish Equitable are moving their admin from Edinburgh to Sunderland in April. Wonder if the SNP has had any bearing on that decision.

    Why would they? Might have to spell it out for us.

    I assume it’s moot to point out it’s not a Scottish firm...
    Their UK administration and head office have been in Edinburgh since 1831 when the company was founded. Aegon may now be the owners, but a move from Scotland to England for a company such as ASE is a big thing, but you know that (or should).

    I don't know their reasoning hence my question in the second sentence, but it is very unusual.
    So I happen to know the group is undergoing a particularly tough cost cutting process, so if I was guessing, it is to do with that.
    Why not Glasgow area? Paisley is pretty cheap.
    I didn't make the decision.
    Would it help if I provided you with a simple summary of the point that we are discussing?
    I'm not here to defend the choice of location of a firm's admin centre when I've had nothing to do with it.

    I was merely suggesting that the choice was unlikely to be political.
    If you change location to save costs, but also country and thus effectively lose a chunk of your workforce, when relatively local alternative locations are a available that many of your existing staff could commute to? Is it possible there are other factors?
    IIRC Sunderland has quite a big call centre industry.
    So does Glasgow.

    Next.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,911
    Next what? I don't know what you're trying to argue.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    rick_chasey said:

    Next what? I don't know what you're trying to argue.

    Sure you don't want that synopsis? I think it would help.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Next what? I don't know what you're trying to argue.

    Sure you don't want that synopsis? I think it would help.
    I might need it. Are you saying that ASE moved an office to Sunderland in case Scotland leaves GB?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,687
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Next what? I don't know what you're trying to argue.

    Sure you don't want that synopsis? I think it would help.
    I might need it. Are you saying that ASE moved an office to Sunderland in case Scotland leaves GB?
    I didn't, no. But someone postulated that, yes. The cost saving counter argument isn't all that compelling.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,970
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Next what? I don't know what you're trying to argue.

    Sure you don't want that synopsis? I think it would help.
    I might need it. Are you saying that ASE moved an office to Sunderland in case Scotland leaves GB?
    Pre Indie ref #1 there was a lot of concern at Standard Life, Prudential, ASE and the other Scottish life offices and other financial services companies about the impact of a leave vote and contingency plans were made about moving to England as that is where the vast bulk of their customers reside. Pru opened offices in Sussex as a result and moved a lot of their admin there.
    So yes, there is a very real possibility that opening a significant operation south of the border is linked to the SNP's desire for independence.
    Whether that is the case with ASE we clearly can't be certain, but to have to sack all your existing staff and recruit completely new staff is a pretty big decision to have taken for what is essentially a Scottish company (no matter where their current owners are based).
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,866
    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Next what? I don't know what you're trying to argue.

    Sure you don't want that synopsis? I think it would help.
    I might need it. Are you saying that ASE moved an office to Sunderland in case Scotland leaves GB?
    I didn't, no. But someone postulated that, yes. The cost saving counter argument isn't all that compelling.
    If it helps I used to work with a yank and if he got put through to a Scottish call centre he would hang up as he could not understand them.

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