2014 Worlds - Elite Men RR *SPOILERS*

frenchfighter

Next time you find one point it out and we can discuss it.

RichN95.

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

The World RR the previous year was a different kettle of fish as they had 4 more riders and no hills up which Cav had to be nursed, so could start the leadout train with about 180k to go!

They only had one more rider in the Worlds (eight in total). Don't forget Eisel and Kiryienka in the Olympic team.
The difference was that Kazakhstan had about six in the front group.

ddraver

frenchfighter wrote:

Next time you find one point it out and we can discuss it.

Valverde v Gerrans - both wheel suckers extraordinare - one a hero, one a toad

Contador works for spanish team = equals hero, class, true champion etc
Froome works for UK team = disrespectful to fans, classless etc

and that's just from this thread...

DeVlaeminck

RichN95 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

OK a few more lazy opinions (not mine) from the 2012 Olympic spoiler thread,
"Get the feeling Froome decided to sod off because he wants to beat Brad in the TT"
"Froome looked (relatively) weak"
"Did Froome do anything except sit on Cav's wheel before being first to be dropped"
"No he was shoot"
"I definitely think Wiggo toasted himself more than Froome"

So the general opinion was Froome put up a rather nondescript show at best while Wiggins risked his TT chances by putting everything in. The tactics got a fair bit of stick too.

And from the Cycling News live updates:

11:51:23 BST As the main peloton hits Box Hill, the British team are again on the front en masse, with Chris Froome and David Millar dictating the tempo.

11:55:02 BST 5:27 was the gap between the break and the Froome-led peloton at the top of the first climb of Box Hill.

12:12:07 BST Tony Martin (Germany) is now leading the peloton, with Froome, Millar, Wiggins, Stannard and Cavendish lined up on his wheel.

12:16:38 BST Chris Froome has upped the pace slightly on the climb but he is also attempting to maintain a steady tempo, mindful that sharp changes in rhythm would only draw the sting out of Mark Cavendish's legs.

13:04:56 BST There are no British riders in the Nibali group, as expected. Instead, Wiggins, Millar, Stannard and Froome maintained a steadier tempo on the climb and are now attempting to drag Cavendish and the peloton back up to the counter-attack on the flatter sections of the circuit.

15:17:23 BST Chris Froome sits up and swings off from the main peloton.

That's just the mentions of him by name rather than 'the British team' (of which there are many). They span nearly three and a half hours.

I disn't say he did nothing but those were the 5 comments that came up from the discussion on here - I haven't selected them to support my argument they were the only comments on is performance on the spoiler thread of the day.

frenchfighter

^Valverde is not a total wheelsucker. You should watch more racing. You can start with this race where he and Gilbert did the majority of the work.

Your point about Froome v Contador makes no sense especially as I have said nothing about Froome in this thread (in fact it was positive...maybe read it properly).

DeVlaeminck

ugo.santalucia wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

They have lots of options. Cavendish in a sprint, Froome on a mountain, Swift and Geraint on a rolling course.

They have one option only... Cavendish if it's a sprint finish. Swift and Geraint are good domestiques, but they're not world class and Froome is not a puncheur... if he was, then he would stand a chance of winning the Fleche Wallone, but he won't, as there are plenty of riders better than him at doing that.
Given the Worlds is a circuit, there will never be a Mont Ventoux top finish, so it's unlikely Froome will ever wear the rainbow jersey... he's a classy climber and a solid time triallist, perfect for the TdF, but ultimately, unlike Nibali, Rodriguez, Valverde and Contador, he's a one trick pony

I'd still like to see him try, I suspect some steep uphill finishes may suit him better than is sometimes thought. He isn't lacking a kick at the end of mountain top finishes and is the end of a hilly classic with tired legs totally different? I reckon a bigger handicap would be getting to the finish in the front group, staying near the front, making the splits etc than the finish itself.

type:epyt

Don't get the Gerrans crticism other than folks fancied Fab or Nibs for the win in MSR 2012.

He finished with 2 of the peletons fastest descenders and given what we know of the parcours shows skill, speed and racing nouse even just to be in that group far less the winner.

In LBL he was with a BIG group and only won because Martin cornered more like Ricky rather than Dan.

ugo.santalucia

Above The Cows wrote:

Technically TT'ing and climbing is two tricks. And they're pretty good tricks to have if you want to be a GC winner. I'm wondering what all these other tricks are that say Valverde, J-Rod and Contador have apart from Valverde and J-Rod's sprint abilities vis-a-vis other GC riders?

We are talking about Froome's chances of a rainbow jersey... I'd say being able to hold your own in a sprint is a fairly important skill if you aim to wear that jersey... Nibali can attack and finish solo on pretty much any terrain, he has done it many times and occasionally succeded, other times narrowly missed, same for Rodriguez... Valverde is a formidable sprinter, Contador can attack on a steep short climb and leave everyone else there, same as Rodriguez... Froome can do none of the above... he hasn't got a single trick that can bag him the jersey... that's my point

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Technically TT'ing and climbing is two tricks. And they're pretty good tricks to have if you want to be a GC winner. I'm wondering what all these other tricks are that say Valverde, J-Rod and Contador have apart from Valverde and J-Rod's sprint abilities vis-a-vis other GC riders?

We are talking about Froome's chances of a rainbow jersey... I'd say being able to hold your own in a sprint is a fairly important skill if you aim to wear that jersey... Nibali can attack and finish solo on pretty much any terrain, he has done it many times and occasionally succeded, other times narrowly missed, same for Rodriguez... Valverde is a formidable sprinter, Contador can attack on a steep short climb and leave everyone else there, same as Rodriguez... Froome can do none of the above... he hasn't got a single trick that can bag him the jersey... that's my point

Froome has won at least two reduced bunch sprints in the last 2 years. One at the tour this year I think.

iainf72

sjmclean wrote:

Froome has won at least two reduced bunch sprints in the last 2 years. One at the tour this year I think.

Stage 1 : 2014 TdF. This is where everyone started calling him a sprinter

1 Marcel Kittel (Ger) Team Giant-Shimano 4:44:07
2 Peter Sagan (Svk) Cannondale
3 Ramunas Navardauskas (Ltu) Garmin - Sharp
4 Bryan Coquard (Fra) Team Europcar
5 Michael Rogers (Aus) Tinkoff-Saxo
6 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky
7 Alexander Kristoff (Nor) Team Katusha
8 Sep Vanmarcke (Bel) Belkin Pro Cycling
9 José Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa) Movistar Team
10 Michael Albasini (Swi) Orica Greenedge
11 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Trek Factory Racing
12 Paul Voss (Ger) Team Netapp-Endura
13 Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) BMC Racing Team
14 Martin Elmiger (Swi) IAM Cycling
15 Samuel Dumoulin (Fra) AG2R La Mondial

wallace_and_gromit

RichN95 wrote:

Don't forget Eisel and Kiryienka in the Olympic team.

That's a good point. Maybe 2011 was something of a "fluke" rather than a blueprint for what was realistically possible for Cav on a hilly course.

RichN95.

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Don't forget Eisel and Kiryienka in the Olympic team.

That's a good point. Maybe 2011 was something of a "fluke" rather than a blueprint for what was realistically possible for Cav on a hilly course.

They just made bad choices in 2012. Cavendish and others could have followed the moves that made up the final selection but chose not to.

tailwindhome

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/arti ... from-quarq

The Final Push

In the final stretch, Kwiatkowski was being chased by a formidable group looking to catch him on the line. While he was able to coast the final few meters, the last 1.7 kilometers were not a procession for the eventual winner.
• He held an average power of 415 watts
• Kwiatkowski held an average speed was 59.9 km/h (37mph)
• His average heart rate was 179 bpm
• His average cadence was 102 rpm

ugo.santalucia

iainf72 wrote:

sjmclean wrote:

Froome has won at least two reduced bunch sprints in the last 2 years. One at the tour this year I think.

Stage 1 : 2014 TdF. This is where everyone started calling him a sprinter

1 Marcel Kittel (Ger) Team Giant-Shimano 4:44:07
2 Peter Sagan (Svk) Cannondale
3 Ramunas Navardauskas (Ltu) Garmin - Sharp
4 Bryan Coquard (Fra) Team Europcar
5 Michael Rogers (Aus) Tinkoff-Saxo
6 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky
7 Alexander Kristoff (Nor) Team Katusha
8 Sep Vanmarcke (Bel) Belkin Pro Cycling
9 José Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa) Movistar Team
10 Michael Albasini (Swi) Orica Greenedge
11 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Trek Factory Racing
12 Paul Voss (Ger) Team Netapp-Endura
13 Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) BMC Racing Team
14 Martin Elmiger (Swi) IAM Cycling
15 Samuel Dumoulin (Fra) AG2R La Mondial

Meaningless, if we had to go by this, Froome would be a better sprinter than Kristoff and Van Avermaet, among others... and of course Vanmarcke has been beaten by Cancellara in a sprint one to one when it did matter. Valverde has proved over time that he can win a sprint, Froome has not

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

'do no work' Gerrans is greatly admired by you but on the other hand you are now blowing the trumpet of a team that did a huge amount of work to ultimately fail badly?

Those two things obviously do not match.

Unless you are totally Brit-blinkered?

I admire Gerrans because he has maximised his talent. I doubt even he thought he'd retire with two monuments plus stages in the Giro, the Tour and the Vuelta on his palmares. He also works, and hard, but you're oblivious to that for some reason. He has a rare talent which, to use an old cycling expression, he eats everyone else's plate of food before starting on his own. His Orica-GreenEdge team mates, and his national team mates, must appreciate his talent too, because they work hard to set him up.

As for the Team GB approach - they didn't know they were going to 'fail badly' until about 10 kms to go.

I don't see how they 'do not match'. I wasn't saying they did anyway.

oldwelshman

RichN95 wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

So why was Froome selected? Are you really saying he is not strong enough to do what Luke Steve and G did? Not capable to last the distance?

He's there to do a bog standard domestiques job. Just as he did in 2011 and the 2012 Olympics. You need to stop viewing him in a WC context as a star. He's there because GB are short on options and he's willing to help teammates out.

GB had nine riders. And then there were two TT riders who focused on that. Two riders who were injured. So what are they left with? Fenn, Blythe, Edmondson? If he's willing, you'll pick Froome he'll do a specific job very well if needed.

I still fail to see what domestique role he did, I would have stuck Cav and Blythe in I reckon both would have been in the second bunch.

RichN95.

oldwelshman wrote:

I still fail to see what domestique role he did, I would have stuck Cav and Blythe in I reckon both would have been in the second bunch.

Well Cavendish was injured and Blythe has been doing crits all season so I'm not sure he would have been much use. And even if he was there - so what. GB improve to 11th instead of 12th.
Froome does the donkey work in the first 200k - no different to Steve Cummings, for example, and no-one is knocking him. And if you need someone to ride fairly high tempo on the front for an hour or so, Froome can do that. Blythe can't.

specialgueststar

I usually like the in depth analysis - but come on ...it was a race ...Valverde nearly did it , Gilbert played a heroic role for a team mate - Gerrans and Gallopin must have sensed victory but didn't want to bugger it up. Have you ever been in a race with 2 km to go - ( not after 250 km plus in the rain I bet) The decision making process isn't as crystal clear as sat round a PC/mac in a warm room - it's a second by second process based on a large number of changing variables

So Gerrans could have done a big turn ...and come 8th. Gallopin could have sat in and been world champ.....GvA could have attacked sooner ...who knows.

The Polish guy won

tailwindhome

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

The Polish guy won

Here's how https://vimeo.com/cyclingtips/review/10 ... 2470e5169a

specialgueststar

TailWindHome wrote:

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

The Polish guy won

Here's how https://vimeo.com/cyclingtips/review/10 ... 2470e5169a

Gerrans should have done a turn

DeVlaeminck

Watching the last 5 k again on youtube who is the woman co-commentating with Liggett? Eurosport could do worse than sign her up if she's available, I'm guessing she's a current rider though.

As for the race the chase group don't really have a gap going over the top there must have been a few riders just eased up because when it cuts back there is a 50-100 metre gap. Gallopin seems to be willing to work, Valverde maybe, it shows Gerrans peeling off the front but not whether he did a turn while there. It's the descending skills/risk taking of Kwiatkowski that really wins it isn't it. It needed a Sean Kelly Poggio style descent when he caught Argentin - he who dares wins or ends up sliding down the road at 50 mph wearing lycra.

RichN95.

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Watching the last 5 k again on youtube who is the woman co-commentating with Liggett? Eurosport could do worse than sign her up if she's available, I'm guessing she's a current rider though.

Jose Been. She's a Dutch journalist. You may have seen her presenting the Women's Tour on ITV4 with Ned Boulting. She does work for Eurosport - just not in English.

tailwindhome

RichN95 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Watching the last 5 k again on youtube who is the woman co-commentating with Liggett? Eurosport could do worse than sign her up if she's available, I'm guessing she's a current rider though.

Jose Been. She's a Dutch journalist. You may have seen her presenting the Women's Tour on ITV4 with Ned Boulting. She does work for Eurosport - just not in English.

Is she @TourdeJose?

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

Is she @TourdeJose?

Yes.

frenchfighter

Cosmo:
http://cyclocosm.com/2014/10/how-the-ra ... hips-2014/

pinno

frenchfighter wrote:

Cosmo:
http://cyclocosm.com/2014/10/how-the-ra ... hips-2014/

I enjoyed that. Pretty succinct, spot on whilst cramming more into 4mins 43 secs than Paul Sherwen has in a lifetime of commentary.

specialgueststar

pinarello001 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Cosmo:
http://cyclocosm.com/2014/10/how-the-ra ... hips-2014/

I enjoyed that. Pretty succinct, spot on whilst cramming more into 4mins 43 secs than Paul Sherwen has in a lifetime of commentary.

he's only trying to do a job of work

Le Commentateur

RichN95 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Watching the last 5 k again on youtube who is the woman co-commentating with Liggett? Eurosport could do worse than sign her up if she's available, I'm guessing she's a current rider though.

Jose Been. She's a Dutch journalist. You may have seen her presenting the Women's Tour on ITV4 with Ned Boulting. She does work for Eurosport - just not in English.

She has a twitter account, can be good for breaking news. @TourDeJose

frenchfighter

In the car of the Polish DS. He spends most of the video driving with his knees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd0zU0lklPs

Daz555

frenchfighter wrote:

In the car of the Polish DS. He spends most of the video driving with his knees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd0zU0lklPs

With twats like that driving, I think I'll be standing further back next time I'm roadside. :shock: