New orange Segment

poah

updated version the gyro @ 2.5k

pro version 3.9k and comes with mavic 319 rims

can orange really not design anything new at all

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/segment_s/

rockmonkeysc

Some of the extras are ridiculous.
You can downgrade to a rubbish Fox CTD evo shock for an extra £100. A change of tyres to Minions for £60! Most of the upgrades seem to change the full price of the optional part but they don't take off the cost of the original part.

CitizenLee

POAH wrote:

can orange really not design anything new at all

As long as there are fat middle age men with more money than sense then why would they have to design anything new?

What a shite looking bike.

russyh

I'm a big orange fan, but I don't get this bike.

ilovedirt

The gyro is 29er already...
It's a gyro with slightly tweaked geo.

benpinnick

The pricing does seem a bit whack - £130 for XT brake upgrade? XT brakes cost £130 (from some retailers)!

poah

ilovedirt wrote:

The gyro is 29er already...
It's a gyro with slightly tweaked geo.

so slightly longer top tube and shorter stem then ala mondraker

rockmonkeysc

To be honest I can understand why Orange don't drop their prices. If they're shifting enough units at current prices then why would the drop them?
Their profit margins on bikes must be huge.

poah

probably not as they are "built in the UK"

rockmonkeysc

POAH wrote:

probably not as they are "built in the UK"

But being built in a shed using tooling that was paid off decades ago and designed by an engineer who works two days a year on new designs should work out pretty cheap.
Far east manufacturing costs are starting to rise compared to UK manufacturing.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

POAH wrote:

probably not as they are "built in the UK"

But being built in a shed using tooling that was paid off decades ago and designed by an engineer who works two days a year on new designs should work out pretty cheap.

But probably still not as cheap as having them built by slave labour.

supersonic

Yes, they don't pay much in Halifax anymore.

lawman

Just a slightly revised Gyro, hardly anything special. The whole Orange "made in UK" will appeal to some, but it's not for me. I've ridden a few Orange's and every time I just thought meh... If they were cheaper they might be a slightly better deal, but the prices are just silly for what you get.

rockmonkeysc

supersonic wrote:

Yes, they don't pay much in Halifax anymore.

Half a crown a week plus a new flat cap at Christmas.

russyh

Must resist getting involved in a debate.....ahh, I agree orange bikes are expensive, but they are selling bucket loads so they must be getting something right! It's also important to remember that what one person perceives as good value is different to the next man. I ride a five because it's simply the most fun I have had on a bike, it works for me but I appreciate that it's not for everyone, I certainly wouldn't poke fun at someone because they paid what I deem to be over the odds. I value the fact that the bikes are made in the uk, I like the rugged styling, I like the brand and more importantly I like how they ride. Sure for the amount I spent on my five I could of bought something faster, but I don't race. I ride a bike which makes me smile every time I throw a leg over it. Something I struggled with on my canyon, lapierre, covert etc.

poah

Russyh wrote:

, but they are selling bucket loads so they must be getting something right! It's also important to remember that what one person perceives as good value is different to the next man.

marketing.

russyh

POAH wrote:

Russyh wrote:

, but they are selling bucket loads so they must be getting something right! It's also important to remember that what one person perceives as good value is different to the next man.

marketing.

With respect that's a weak argument. The price is subject to people's perception of value. Like I say what I see as value for money may be different to the next person. That's life I'm afraid, you and others may not like it but it's how modern developed consumer economy's work. If the product was bad value to the majority of it's competing market place then it and the business would fail. Like I say must be doing something right!

IDave

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned single pivot suspension or old scaffolding poles yet...

Angus Young

Russyh wrote:

POAH wrote:

Russyh wrote:

, but they are selling bucket loads so they must be getting something right! It's also important to remember that what one person perceives as good value is different to the next man.

marketing.

With respect that's a weak argument.

Seems to be the standard fall back when mountain bikers don't like something.

welshkev

Angus Young wrote:

Russyh wrote:

POAH wrote:

Russyh wrote:

, but they are selling bucket loads so they must be getting something right! It's also important to remember that what one person perceives as good value is different to the next man.

marketing.

With respect that's a weak argument.

Seems to be the standard fall back when mountain bikers don't like something.

like 29ers?

supersonic

Orange have a niche in the market place and fill it well - handmade, British built bikes (well some models). This is a large appeal to many buyers.

CitizenLee

"Marketing" is somewhat of a true statement in this case though, as generally speaking only a certain demographic buy Orange bikes. Emphasis on generally.

Also, perceived value is all very well, but comparing spec for spec to similar bikes then there is no value for money with Orange, none... and that's not down to perception or opinion, it's cold hard fact.

Each to their own though

russyh

Rubbish, In terms of spec vs spec, then yes you can see that Orange would be poor value. However when you buy a product its the overall package that determines the overall value. Otherwise we would all ride Canyons and drive Kias. Also Generally is such a loose terms, i would say generally speaking Orange Bikes are ridden by the same demographic as most other mountain bike brands. Orange are clever in how they market and have built up a stong brand identity, but i would say their marketing and advertising budgets are not bigger or better spent then other brands.

Supersonic is right, its a niche product. It fits a market space in which people who see value on a more broad spectrum than just what a spec sheet says. You cant argue with it as its a fact. orange sell plenty of bikes because of it, despite this forums complete disdain for the brand.

Like i said before everyone has very different factors which determine what they perceive as value. in short for me the benefits and features of owning my Five, out weigh the price. i am guessing that you have different value criteria Citizenlee?? Maybe Stickers are more important for you hence the mega?

CitizenLee

So, good marketing then

As for my Mega, yes... stickers were indeed the main deciding factor when deciding weather to buy the frame, but sadly they all fell off somehow and now I'm left with some horrible looking thing that no one can tell what it is. Damn

In all seriousness, I really don't care what anyone thinks about my bike and people can say whatever they want about it, good or bad. I'm happy with it and that's all that matters... likewise, if you're happy with your Five then who cares what the rest of the internet thinks

rockmonkeysc

The quality and design of a bikes frame has to be considered as part of determining whether or not it's good value.
Some people love the way the Five rides and there aren't to many other bikes which ride the same (not all single pivots ride the same). That may be worth more to some people than having the latest model of fork which has a new feature they won't use.
Personally I won't buy one because I rode one and although I can't say it was bad there were other bikes I liked more but I would buy one over some Canyon models because I really don't like they're vey linear suspension, other people do like that though. There's a lot of personal preference involved.

ilovedirt

CitizenLee wrote:

"Marketing" is somewhat of a true statement in this case though, as generally speaking only a certain demographic buy Orange bikes. Emphasis on generally.

Also, perceived value is all very well, but comparing spec for spec to similar bikes then there is no value for money with Orange, none... and that's not down to perception or opinion, it's cold hard fact.

Each to their own though

You could stick the same spec on an Apollo, doesn't make it a good bike!!

russyh

CitizenLee wrote:

So, good marketing then

As for my Mega, yes... stickers were indeed the main deciding factor when deciding weather to buy the frame, but sadly they all fell off somehow and now I'm left with some horrible looking thing that no one can tell what it is. Damn

In all seriousness, I really don't care what anyone thinks about my bike and people can say whatever they want about it, good or bad. I'm happy with it and that's all that matters... likewise, if you're happy with your Five then who cares what the rest of the internet thinks

I was only joking about the mega mate, they are very good bikes and have sold in droves (check out the your MTb section on here!!!!WOW)
But you have agreed with my point really, if people are happy with their purchase then the value has met their perception. I am chuffed with my Orange, i know that i could of got a bike with a much, MUCH better spec. But it wouldnt of ridden the same, it wouldnt of ticked my boxes. We are all different, like i have said before, we all like different things. Which is a good thing variety is the spice of life!

russyh

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The quality and design of a bikes frame has to be considered as part of determining whether or not it's good value.
Some people love the way the Five rides and there aren't to many other bikes which ride the same (not all single pivots ride the same). That may be worth more to some people than having the latest model of fork which has a new feature they won't use.
Personally I won't buy one because I rode one and although I can't say it was bad there were other bikes I liked more but I would buy one over some Canyon models because I really don't like they're vey linear suspension, other people do like that though. There's a lot of personal preference involved.

Bingo, exactly what i'm trying to say. I love how the five rides, its like nothing else. I appreciate its not everyones cup of tea. But for me its worth paying extra for...I suspect some of the people that write disparaging comments about Orange value for money have not even ridden a Five (sure they will say they have for internet bravado and one-upmanship, but i doubt it) Agree with you about the Canyons as well Rockmonkey. Great value if you buy off a spec sheet but i couldn't not get on with my Nerve AM

CitizenLee

Russyh wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

So, good marketing then

As for my Mega, yes... stickers were indeed the main deciding factor when deciding weather to buy the frame, but sadly they all fell off somehow and now I'm left with some horrible looking thing that no one can tell what it is. Damn

In all seriousness, I really don't care what anyone thinks about my bike and people can say whatever they want about it, good or bad. I'm happy with it and that's all that matters... likewise, if you're happy with your Five then who cares what the rest of the internet thinks

I was only joking about the mega mate, they are very good bikes and have sold in droves (check out the your MTb section on here!!!!WOW)
But you have agreed with my point really, if people are happy with their purchase then the value has met their perception. I am chuffed with my Orange, i know that i could have got a bike with a much, MUCH better spec. But it wouldnt of ridden the same, it wouldnt of ticked my boxes. We are all different, like i have said before, we all like different things. Which is a good thing variety is the spice of life!

Yup, the Your MTB Section is like a big sweaty NukeProof love-in these days

I'll admit to having never ridden a Five so can't comment in how they ride, in fact I wasn't anyway, but in my defence I've ridden a good few 223, 224s, a Patriot and few old Clockworks... and would have given my left nut for a nickel P7 as a kid.

I think as an Orange owner you just have to roll with the punches on here

supersonic

Obviously you need to get the geometry and rear sus feel to your taste. But often the way a bike rides and feels is to do with the parts too. If the bike is lumbered with a basic Fox fork, heavy tyres and wheels and crap brakes, it can destroy that feel.

Obviously with Orange you have a degree of customisation - but they are expensive, and the top end wheels are base level Mavic rims. A bit more thought here wouldn't go amiss.

russyh

I dont disagree with that Supersonic, like i said earlier (and aware i am in the middle of the 'Orange Haters' den when trying to defend the brand on here) i agree that in terms of spec sheet comparison the five is not great value, frankly its poor when compared to other options. My argument is more around how we define value and the fact the key performance indicators around 'value' for one person are different to another. I have spent a fair amount of money making my five personal to me, in terms of how it looks and how its set up. But i wouldn't swap it for anything other than another five.