Training for the 2015 Marmotte

ilav84

I put this in the other marmotte thread but might be useful for some here as well.

Went up Teide, 67 mile with about 40 of it just a constant climb. I found it very tough! Absolutely relentless. I've never experienced that sort of constant climbing before. Gradient wasn't a problem it was the length that killed me. I know now more than ever that if I am to finish la marmotte then I need to do some serious work and lose about 2 stone. What a great day out on the bike though. Orica, Saxo and Katusha all passed us. Nibali is in Tenerife at the moment as well, hopefully I will drop him on wednesday when I do it all again from the other side haha

I was starving for the last 10 mile, one of the fellas I was sticking with was hungry from about the 20 mile mark. He ended up in the broom wagon with 5k from the top. Devastating for him. I learned loads from the experience though:
- I need to eat more while on the climb. I was like a different man when I got some food and coke into me at the top.
- I will definitely be going for 50 34 and 11-32 gear ratio for La Marmotte!
- I am a pussy while descending, although I was still going near 40mph at times. Some of the others were just diving into corners and flying down the mountain.
- I need to shift a good stone and half at least. Carrying that weight up a long climb will soon wear you out!
- I need more climbing miles in the legs. I would go ride 80-100 mile tomorrow at an average of about 18mph but this was totally different than I have ever done. Don't know how you could prepare for that at home though.
- Pros are amazing! I don't know how they do that for their job. Bound to be easier ways of making money than that.
- The guide was a semi pro who rides a Wilier zero 7. I now want that bike as well as a Colnago C60 Italia.

A great experience and a massive wake up call for La Marmotte.

hypster

EmmaF wrote:

Thanks for the good advice on here. I am female, 34, and I did a fair bit in 2014 including the Mallorca 312 and the Maratona dles Dolomites, and a crazy sportive in Wales called The Monster (190km with lots of over 25% gradients). I have entry for the Marmotte this year. I'd like to do it in a respectable time... (not sure what a good aim is really?? lol).The concern I have is that on my Trek Madone apparently I can't change the cassette because it is an 11 speed dura ace. Obviously I did all of the stuff last year with the compact it came with, but I did find the Passo Giau hard going and I guess I could do better if I had lower gears. Do you guys think it's worth looking into changing the set up altogether to get lower gears for the Marmotte or do you think just working on power and reducing body weight will be enough? (if it helps my ideal cycling weight is around 61kg, at the moment I'm probably more like 65 after xmas...)

You say "I could do better if I had lower gears" but that's not necessarily the case. What you need to ascertain is what is your comfortable cadence for the sort of gradients (8-10%) that you will be encountering on the Marmotte and gear accordingly. Lower gears may increase your cadence but actually make you slower on any given gradient. You don't say what gearing you have but at your weight and age I would be surprised if you need lower than 34-28 for the Marmotte. What you need to do is practice on a long 8-10% hill in this country and find what sort of gearing you would be happy pedalling in for an hour or more. You may still want one lower gear as a reserve just in case you feel you need it on the day for any reason.

To give you some idea, my daughter did it with me last year. She is about your weight but is a bit older at 42. She had 34-32 gearing on but got round mainly on 34-28 and she uses a high-ish cadence. I think she may have used the 34-32 on the lower part of l'Alpe d'Huez, which is probably the most arduous section of the whole ride considering how steep it is and what comes before it. She got a silver medal by the way and could have achieved gold if she wasn't hanging around for me earlier on!

I am 59 years old by the way and weighed 80 kg for the Marmotte last year. I used a triple chainset and was mainly in 30-28 but used 30-32 on the Alpe. I am a bit of a grinder as well as I feel happier using lower cadences.

Barbarossa

EmmaF wrote:

Thanks for the good advice on here. I am female, 34, and I did a fair bit in 2014 including the Mallorca 312 and the Maratona dles Dolomites, and a crazy sportive in Wales called The Monster (190km with lots of over 25% gradients). I have entry for the Marmotte this year. I'd like to do it in a respectable time... (not sure what a good aim is really?? lol).The concern I have is that on my Trek Madone apparently I can't change the cassette because it is an 11 speed dura ace. Obviously I did all of the stuff last year with the compact it came with, but I did find the Passo Giau hard going and I guess I could do better if I had lower gears. Do you guys think it's worth looking into changing the set up altogether to get lower gears for the Marmotte or do you think just working on power and reducing body weight will be enough? (if it helps my ideal cycling weight is around 61kg, at the moment I'm probably more like 65 after xmas...)

I've done the Maratona a few times. Giau is a killer - for those who don't know, it is a 950m climb in 10km, constant 9.5%, it comes after you have already climbed 2500m. I had a 32-34 bottom gear for the first time last year and was glad of it.

I have a new bike with Dura Ace this year, but will be fitting an Ultegra medium cage rear mech and 11-32 cassette for the Maratona.

bahzob

Done lots of posts on this in the past, search should find them. In a nutshell
- Get a route profile and study it. You can use it to break the event down into manageable sections
> Glandon is not non stop, it has some flat sections and even one 10% descent into a V valley. For this make sure you are in climbing gear, it goes straight up at the bottom.
> Telegraph is pretty constant throughout
> Galibier is actually 2 hardish sections with 2 shortish flatish sections then one final long pull to the top. This last section is the hardest so save something and if you like gels use one in the flatish section beforehand
> Alpe: Bottom 2km are the hardest. Once they are done that's the worst over. Just count the hairpins to the end.
- Long mountain climbs are about constant managed power. The best training for them in the UK is riding time trials or doing long turbo sessions.
-Short hills are useful for raising your VO2 but not for pacing mountain climbs. You should never ever go into the red.
- Get gearing right. You should be climbing at the same cadence you are training. Fit as many gears as you can, there is no downside to having too many gears but not having enough will be a showstopper
- Eat and drink sensibly. Little and often is best.
- The descent from the Glandon is not timed so you can recover all you like at the top
- Find a big group for valley link between to the Telegraph and go as easy as you can.
- If you haven't done a big ride like this, or even if you have, get a bike fit.
- Don't be tempted to make any last minute changes to your bike
- Travel to the event usually means you will "taper" anyway. So try to get some miles in the week beforehand, just an hour or so each day at your climbing pace.
- There's no benefit I can see of going with a tour company. The event is easy to enter, get to and there is lots of accommodation in the area, even if you leave booking to the last minute (which you shouldn't ofc)
- Have fun.

EmmaF

ilav84 wrote:

Went up Teide, 67 mile with about 40 of it just a constant climb. I found it very tough! Absolutely relentless. I've never experienced that sort of constant climbing before. Gradient wasn't a problem it was the length that killed me. I know now more than ever that if I am to finish la marmotte then I need to do some serious work and lose about 2 stone. What a great day out on the bike though.

I did a week in Tenerife as well in March - absolutely brilliant! I loved it. I would highly recommend as a training destination, although it will probably start getting a bit too hot soon.
We did Tiede twice, the first time we descended the same (main) way and the second we went down the other way (the road is terrible, terrible volcanic broken up rubble pretty much but I still loved it!). We always stopped in Vilaflor for a burger and chips before continuing up though so I didn't have the lack of food problem! Haha! (Having said that, from past mountainous experiences, I would say that learning to eat and drink properly on the bike while you're climbing is pretty useful). That week I rode 5 days and did 500km and over 10000km climbing.... it was great! I had a rental bike but it had the same gearing as my bike, and I just went really steady, about 8kph average up which seems really slow but I think was about right for training ride. If all goes to plan, for the actual Marmotte I'll be fitter and leaner so will be faster (hopefully!!)! In the meantime I have the Mallorca 312 in less than 2 weeks so hopefully it will have been useful for that as well
Oh - more advice - practice descending on whatever you can. It's no fun being terrified and braking the whole way down, nor is it very good for your rims. Also the stiffer you are the more likely you will be to skid out. Relax, go into the drops, drop your elbow to turn rather than turning the handlebars, push your butt back and use it to counterbalance and if you need to slow drop your weight back as much as possible. Also, if you are nervous and slow try and keep right and hold your line, to let the faster people overtake safely.

Dodger747

Tenerife is fantastic for training. Was there in March last year and going in May. I expect it to be very warm so good training for when I ride in the Dolomites in September! Tiede is rather unique for it's sheer length, it also has an amazing plateau to look over at the top. I agree the surface across the joining road at the top and on one side of the descent is horrible!

I think Gran Canaria is a harder island to cycle on however, viciously steep climbs and no-where is flat!

FatTed

Emma. hopefully it was only 10,000 m of ascent!
sounds fun.

elbowloh

EmmaF wrote:

ilav84 wrote:

Went up Teide, 67 mile with about 40 of it just a constant climb. I found it very tough! Absolutely relentless. I've never experienced that sort of constant climbing before. Gradient wasn't a problem it was the length that killed me. I know now more than ever that if I am to finish la marmotte then I need to do some serious work and lose about 2 stone. What a great day out on the bike though.

I did a week in Tenerife as well in March - absolutely brilliant! I loved it. I would highly recommend as a training destination, although it will probably start getting a bit too hot soon.
We did Tiede twice, the first time we descended the same (main) way and the second we went down the other way (the road is terrible, terrible volcanic broken up rubble pretty much but I still loved it!). We always stopped in Vilaflor for a burger and chips before continuing up though so I didn't have the lack of food problem! Haha! (Having said that, from past mountainous experiences, I would say that learning to eat and drink properly on the bike while you're climbing is pretty useful). That week I rode 5 days and did 500km and over 10000km climbing.... it was great! I had a rental bike but it had the same gearing as my bike, and I just went really steady, about 8kph average up which seems really slow but I think was about right for training ride. If all goes to plan, for the actual Marmotte I'll be fitter and leaner so will be faster (hopefully!!)! In the meantime I have the Mallorca 312 in less than 2 weeks so hopefully it will have been useful for that as well
Oh - more advice - practice descending on whatever you can. It's no fun being terrified and braking the whole way down, nor is it very good for your rims. Also the stiffer you are the more likely you will be to skid out. Relax, go into the drops, drop your elbow to turn rather than turning the handlebars, push your butt back and use it to counterbalance and if you need to slow drop your weight back as much as possible. Also, if you are nervous and slow try and keep right and hold your line, to let the faster people overtake safely.

Hi Emma

You didn't mention the Chilterns sportive ride we did last year, so much more epic than Maratona....

Was on here looking for training tips for Etape!

Eric

EmmaF

Hehe, sorry Eric, you're right, it was pretty damn epic. Especially the monsoon conditions.... I

ilav84

Nearly 130km (lap of lough neagh) done yesterday with nearly 4000ft of climbing and just over 170km done today with 7000 odd ft of climbing around the mournes (County Down). I was feeling ok at the end but my legs were very tired! Im feeling completely bollixed now though, lying in bed and can hardly move. Going to take a good rest for a few days, struggling with saddle sores as well ffs. A great day for cycling all the same, really enjoyed it.

Good news is I have lost a bit of weight below 14 stone for first time in a few years. Hopefully another half a stone to come off over the next month.

Hope your training is going well lads.

ilav84

New route for La Marmotte being announced next week! Road works on the decent of Galibier that won't be finished until mid July.

fatdaz

I trained for last year's Etape entirely in the UK with a lot of my riding being on the flat. I did 1 or 2 long (80 - 160km) rides at the weekend and a couple of 30-50km rides midweek. I did as much hilly stuff as I could in the Cotswolds, the Surrey Hills and the Wiggle tour of the Peaks but most of my riding was, by necessity, pretty flat. To get around this I did most of my training with a power meter. I used online tools and smartphone apps to work out what power output I needed to sustain to get up Tourmalet and Hautacam in the time I wanted and ensured that I trained at 10-15% more power than that for the required time periods irrespective of the terrain I was riding on. We got to the Pyrenees a few days early and did a couple of practice climbs (Col de L'Aspin and Col de Peyresourde) in the days before to see what mountains felt like. Before those rides I'd never ridden any mountain but I was amazed at the confidence I got from knowing that I could generate the power I needed for the duration required. I was pleasantly surprised that the Etape didn't feel any different to my training rides - apart from the view, the weather and the exhilaration. I'd second all of the folks saying just ride at a sustained output for long periods - if there are no hills and no wind just ride faster

CrazyRider

There are many very useful information for my training : )

EmmaF

fatdaz wrote:

I used online tools and smartphone apps to work out what power output I needed to sustain to get up Tourmalet and Hautacam in the time I wanted and ensured that I trained at 10-15% more power than that for the required time periods irrespective of the terrain I was riding on.

I'm looking into getting a power meter - which would you recommend? And also which websites and apps did you use to find the power output you needed?

fatdaz

I'm not sure I'm in a position to recommend a power meter as I've only ever used one. I use Stages and it's been exactly what I needed but I'm aware that there are plenty of people who'll say Stages are brilliant and plenty of others who'll say they are crap because X, Y and Z. All I wanted was something that would consistently report my power output and Stages has done that perfectly well for me. I did suffer from battery drain issues after upgrading firmware (Google it if you are interested in Stages) but it was cured by updating firmware to the latest. Personally I am very happy with Stages and it has improved the quality of my training but I've never used any other power meter so it's not a comparitive recommendation. Regarding apps I think I settled on Bike Calculator for calculating power requirements - fill in details of you and the bike, the ride you want to do and the time you want to complete it in and it gives you the average power you'll need to generate. I trained on whatever routes I could using those power levels as a benchmark irrespective of terrain.

EmmaF

Thanks Fatdaz, that's really useful. I will look at Stages, and also a friend has recommended Power2Max. The other option is the Garmin one but I think that is way more expensive. I think whatever I get as long as it measures consistently will be the main thing, because you are mainly comparing yourself to yourself...

FatTed

Emma
check out DC Rainmaker
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews/power-meters
I have a Quarq, been good for me, not had any other types.
Essential to have a good warranty and back up, since they do go wrong.