Training for the 2015 Marmotte

Izoard

Hi all,

In addition to the constructive advice already given, you may consider setting up a turbo specifically for simulating climbing at 10% for 1-1½ hrs, as this is essentially what the Marmotte consists of, X4. Use a 6-8" block under the front wheel for inclination as you will need to get settled into your uphill position, then set a fairly high resistance depending on how you like to climb. I have trained by pushing a big gear at high resistance with a cadence of around 50, maintaining this for up to 1 hr, then drop the front and spin easy for 40 mins or so, then repeat with tilt for another hr.

This can be done closer to next summer, say in the spring time to build stamina and strength. Nothing beats the real thing, but I find this a useful addition to road miles.

twotyred

Good suggestion especially if done after a 2-3 hour road ride so you start already fatigued although if you habitually climb at 50rpm I suggest you need to gear down so you can climb at a more efficient cadence- something like 75-85 rpm.

dw300

ilav84 wrote:

Great advice in this thread. Anyone here from N.Ireland that knows some good climbs to use as training for the marmotte?

Climb to the former security base at the top of Divis from the roundabout at Stockman's lane, via Monagh Bypass, Upper Springfield Road, and Divis Road, then through the National Trust area.

The final few hundred meters is about 10% and you've been going about half an hour at that point. Overall its 6 miles at 4.5%, its about the longest climb you'll find thats more or less all upwards, outside the Mournes.

Just do it about 8 times..

meanredspider

One way of simulating the big climbs a bit closer is to do it on a heavy bike and/or MTB

There's a climb I did up to a windfarm near me (in the Scottish Highlands) up a fire road (off-road surface) on an MTB - it's the best part of an hour climbing and finished with a 20% section just to kill you off. The lower speeds, increased weight and increased resistance, it was the closest I came across to The Alpe before I actually did it.

ilav84

dw300 wrote:

ilav84 wrote:

Great advice in this thread. Anyone here from N.Ireland that knows some good climbs to use as training for the marmotte?

Climb to the former security base at the top of Divis from the roundabout at Stockman's lane, via Monagh Bypass, Upper Springfield Road, and Divis Road, then through the National Trust area.

The final few hundred meters is about 10% and you've been going about half an hour at that point. Overall its 6 miles at 4.5%, its about the longest climb you'll find thats more or less all upwards, outside the Mournes.

Just do it about 8 times..

I've been going from Lurgan direction, through Glenavy and up Dundrod to the Divis Climb. It has a stretch of about 7 or 8 mile where most of it is climbing. Surely the final bit of climbing at the top of divis is more than 10%. Bit annoying having to get off and open the gates, plus people walking with dogs makes it a bit dangerous near the end. I must try the other direction you are talking about. I like the Spelga Dam climb as well, it is a couple mile at least. I suppose I could do a few hill repeats there.

nicklong

Support everything above re: sustained efforts. However, losing weight is probably something that you can start doing now. I wasn't large by any stretch but I went from 73kg to 66kg and looking at my times up a local 6% 2.1km climb, my speed has shot up and more importantly heart rate has shot down.

I didn't really do anything special to lose weight other than lots of long rides and Sufferfest sessions, as well as a few road races. I finished my first Marmotte this year in 8 hours flat, 13 mins within the Gold time.

Aiming for 7:30 next year!

Barbarossa

The best training you can do is a 25 mile time trial! For added authenticity, do it 1 or 2 gears higher than you feel comfortable in. Alpine climbs are all about finding a pace that you can sustain for 1 to 1.5 hours.

ilav84

Anyone got any training plans for Marmotte?

hypster

ilav84 wrote:

Anyone got any training plans for Marmotte?

You need to be be more specific with respect to you goal (i.e. finish or get a Gold medal), age, weight, fitness etc, etc.

bahzob

hypster wrote:

ilav84 wrote:

Anyone got any training plans for Marmotte?

You need to be be more specific with respect to you goal (i.e. finish or get a Gold medal), age, weight, fitness etc, etc.

Excellent advice. First thing any plan should capture is what its end objective is. There will be a world of difference between a plan to just finish and a plan to finish top 5%.

This far ahead of the event the only 2 pieces of advice I would offer are:
- Excess weight will make the event much tougher. If your BMI is outside the normal range then first priority is establish a diet that will lose some pounds. Now is the best time to do this as you can prioritise dieting over training hard and come up with something that works for you ahead of the Xmas bingefest.
- Get a bike fit. Long distance events like the Marmotte will accentuate any issues with bike setup. There is a double whammy: The duration/difficulty can turn a minor niggle into serious pain over the course of many hours. It also means you cycle less efficiently so for the same effort you go slower. Put the two together and you can end up in a vicious circle where pain makes you cycle slower and the climbs are harder so the pain goes up and lasts longer, repeat..
The person doing the fit should ask you what you are training for (if they don't try elsewhere). If you tell them its the Marmotte then they should advise on set-up for long climbs which is different from riding on the flat and should include gearing. If they advise you to get more gears then fit them, even if they don't I'd still fit the lowest gears your bike can take. Much of the benefit of any training is lost if you do it at 80rpm but actually climb at less than 50.

ilav84

hypster wrote:

ilav84 wrote:

Anyone got any training plans for Marmotte?

You need to be be more specific with respect to you goal (i.e. finish or get a Gold medal), age, weight, fitness etc, etc.

Very true. Sorry that was a very broad post!
Basically I would just love to finish in the most enjoyable way. What I mean by that is that I would rather get a slower time and have enjoyed the experience rather than try go for a great time and not take in the scenery and also find it a complete slog (although I'm sure it will be anyway).

I have just turned 30 and reasonably fit. I can cycle along at 19/20mph average for 30 or 40 mile no problem and I enjoy hills and the bumps we have over here in Ireland.

At the minute I am sitting at around 93kg! I played gaelic football all my life but have sustained a few injuries this last couple years so I am thinking of just sticking to the bike full time now. So I have need to be 93kgs anymore, though I have a naturally bulky rugby player type build. I would love to get down to 80kgs. My training load is quite good but a eat a lot of crap as well. So I know i need to cut down on the sugary stuff and take aways at the weekend.

ilav84

bahzob wrote:

hypster wrote:

ilav84 wrote:

Anyone got any training plans for Marmotte?

You need to be be more specific with respect to you goal (i.e. finish or get a Gold medal), age, weight, fitness etc, etc.

Excellent advice. First thing any plan should capture is what its end objective is. There will be a world of difference between a plan to just finish and a plan to finish top 5%.

This far ahead of the event the only 2 pieces of advice I would offer are:
- Excess weight will make the event much tougher. If your BMI is outside the normal range then first priority is establish a diet that will lose some pounds. Now is the best time to do this as you can prioritise dieting over training hard and come up with something that works for you ahead of the Xmas bingefest.
- Get a bike fit. Long distance events like the Marmotte will accentuate any issues with bike setup. There is a double whammy: The duration/difficulty can turn a minor niggle into serious pain over the course of many hours. It also means you cycle less efficiently so for the same effort you go slower. Put the two together and you can end up in a vicious circle where pain makes you cycle slower and the climbs are harder so the pain goes up and lasts longer, repeat..
The person doing the fit should ask you what you are training for (if they don't try elsewhere). If you tell them its the Marmotte then they should advise on set-up for long climbs which is different from riding on the flat and should include gearing. If they advise you to get more gears then fit them, even if they don't I'd still fit the lowest gears your bike can take. Much of the benefit of any training is lost if you do it at 80rpm but actually climb at less than 50.

Cheers, great advice with the bike fit! I have been talking about getting one for ages and this is the post that has made me book in for a proper fit! I really need to lose weight for this otherwise there is no point in taking part. I would love to be rich and get someone to have all my meals prepared for me when i get home I have a 11/28 ultegra on my bianchi sempre pro but would love to get a triple for the marmotte! What sort of gear ratio would u recommend?

hypster

There are a lot of things to consider when entering an event like the Marmotte. At this point I wouldn't worry too much about starting serious training. The nights are closing in now and before you know it it will be Winter! I would say for the moment just concentrate on trying to keep a decent base level of fitness and also try and do something about your diet. On the training front it might be useful to get a turbo trainer if you haven't already got one for those bad weather days when you just can't get out. It will also come in useful for things like interval training later on when you start your training in earnest.

Don't be too obsessed with losing weight at the moment but try to modify the worst of your eating habits. Basic things like cutting out as many sugary products as possible and try and increase the fresh meals you prepare yourself rather than relying on take-aways and ready meals. Increasing protein intake like chicken and fish will also tend to fill you up for longer, help recovery and help prevent snacking.

Assuming you have gained entry to the Marmotte (which for me was around 5th November last year), then you can start to compile a training plan for the New Year which will give you six months to prepare for the big day. I would also suggest you read some of the other threads about the Marmotte such as this one:

viewtopic.php?f=40007&t=12946684

You might find this site useful as well:

http://www.centurytraining.com/training ... -marmotte/

If you Google "Marmotte guide pdf" you shoud also hit a link to download a pdf file of useful information about the Marmotte as well.

I would be happy to help with further suggestions about training in the New Year if you manage to get in the the event.

DeVlaeminck

If you can get to 80kgs and train seriously a gold time should be doable. If the aim is just to finish and enjoy it obviously the fitter you get more you can enjoy the scenery! Just finishing in say sub 10 hours is a given for any young bloke who takes trains for it.

My advice though would be take it seriously and push yourself - you can ride the mountains at an easy pace in the week leading up to it - the day itself should be for seeing what you have in the tank. That's the fun of the event - otherwise you may as well the route any time and stop off at the various cafes for refreshments - make a much more pleasant day out.

wallace_and_gromit

My observations based on 3 Marmottes:

1 - Don't turn up the weekend before hoping to acclimatise to the heat. Acclimatisation takes longer than a week (2-3 week?) so you need to do this at home. Turboing in the garage with the doors and windows shut and a heater on in weeks "-3" and "-2" is painful but seems very effective, though apparently is acclimation rather than acclimatisation. (Rest/travel in week "-1"; race at "Time 0").

2 - If worried about drinking enough, fit a triathlon double cage to your saddle. You'll lose a bit uphill carrying 4 bottles rather than 2, but not as much as if you get dehydrated.

3 - Find your own nutrition strategy. Some can get round on jellybabies. Others, such as myself, need to eat a lot of flapjacks and sandwiches to make it round. Eat to a fixed schedule, so you don't forget.

4 - You might not enjoy them (I never did!) but you will feel the benefit of 60-90 minute sessions in a big gear at a lowish cadence on the turbo. The Glandon and the Telegraphe basically feel like such turbo work, albeit with better scenery.

5 - However well you've paced yourself, the first 3k up Alpe D'Huez will be horrible due to the gradient and "cafe legs" after the long descent, but the feeling will pass.

6 - Fit the lowest gears you can get hold of. No-one ever complains at having had too low a gear as they sup their post Marmotte "1664". Plenty complain at not having a low enough gear, though.

7 - Don't go on the front by choice until you crest the rise just before the finish. There's always someone nearby ignoring this advice who you can wheelsuck!

8 - Practice taking your sunnies off and not dropping them when going downhill at speed. The first tunnel down from the Lauteret is usually hub-deep in dropped Oakleys...:)

manxshred

Or, don't take yor sunnies off, but push them down your nose and look over the top. Much safer and quicker.

wallace_and_gromit

ManxShred wrote:

Or, don't take yor sunnies off, but push them down your nose and look over the top. Much safer and quicker.

I thought I was the only person who'd sussed that out.

tompeach

Focus on weight loss ahead of next year, factor in that you'll gain a little over xmas if you are a normal human being.

To just finish the event you need to be moderately fit, and you need to pace and fuel yourself correctly. It's a long day but realistically achievable for most determined people.

Ensuring you have done at least one HC climb before is advisable, long drags at altitude can be "emotional"

ilav84

Anyone went and head and signed up then?

hypster

ilav84 wrote:

Anyone went and head and signed up then?

Registration on the official website isn't open until November. You may be able to sign up with one of the support organisations ahead of time though although I have no experience of that.

DeVlaeminck

Planning to sign up yes. Suppose they are keeping the sign up date a surprise again?

ilav84

Took the plunge and signed up for the La Marmotte next July! Shitting myself and excited at the same time! I've about 3 stone to lose first ffs

bikeav8or

My 2p.

I've done it 3 times now.

- take it easy until th bottom of the Alpe- it's a hideously long day, some say the bottom of the Alpe, 12.5 km to go, is half way mentally and physically. Find a good wheel to follow on the climbs that enables you to ride within yourself. Unless you are very gifted don't even imagine you are going to storm round.
- the first descent is bat sh&t crazy even tho it's not timed. Accidents ambulances and punctures very common Fit new tubes day before. If you do puncture, top up air using a track pump at one of many private feed stops. The Lauteret descent is awesome and around an hour long be prepared for back and neck ache
- tunnels are not as bad as you might think, stay right and let the nutters pass
- get a tight fitting gilet - this will gain a few kph on the Lauteret descent
- alloy rims a must
- new chain and the biggest cassette you can fit, road test for a couple of weeks before event
- new brake cables outers and pads fitted and properly torqued recommended & if you have an old bike carefully examine your fork steerer- high speed failures = death
- use 2 x 500 ml bottles - there are loads of water stops from 10k before the Telegraph onwards
- make sure you take your hydration tabs, they are hard to find in the locale before the event- and use them, if you get cramp stop and stretch befores it gets too bad to prevent you continuing
- be fully hydrated day before - you are in high and dry mountain air.
- have something savoury to nibble on, mini pepperami works for me, makes a break from too much sweet food
- chammy lube liberally
- clothing recommendations- med weight socks, light base layer, favourite shorts Jersey, arm warmers ,gilet if dry, gloves, a cap keeps sweat and rain out of eyes, rain jacket if wet. Check Meteo France website day before and morning of event for weather forecast, mountain weather forecasts are very changeable
- high factor sun block
- post ride nutrition very important and should include beers wine and a steak item
- every year I have the shall I finish and got up the Alpe debate on the last descent. Even if you are rock bottom, at least try the first 4 hairpins after a good feed at the bottom. The support is great and the communal human misery helps you dig in. As long as you can ignore the smug b* ggers who finished hours before descending with their gold medals on

Bon Route

EmmaF

Thanks for the good advice on here. I am female, 34, and I did a fair bit in 2014 including the Mallorca 312 and the Maratona dles Dolomites, and a crazy sportive in Wales called The Monster (190km with lots of over 25% gradients). I have entry for the Marmotte this year. I'd like to do it in a respectable time... (not sure what a good aim is really?? lol).The concern I have is that on my Trek Madone apparently I can't change the cassette because it is an 11 speed dura ace. Obviously I did all of the stuff last year with the compact it came with, but I did find the Passo Giau hard going and I guess I could do better if I had lower gears. Do you guys think it's worth looking into changing the set up altogether to get lower gears for the Marmotte or do you think just working on power and reducing body weight will be enough? (if it helps my ideal cycling weight is around 61kg, at the moment I'm probably more like 65 after xmas...)

ddraver

There is no reason you can't change the cassette - try another LBS - the concern might be that you already have the biggest cassette (12-28) that will fit your Rear Derailleur (it's not Di2 is it?)

If so then you may need to change your derailleur too, but you don't need to splash out for Dura Ace for that...

ollie51

You can go down to 11-28 with 50-34 with Dura Ace 9000 which would probably be ok if you're strong. If you want to go lower, you'll probably need a 6800 Ultegra long cage mech and an 11-32 cassette. Sometimes you could do without the mech but given the cost and time doing the Marmotte, why would you risk it?

DeVlaeminck

You probably don't need lower gears for the Marmotte than the Maratona - I haven't ridden the latter but people that have tell me that the gradients are at times steeper than they are in the Marmotte even though the Marmotte is longer and has more climbing overall.

EmmaF

ollie51 wrote:

You can go down to 11-28 with 50-34 with Dura Ace 9000 which would probably be ok if you're strong. If you want to go lower, you'll probably need a 6800 Ultegra long cage mech and an 11-32 cassette. Sometimes you could do without the mech but given the cost and time doing the Marmotte, why would you risk it?

yeah it is the 11-28 with 50-34, not di2 unfortunately ;-)
It sounds like it's not completely ridiculous then, I'll stick with it. I was jealous of my mate riding with his triple but if the gradients are more civilised than the Maratona then I think the main thing will be to train with the long steady efforts and the gearing should be fine. I have a few more things beforehand anyway - the Mallorca312 again (highly recommended by the way) and the Velothon Wales.
Thanks again for the help, looking forward to July!

phreak

I wouldn't say the gradients on the Maratona are that bad? The Pordoi, Gardena, Campalongo and Falzarego are all around the 6-7% mark if I recall. The Sella is a bit steeper but relatively short, with the Giau easily the hardest of the bunch (imo).

I wouldn't worry too much about getting up climbs when you're fresh as most will be doable, it's when you've got miles in your legs and have to get up a climb they become much harder. The Giau is probably a decent yardstick then as it comes nearer the end and you've got five climbs in your legs already. It's also similar in grade to the Alpe.

As you got over the Giau I'd imagine you'd be ok, but it's rarely a bad thing having an extra gear or two to use if you need it

ddraver

EmmaF wrote:

ollie51 wrote:

You can go down to 11-28 with 50-34 with Dura Ace 9000 which would probably be ok if you're strong. If you want to go lower, you'll probably need a 6800 Ultegra long cage mech and an 11-32 cassette. Sometimes you could do without the mech but given the cost and time doing the Marmotte, why would you risk it?

yeah it is the 11-28 with 50-34, not di2 unfortunately ;-)
It sounds like it's not completely ridiculous then, I'll stick with it. I was jealous of my mate riding with his triple but if the gradients are more civilised than the Maratona then I think the main thing will be to train with the long steady efforts and the gearing should be fine. I have a few more things beforehand anyway - the Mallorca312 again (highly recommended by the way) and the Velothon Wales.
Thanks again for the help, looking forward to July!

`

I wouldnt underestimate the difference those 2 cogs can make. If you go for 105 then you could probably make the switch for under 100 squids with a bit of internet shopping

It depends how fit you are really, I need all the help I can get!