For those that love a bun fight

24

Comments

  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Sjaak wrote:
    I have asthma. I never get asthma when I am riding, however hard. I take my pump with me all the time and occasionally use it. When I do I go faster.

    my diagnosis is that yours is almost certainly not exercise-induced asthma. please rest assured that it is perfectly normal, for peace of mind, to have your pump on you all the time and occasionally use it. but like everything else in life, just don't overdo it.

    If I run I almost always get asthma.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Sjaak
    Sjaak Posts: 99
    Sjaak wrote:
    I have asthma. I never get asthma when I am riding, however hard. I take my pump with me all the time and occasionally use it. When I do I go faster.

    my diagnosis is that yours is almost certainly not exercise-induced asthma. please rest assured that it is perfectly normal, for peace of mind, to have your pump on you all the time and occasionally use it. but like everything else in life, just don't overdo it.

    If I run I almost always get asthma.

    ok, well I think it's important that we try and get to the bottom of this. First off, what's the severity of it. Do you need to stop running and take it easy for a minute? Secondly, when does it occur and how frequent? Are you short of breath straight after you 1) start your run, 2) within 5-10 min, 3) perhaps after an hour or so, or 4) when you stop running? Third, do you monitor your heart rate and does it shoot up during such an episode?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Move along.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Cound went mental.

    Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

    To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

    *Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Sjaak
    Sjaak Posts: 99
    Cound went mental.

    Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

    To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

    *Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

    It's asparagus my dear..
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Didn't Petacchi get done for overuse of Salbutamol?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Didn't Petacchi get done for overuse of Salbutamol?

    Yes and the following implicated in some way with salbutamol:

    BALLERINI Franco Italy
    BERTHOU Eric France
    BONDUE Alain France
    DELOEUIL Alain France
    GIRSCHWEILER Christoph Switzerland
    GONZÁLEZ DE GALDEANO Igor Spain
    HAMBURGER Bo Denmark
    INDURAIN Miguel Spain
    MADOUAS Laurent France
    PEREIRO Oscar Spain
    PETACCHI Alessandro Italy
    QUILFEN Bernard France
    ROMINGER Toni Switzerland
    SAPRYKINAS Arnoldas Lithuania
    VELO Marco Italy
    WHITE Matthew Australia
    ZÜLLE Alex
    Contador is the Greatest
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    I get exercise induced asthma and it's flipping annoying. Have always really struggled on winter club runs for the first 30 minutes as a result. You can't chase back on when you can hardly get any oxygen in. Amusingly I once had to explain to the pharmacist that I needed the blue inhaler as well as a preventer, as the blue one is the only one you can easily use while continuing to race.

    As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Sjaak wrote:
    Cound went mental.

    Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

    To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

    *Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

    It's asparagus my dear..

    No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Sjaak
    Sjaak Posts: 99
    Sjaak wrote:
    Cound went mental.

    Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

    To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

    *Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

    It's asparagus my dear..

    No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.

    please explain..?
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Cound went mental.

    Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

    To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

    *Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

    And not just people, it was a Eurosport commentator who retweeted it, and put it out there without doing any research into its illegality. Irresponsible in the extreme. I can't fault Cound at all on this one.
  • dsoutar
    dsoutar Posts: 1,746
    eh wrote:
    As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.

    I suspect primarily a placebo / psychological effect. Clinical trials have proven negligible impact to athletic performance.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439523/

    However it's restricted use must have been established for a reason I guess
  • tuneskyline
    tuneskyline Posts: 370
    Yep.
    Maybe he's got a bit of Xenon in there :lol:
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Sjaak wrote:
    Sjaak wrote:
    Cound went mental.

    Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

    To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

    *Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

    It's asparagus my dear..

    No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.

    please explain..?

    Because in some people asparagus makes your urine smell. Mark Cavendish being one of those people:

    Mark Cavendish @MarkCavendish · Jun 6

    Anti-doping control this morning. I'd had asparagus for dinner last night. I properly giggled like a kid. It was slightly awkward.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • FoldingJoe
    FoldingJoe Posts: 1,327
    Sjaak wrote:
    Sjaak wrote:
    Cound went mental.

    Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

    To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

    *Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

    It's asparagus my dear..

    No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.

    please explain..?

    Because in some people asparagus makes your urine smell. Mark Cavendish being one of those people:

    Mark Cavendish @MarkCavendish · Jun 6

    Anti-doping control this morning. I'd had asparagus for dinner last night. I properly giggled like a kid. It was slightly awkward.


    And supposedly, most of the French riders - maybe FF can confirm if is a common affliction amongst the French!?? :)
    Little boy to Obama: "My Dad says that you read all our emails"
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  • Crampeur
    Crampeur Posts: 1,065
    dsoutar wrote:
    eh wrote:
    As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.

    I suspect primarily a placebo / psychological effect. Clinical trials have proven negligible impact to athletic performance.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439523/

    However it's restricted use must have been established for a reason I guess

    Inhalers also act as a muscle relaxant, to help widen the airways, which probably has a negative impact on performance. Certainly from personal experience, they can make you feel weaker.

    The amount of Salbutamol in a standard Ventolin inhaler is negligible anyway, you would need to have 16 actuations before you would be over the WADA limit.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Wrong planet
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Macaloon wrote:
    English asparagus is the best at making your wee honk. It's a measure of its unimpeachable superiority vs foreign asparagus, especially that suspiciously voluminous but ultimately watery Low Country white pish.

    Is it English or just the green asparagus more generally that makes your pee smell bad, because the green jobbies here to a grand job of making your eyes water? :cry:

    Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

    *These differences in either smell or ability to smell have been observed on an anecdotal and personal level in my family in a totally lackadaisical and unscientific series of experiments. The reasons however have yet to be determined.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    I wish people would stop confusing Petacchi-like abuse of Salbutamol (where it is added via an IV in gargantuan quantities) to Froome using a couple of puffs of a ventolin inhaler.

    I thought the main reason for Petacchi-like use of the substance was for weight loss.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,719
    Cound went mental.

    Went? hasn't she got plenty of previous :?:
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Is it English or just the green asparagus more generally that makes your pee smell bad, because the green jobbies here to a grand job of making your eyes water? :cry:

    Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

    *These differences in either smell or ability to smell have been observed on an anecdotal and personal level in my family in a totally lackadaisical and unscientific series of experiments. The reasons however have yet to be determined.

    English asparagus stands alone due to the specific minerality of the soil, freezing temperatures promoting robust slow growth (depth of taste), and your typical English liver, packed with enzymes from the compost.

    Hope that helps.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Macaloon wrote:
    Is it English or just the green asparagus more generally that makes your pee smell bad, because the green jobbies here to a grand job of making your eyes water? :cry:

    Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

    *These differences in either smell or ability to smell have been observed on an anecdotal and personal level in my family in a totally lackadaisical and unscientific series of experiments. The reasons however have yet to be determined.

    English asparagus stands alone due to the specific minerality of the soil, freezing temperatures promoting robust slow growth (depth of taste), and your typical English liver, packed with enzymes from the compost.

    Hope that helps.

    Most informative I thank you.

    I must admit to not actually checking the origin of the green shoots I buy here.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,029
    I think there are some interesting questions to be asked relating to asthma and cycling. Is it more widespread in professional cyclists than the general population? What about prevalence in other comparable sports?
  • josame
    josame Posts: 1,162
    TheBigBean wrote:
    I think there are some interesting questions to be asked relating to asthma and cycling. Is it more widespread in professional cyclists than the general population? What about prevalence in other comparable sports?

    I'm concerned about your definition of 'interesting'
    'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
  • tuneskyline
    tuneskyline Posts: 370
    Having Asthma gives you a massive advantage. I ran some tests and I can tell you it's fu%%ing awesome. You don't need an inhaler though you just chop it up real fine on a American express platinum card and snort through a £50 note.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,183

    Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

    And the genes determining the ability to produce the smelly metabolite and be able to smell it are different, so some can only smell asparagus in other people's pee.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,183
    Yep.
    Maybe he's got a bit of Xenon in there :lol:

    Which will have zero benefit (and most likely detrimental) taken during exertion.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,183
    dsoutar wrote:
    eh wrote:
    As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.

    I suspect primarily a placebo / psychological effect. Clinical trials have proven negligible impact to athletic performance.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439523/

    However it's restricted use must have been established for a reason I guess

    That's a pretty good review.

    In non-asthmatics, the airways (trachea, bronchi and bronchioles) are pretty much fully dilated all the time, so inhaling salbutamol at normal doses (within WADA limits) will have sod all effect. Higher amounts will get into the general circulation, and has similar (but lesser) effects as adrenaline - increase blood supply to muslce and increases heart rate and force of contraction, although salbutamol doesn't do this very well. Now these guys aren't really short of adrenaline at this point in the race, so again the effect will be negligible.

    Very high (above wada limit) circulating salbutamol over a long time will be like clenbuterol and have fat burning and maybe muscle building effects, but you would probably have to drink the stuff (although most of an 'inhaled' medicines actually end up being swallowed).

    In a significant fraction of the population, and a higher proportion of asthmatics, over-use (or even regular therapeutic dosing) will lead to desensitisation, and result in the asthma getting worse. This is due to a variant gene for the adrenaline receptor which swithes off quickly. Conceivably, adrenaline will have less of an effect elsewhere in the body too.

    So there is a potential both for harm and out of competition enhanced performance. That's why levels are regulated.
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368
    eh wrote:
    I get exercise induced asthma and it's flipping annoying. Have always really struggled on winter club runs for the first 30 minutes as a result. You can't chase back on when you can hardly get any oxygen in. Amusingly I once had to explain to the pharmacist that I needed the blue inhaler as well as a preventer, as the blue one is the only one you can easily use while continuing to race.

    have you tried using a scarf/buff to breath through in winter?, the problem is when its cold the airs dry and as soon as you start breathing in through your mouth as you will do if you are pedalling quite hard, the dry air will just automatically set your asthma off.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,719
    If you really - and I warn you I do mean really - hate the world have a look at digger's timeline for a continuation of inhaler gate. Apparently Bilharzia cures Asthma now.

    He has really gone to the land beyond that poor guy
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver