For those that love a bun fight

frenchfighter

Sjaak wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I have asthma. I never get asthma when I am riding, however hard. I take my pump with me all the time and occasionally use it. When I do I go faster.

my diagnosis is that yours is almost certainly not exercise-induced asthma. please rest assured that it is perfectly normal, for peace of mind, to have your pump on you all the time and occasionally use it. but like everything else in life, just don't overdo it.

If I run I almost always get asthma.

Sjaak

frenchfighter wrote:

Sjaak wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I have asthma. I never get asthma when I am riding, however hard. I take my pump with me all the time and occasionally use it. When I do I go faster.

my diagnosis is that yours is almost certainly not exercise-induced asthma. please rest assured that it is perfectly normal, for peace of mind, to have your pump on you all the time and occasionally use it. but like everything else in life, just don't overdo it.

If I run I almost always get asthma.

ok, well I think it's important that we try and get to the bottom of this. First off, what's the severity of it. Do you need to stop running and take it easy for a minute? Secondly, when does it occur and how frequent? Are you short of breath straight after you 1) start your run, 2) within 5-10 min, 3) perhaps after an hour or so, or 4) when you stop running? Third, do you monitor your heart rate and does it shoot up during such an episode?

frenchfighter

Move along.

above_the_cows

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

*Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

Sjaak

Above The Cows wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

*Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

It's asparagus my dear..

thegreatdivide

Didn't Petacchi get done for overuse of Salbutamol?

frenchfighter

thegreatdivide wrote:

Didn't Petacchi get done for overuse of Salbutamol?

Yes and the following implicated in some way with salbutamol:

BALLERINI Franco Italy
BERTHOU Eric France
BONDUE Alain France
DELOEUIL Alain France
GIRSCHWEILER Christoph Switzerland
GONZÁLEZ DE GALDEANO Igor Spain
HAMBURGER Bo Denmark
INDURAIN Miguel Spain
MADOUAS Laurent France
PEREIRO Oscar Spain
PETACCHI Alessandro Italy
QUILFEN Bernard France
ROMINGER Toni Switzerland
SAPRYKINAS Arnoldas Lithuania
VELO Marco Italy
WHITE Matthew Australia
ZÜLLE Alex

eh

I get exercise induced asthma and it's flipping annoying. Have always really struggled on winter club runs for the first 30 minutes as a result. You can't chase back on when you can hardly get any oxygen in. Amusingly I once had to explain to the pharmacist that I needed the blue inhaler as well as a preventer, as the blue one is the only one you can easily use while continuing to race.

As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.

above_the_cows

Sjaak wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

*Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

It's asparagus my dear..

No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.

Sjaak

Above The Cows wrote:

Sjaak wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

*Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

It's asparagus my dear..

No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.

please explain..?

Turfle

Above The Cows wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

*Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

And not just people, it was a Eurosport commentator who retweeted it, and put it out there without doing any research into its illegality. Irresponsible in the extreme. I can't fault Cound at all on this one.

dsoutar

eh wrote:

As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.

I suspect primarily a placebo / psychological effect. Clinical trials have proven negligible impact to athletic performance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439523/

However it's restricted use must have been established for a reason I guess

tuneskyline

Yep.
Maybe he's got a bit of Xenon in there

above_the_cows

Sjaak wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Sjaak wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

*Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

It's asparagus my dear..

No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.

please explain..?

Because in some people asparagus makes your urine smell. Mark Cavendish being one of those people:

Mark Cavendish @MarkCavendish · Jun 6

Anti-doping control this morning. I'd had asparagus for dinner last night. I properly giggled like a kid. It was slightly awkward.

FoldingJoe

Above The Cows wrote:

Sjaak wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Sjaak wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Not entirely wrong....but mental all the same

To be fair to the Coco the Cound on this one, I think I might go mental if people started casting nasturtiums over an asthma inhaler. Asthma isn't a joke, it can be serious*. Are people going to start questioning Team Type 1 (or whatever they're called now) now too?

*Disclaimer, I might take this very personally I lost my cousin (a triathlete - shhhh I know) to asthma.

It's asparagus my dear..

No asparagus is a way to play a little joke with the doping control.

please explain..?

Because in some people asparagus makes your urine smell. Mark Cavendish being one of those people:

Mark Cavendish @MarkCavendish · Jun 6

Anti-doping control this morning. I'd had asparagus for dinner last night. I properly giggled like a kid. It was slightly awkward.

And supposedly, most of the French riders - maybe FF can confirm if is a common affliction amongst the French!??

Crampeur

dsoutar wrote:

eh wrote:

As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.

I suspect primarily a placebo / psychological effect. Clinical trials have proven negligible impact to athletic performance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439523/

However it's restricted use must have been established for a reason I guess

Inhalers also act as a muscle relaxant, to help widen the airways, which probably has a negative impact on performance. Certainly from personal experience, they can make you feel weaker.

The amount of Salbutamol in a standard Ventolin inhaler is negligible anyway, you would need to have 16 actuations before you would be over the WADA limit.

Macaloon

Wrong planet

above_the_cows

Macaloon wrote:

English asparagus is the best at making your wee honk. It's a measure of its unimpeachable superiority vs foreign asparagus, especially that suspiciously voluminous but ultimately watery Low Country white pish.

Is it English or just the green asparagus more generally that makes your pee smell bad, because the green jobbies here to a grand job of making your eyes water?

Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

*These differences in either smell or ability to smell have been observed on an anecdotal and personal level in my family in a totally lackadaisical and unscientific series of experiments. The reasons however have yet to be determined.

timoid.

I wish people would stop confusing Petacchi-like abuse of Salbutamol (where it is added via an IV in gargantuan quantities) to Froome using a couple of puffs of a ventolin inhaler.

I thought the main reason for Petacchi-like use of the substance was for weight loss.

jimmythecuckoo

TailWindHome wrote:

Cound went mental.

Went? hasn't she got plenty of previous :?:

Macaloon

Above The Cows wrote:

Is it English or just the green asparagus more generally that makes your pee smell bad, because the green jobbies here to a grand job of making your eyes water?

Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

*These differences in either smell or ability to smell have been observed on an anecdotal and personal level in my family in a totally lackadaisical and unscientific series of experiments. The reasons however have yet to be determined.

English asparagus stands alone due to the specific minerality of the soil, freezing temperatures promoting robust slow growth (depth of taste), and your typical English liver, packed with enzymes from the compost.

Hope that helps.

above_the_cows

Macaloon wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Is it English or just the green asparagus more generally that makes your pee smell bad, because the green jobbies here to a grand job of making your eyes water?

Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

*These differences in either smell or ability to smell have been observed on an anecdotal and personal level in my family in a totally lackadaisical and unscientific series of experiments. The reasons however have yet to be determined.

English asparagus stands alone due to the specific minerality of the soil, freezing temperatures promoting robust slow growth (depth of taste), and your typical English liver, packed with enzymes from the compost.

Hope that helps.

Most informative I thank you.

I must admit to not actually checking the origin of the green shoots I buy here.

TheBigBean

I think there are some interesting questions to be asked relating to asthma and cycling. Is it more widespread in professional cyclists than the general population? What about prevalence in other comparable sports?

josame

TheBigBean wrote:

I think there are some interesting questions to be asked relating to asthma and cycling. Is it more widespread in professional cyclists than the general population? What about prevalence in other comparable sports?

I'm concerned about your definition of 'interesting'

tuneskyline

Having Asthma gives you a massive advantage. I ran some tests and I can tell you it's fu%%ing awesome. You don't need an inhaler though you just chop it up real fine on a American express platinum card and snort through a £50 note.

Mad_Malx

Above The Cows wrote:

Interestingly it doesn't make everyone's pee smell/only some people can smell the effect, with some idea that there is a genetic component.*

And the genes determining the ability to produce the smelly metabolite and be able to smell it are different, so some can only smell asparagus in other people's pee.

Mad_Malx

tuneskyline wrote:

Yep.
Maybe he's got a bit of Xenon in there

Which will have zero benefit (and most likely detrimental) taken during exertion.

Mad_Malx

dsoutar wrote:

eh wrote:

As FF list above shows salbutamol is abused by many riders, not quite sure what good it's supposed to do them though.

I suspect primarily a placebo / psychological effect. Clinical trials have proven negligible impact to athletic performance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439523/

However it's restricted use must have been established for a reason I guess

That's a pretty good review.

In non-asthmatics, the airways (trachea, bronchi and bronchioles) are pretty much fully dilated all the time, so inhaling salbutamol at normal doses (within WADA limits) will have sod all effect. Higher amounts will get into the general circulation, and has similar (but lesser) effects as adrenaline - increase blood supply to muslce and increases heart rate and force of contraction, although salbutamol doesn't do this very well. Now these guys aren't really short of adrenaline at this point in the race, so again the effect will be negligible.

Very high (above wada limit) circulating salbutamol over a long time will be like clenbuterol and have fat burning and maybe muscle building effects, but you would probably have to drink the stuff (although most of an 'inhaled' medicines actually end up being swallowed).

In a significant fraction of the population, and a higher proportion of asthmatics, over-use (or even regular therapeutic dosing) will lead to desensitisation, and result in the asthma getting worse. This is due to a variant gene for the adrenaline receptor which swithes off quickly. Conceivably, adrenaline will have less of an effect elsewhere in the body too.

So there is a potential both for harm and out of competition enhanced performance. That's why levels are regulated.

awavey

eh wrote:

I get exercise induced asthma and it's flipping annoying. Have always really struggled on winter club runs for the first 30 minutes as a result. You can't chase back on when you can hardly get any oxygen in. Amusingly I once had to explain to the pharmacist that I needed the blue inhaler as well as a preventer, as the blue one is the only one you can easily use while continuing to race.

have you tried using a scarf/buff to breath through in winter?, the problem is when its cold the airs dry and as soon as you start breathing in through your mouth as you will do if you are pedalling quite hard, the dry air will just automatically set your asthma off.

ddraver

If you really - and I warn you I do mean really - hate the world have a look at digger's timeline for a continuation of inhaler gate. Apparently Bilharzia cures Asthma now.

He has really gone to the land beyond that poor guy