Football World Cup talk

DeVlaeminck

Bobby Charlton has come out and backed Rooney as a must pick for England. I don't know I'd go quite that far as any player has to keep their form up but a lot of the stick Rooney has been getting seems more than a bit unfair. He's had a pretty good season, his recent goals record for England is good and that is from a player who is more than just a goal poacher.

Seems to me he gets judged by a different set of standards to the rest of the team - we want him to be the player he promised he might be when he was a teenager - the next Gazza or someone who might equal the best in the world and when he falls short he gets called a failure. OK so he hasn't quite reached the standard that was hoped but he's still a true world class player and England don't have all that many of those.

RideOnTime

I have come out to back Bobby Charlton.

pblakeney

I would argue that he has had an average season playing with an average team, has an average goal scoring record, a poor one in tournament finals, and is an average player.
Early hype ignored, he is nothing more of a player than anyone else in the squad.
Potential is nothing if not realised.

I would be surprised if he played the full 3 first games.

Majestic 12

Rooney has failed to live up to his teenage talent and impress for England in what is now considered the peak of his playing career. Injuries aside he has had a poor series of performances at tournaments and I would also doubt that he can be termed as 'world class'. He is a very good club footballer, but in recent seasons even some Manchester Utd supporters must admit that when playing against top class club sides both domestically and in Europe his skill sets are rendered impotent.

I really think that he should have been left out of the squad (same goes for Gerrard and Lampard). He will however start the first game against Italy and if he does not perform, I hope that Woy will have the nerve to drop him.

Looking forward to the World Cup. No expectations for England to do well, so I hope it gives the youngsters an opportunity to gain experience and enjoy it.

pblakeney

PS - Sir Bobby Charlton's interests may be closer to home.

Imagine the consequences of falling stock in their most valuable player following a poor World Cup.
Especially if the new manager does not have the same affection.

RideOnTime

PBlakeney wrote:

I would argue that he has had an average season playing with an average team, has an average goal scoring record, a poor one in tournament finals, and is an average player.
Early hype ignored, he is nothing more of a player than anyone else in the squad.
Potential is nothing if not realised.

I would be surprised if he played the full 3 first games.

who - Bobby Charlton

DeVlaeminck

Well I'd be surprised if he played the full 90 minutes of the first 3 games too - I'd be surprised if any of the forwards did. I just think he's being judged against higher standards than the rest of the squad - a bit like the stick Kevin Piertersen got for being "disinterested" in the Ashes tour where he was our second highest run scorer.

pblakeney

Fair enough on the full 90 minutes x 3 given the heat over there.

I warrant he won't play more than 210 minutes total.

A World class player would manage 3 x 70 wouldn't they?

mamba80

PBlakeney wrote:

I would argue that he has had an average season playing with an average team, has an average goal scoring record, a poor one in tournament finals, and is an average player.
Early hype ignored, he is nothing more of a player than anyone else in the squad.
Potential is nothing if not realised.

I would be surprised if he played the full 3 first games.

I would be surprised if England played more than 4 games

Cygnus

If England actually got out of the group then that would be an achievement considering the other teams in it, I somehow can't see Uruguay or Italy failing to get through.

finchy

I don't know about Uruguay. They are good at home, but their away record during qualification was woeful and beyond their 4 or 5 star players, do they have a team full of world beaters?

Cygnus

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know about Uruguay. They are good at home, but their away record during qualification was woeful and beyond their 4 or 5 star players, do they have a team full of world beaters?

Well they're certainly better than England.

finchy

I don't know, for the first time since 1998, I actually feel like England might do well in this tournament.

pblakeney

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know, for the first time since 1998, I actually feel like England might do well in this tournament.

I wonder if those feelings still persist?

finchy

PBlakeney wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know, for the first time since 1998, I actually feel like England might do well in this tournament.

I wonder if those feelings still persist?

Yes. It was a friendly, played in the USA to get used to the heat. A couple of great goals in that match. Barkley really has the potential to be Paul Gascoigne without all the mental stuff.

verylonglegs

I'm not quite up to the same levels of optimism for the tournament overall as finchy but I have had a contrarian view of the group since the draw was made. The general consensus seems to have been we'll do well not to lose to Italy and will have to try and win the other two games to get through. However I have a feeling it will be the other way round and we may get a result against Italy but then lose to Uruguay.

I just don't think the Italian squad is all that to be honest and we shouldn't play into their hands by deferring to them as favourites automatically and being defensive. Unfortunately that is Hodgsons way.

thomthom

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know about Uruguay. They are good at home, but their away record during qualification was woeful and beyond their 4 or 5 star players, do they have a team full of world beaters?

Who is more the home team between Uruguay and England...? They are as close as being at home as they could be without hosting the thing.

finchy

ThomThom wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know about Uruguay. They are good at home, but their away record during qualification was woeful and beyond their 4 or 5 star players, do they have a team full of world beaters?

Who is more the home team between Uruguay and England...? They are as close as being at home as they could be without hosting the thing.

They won 2 away matches in South America during qualification. Letting in 4 goals against teams like Bolivia and conceding 25 goals in 16 games tells me that their defence is vulnerable, the question is whether England can outscore Cavani and Suarez.

pblakeney

johnfinch wrote:

Yes. It was a friendly, played in the USA to get used to the heat. A couple of great goals in that match. Barkley really has the potential to be Paul Gascoigne without all the mental stuff.

Nicely focussing on the positives.
The defence was more of a concern.

However, if you wish to remain positive, didn't Italy do well?

nathancom

johnfinch wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know about Uruguay. They are good at home, but their away record during qualification was woeful and beyond their 4 or 5 star players, do they have a team full of world beaters?

Who is more the home team between Uruguay and England...? They are as close as being at home as they could be without hosting the thing.

They won 2 away matches in South America during qualification. Letting in 4 goals against teams like Bolivia and conceding 25 goals in 16 games tells me that their defence is vulnerable, the question is whether England can outscore Cavani and Suarez.

I can't see Suarez being on top form so soon after surgery, and with Sturridge we have a striker the equal of anyone else.

I think we can beat Italy if we don't concede first, we have a young team that will have more energy which is important in the heat. Glen Johnson is my main worry though.

finchy

PBlakeney wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Yes. It was a friendly, played in the USA to get used to the heat. A couple of great goals in that match. Barkley really has the potential to be Paul Gascoigne without all the mental stuff.

Nicely focussing on the positives.
The defence was more of a concern.

However, if you wish to remain positive, didn't Italy do well?

The defence from the Ecuador match will be benchwarmers in Brazil.

finchy

nathancom wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know about Uruguay. They are good at home, but their away record during qualification was woeful and beyond their 4 or 5 star players, do they have a team full of world beaters?

Who is more the home team between Uruguay and England...? They are as close as being at home as they could be without hosting the thing.

They won 2 away matches in South America during qualification. Letting in 4 goals against teams like Bolivia and conceding 25 goals in 16 games tells me that their defence is vulnerable, the question is whether England can outscore Cavani and Suarez.

I can't see Suarez being on top form so soon after surgery, and with Sturridge we have a striker the equal of anyone else.

I think we can beat Italy if we don't concede first, we have a young team that will have more energy which is important in the heat. Glen Johnson is my main worry though.

Good points. I think we all have worries about Glen Johnson. Hodgson probably has nightmares.

MaxwellBygraves

We seem to have copied the 'Liverpool philosophy', looking dangerous going forward, leaky sieve at the back (and yes, I know it wasn't our first choice XI but Cahill & Jags looked shaky against Peru).

Italy could only manage a draw last night against the mighty Luxembourg, so maybe we have more reason to be optimistic, but I still don't really see us getting out of the group.

MaxwellBygraves

johnfinch wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Yes. It was a friendly, played in the USA to get used to the heat. A couple of great goals in that match. Barkley really has the potential to be Paul Gascoigne without all the mental stuff.

Nicely focussing on the positives.
The defence was more of a concern.

However, if you wish to remain positive, didn't Italy do well?

The defence from the Ecuador match will be benchwarmers in Brazil.

As I said in my other post though, Cahill & Jags didn't look great against Peru. Johnson is our weak link and our defence will let us down. Italy and Uruguay will be watching these friendlies and will be looking to exploit our weak defence, particularly on our right hand side.

raymondo60

Gary Lineker made a valid point the other day. He said that these pre-tournament 'warm-up' matches are often a nightmare and usually bear no relation to a 'competitive' match, what with iregular team selection, multiple substitutions, the fear of getting injured etc. As usual with the British media, Hodgson would be criticized for not giving the youngsters a try if he picked his preferred team, and criticized again if he did pick his strongest team for not giving the youngters a try! The reality is that we are an average squad, lacking in experience, and consequently we have an average chance of doing well. However, this is football, and one of the reasons it is 'the beautiful game' is because, on any given day, an otherwise mediocre team can gel and perform above their expectations. Think Germany 1, England 5, or England 4, Holland 1 in 1996. That's the sort of desperate hope that we England fans suffer from! Bring it on!

Tiltzey Boy

johnfinch wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know, for the first time since 1998, I actually feel like England might do well in this tournament.

I wonder if those feelings still persist?

Yes. It was a friendly, played in the USA to get used to the heat. A couple of great goals in that match. Barkley really has the potential to be Paul Gascoigne without all the mental stuff.

Hahahahaha! LMFAO!!

Hahahaha.....still LMFAO!!
:roll:

finchy

Tiltzey Boy wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't know, for the first time since 1998, I actually feel like England might do well in this tournament.

I wonder if those feelings still persist?

Yes. It was a friendly, played in the USA to get used to the heat. A couple of great goals in that match. Barkley really has the potential to be Paul Gascoigne without all the mental stuff.

Hahahahaha! LMFAO!!

Hahahaha.....still LMFAO!!
:roll:

Errrrr... why?

DeVlaeminck

I can't decide if he's laughing at Barkley being as good as Gazza or if he thinks Gazza wasn't that good. If it's the former I haven't seen enough of him to comment, if it's the latter I'd beg to differ.

verylonglegs

I think with all the exclamations and txt speak a Sun reading England supporter inadvertently infiltrated the forum. Maybe normal service is now resumed.

Mikey23

Anyone got flags on their cars yet?

verylonglegs

I saw the first car with flags on it lastnight.