Giro 2014 - Stage 6 - Sassano-Montecassino * Spoiler *

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Comments

  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    tuneskyline wrote:
    If other riders cannot stay on 2 wheels and he can why should he or any of the others lose their advantage.

    If you look at the crash you will understand that skill has nothing to do with it. Just luck. You can be the best bike handler in the World but it is highly unlikely to prevent you falling on surfaces such as that.
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Quintana has done nothing this year. He looks Cr%p and this is a good excuse for him if he does not step up to the plate.

    You probably should watch more racing. He won the overall at San Luis including a dominant win. He came 2nd in Tirreno Adriatico. 2nd - best of the rest after Contador. 2nd on stage four. In Catalunya he was 5th including a third and a fifth placing. He was 10th yesterday.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If you look at the crash you will understand that skill has nothing to do with it. Just luck.
    And the further towards the front you ride, the luckier you get.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • sbbefc
    sbbefc Posts: 189
    Fans travel from all over the place to watch roadside, its only fair they race.

    On a side note, they must get so many motor vehicle crashes in Italy, cant believe how bad the roads are.
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If you look at the crash you will understand that skill has nothing to do with it. Just luck.
    And the further towards the front you ride, the luckier you get.

    +1 BMC as a team held that right hand side for a number of kms just to protect Evans from crashes - it happened and they capitalised - can't argue against that - you want a race you got a race
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    They were racing so hard before the crash that at 13km to go the peloton was lined out across the road and about 30m long. If they are racing a bloc then the peloton would be 1-3 deep and 500m long.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Not many km's before Evans was pestered by the cameras at the back of the peleton ... and was then seen making his way back up to the front for when it mattered ...

    I want Evans to win as it would be a nice finale to a very good palmares and would mean a lot to him given his Italian connections ... If this is how he does it, so be it ...
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If you look at the crash you will understand that skill has nothing to do with it. Just luck.
    And the further towards the front you ride, the luckier you get.

    So you suggest all DS should advise their teams to ride 95% to put their GC rider on the front? So they all ride at 50km/h and increase the likelihood of crashing?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Arredondo has become amazingly overrated.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If you look at the crash you will understand that skill has nothing to do with it. Just luck.
    And the further towards the front you ride, the luckier you get.

    Not necessarily.
    According to Uran, all the favourites were at the front, fighting for position,
    hence the crash.
    Cuddles, the only one to stay upright.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Anyone got any stats for crashes this year versus others?

    This year feels particularly bad. Classics were rife, and this is no better.
    _
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Paolo Tiralongo, superb rider that he is, was the only who was at Caruso's side seeing how he was even after coming down hard himself.

    Ambulance folk too way way too long to get to him as well (over 5mins).
    Contador is the Greatest
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Matthews did well. Surprised he wasn't dropped.

    Evans is always good at these tricky stages.
    _
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    @cannondalePro 1 hr
    Update on @Davide_villella.The reduction of subdislocation has been successfully attempted.He will remain in hospital tonight,tomorrow home

    OnYourRight wrote:
    As it happens, I’ve never fallen off on a wet roundabout in my life. If you slide out you’re going too fast or you’re too close to the guy in front (who has slid out, etc.). Quit blaming the conditions!

    Racing needn’t mean acting like a crazed idiot just because racers have historically acted liked glorious crazed idiots. Arguments from tradition are weak. The teams with half a clue consistently ride ahead (e.g. BMC today) or behind (e.g. Sky nursing Wiggins down wet mountains last year) when crashing is likely. Pouring into a wet roundabout at 50 km/h amid a hundred others doing likewise is plainly irrational, dumb racing, and ultimately unprofessional.

    Agreed re speed into the roundabout (BMC are totally to be blamed for this). Completely disagree with you regarding the conditions. The roads in today's and Tuesday's stage are clearly not normal.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Turfle wrote:
    Arredondo has become amazingly overrated.

    Don't agree. Thought he was in for a chance of the podium this year. Great climber, punchy and the parcours this year would have suited his talents.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    OnYourRight wrote:
    As it happens, I’ve never fallen off on a wet roundabout in my life. If you slide out you’re going too fast or you’re too close to the guy in front (who has slid out, etc.). Quit blaming the conditions!

    Racing needn’t mean acting like a crazed idiot just because racers have historically acted liked glorious crazed idiots. Arguments from tradition are weak. The teams with half a clue consistently ride ahead (e.g. BMC today) or behind (e.g. Sky nursing Wiggins down wet mountains last year) when crashing is likely. Pouring into a wet roundabout at 50 km/h amid a hundred others doing likewise is plainly irrational, dumb racing, and ultimately unprofessional.

    I'd suggest they're better bike handlers than you are, and know what they doing, given they race thousands of kilometres ever year.
    _
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Joelsim wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Arredondo has become amazingly overrated.

    Don't agree. Thought he was in for a chance of the podium this year. Great climber, punchy and the parcours this year would have suited his talents.

    Lol, what a stupid thing to say by turtle. Good job he is on block. He should watch more racing - Arredondo's results this year speak for themselves.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Arredondo has become amazingly overrated.

    Don't agree. Thought he was in for a chance of the podium this year. Great climber, punchy and the parcours this year would have suited his talents.

    Lol, what a stupid thing to say by turtle. Good job he is on block. He should watch more racing - Arredondo's results this year speak for themselves.

    A couple of stages and 4th in San Luis in January and he's a GT podium candidate?
    Who's being stupid, again?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Joelsim wrote:
    Turfle wrote:
    Arredondo has become amazingly overrated.

    Don't agree. Thought he was in for a chance of the podium this year. Great climber, punchy and the parcours this year would have suited his talents.

    He's a good young punchy rider who has never ridden a 3 week race, and who hasn't shown a thing in the high mountains in this quality of race, and who can't time trial.

    Perhaps harsh to say he's overrated, but the expectations of him are becoming ridiculous. He has been crazily overhyped all year, as his results have shown. Top 3 in the Giro? Come on now. Give the kid a chance.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    OnYourRight wrote:
    Now the roads are pas normal! :lol:

    How can BMC be blamed for the speed of anyone except their own riders?

    With the insane risks of bumping elbows with others at 50 km/h around a wet roundabout, one rational approach would be to drift to the back, negotiate the roundabout at literally half the speed, and make up the lost ground (five seconds?) afterwards. Almost anything is better than going fifty-fifty on a broken shoulder.
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I'd suggest they're better bike handlers than you are, and know what they doing, given they race thousands of kilometres ever year.
    Of course they’re better bike handlers than me. Doesn’t mean I can’t criticise the time-honoured idiocy of crashing en masse on wet roundabouts 10 km from the finish.

    So explain the chap who fell without anyone being near him or any bend occurring, about 70m before the roundabout?
    _
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Have a look at his results over the last 3 years in smaller tours, in the one dayers, the fact that he was only a handful of seconds behind Quintana in T-A this year, and he's shown on more than a couple of occasions that he can climb and he can punch. This boy is a good rider.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Paul 8v wrote:
    it's not anyone's fault apart from possibly whoever designed the road surface
    Since when have road surfaces been designed for cyclists who go hell for leather then break on a wet surface with skinny tyres? No longer than road surfaces have been designed for motor cars approaching a roundabout at speed in wet conditions and then braking hard.
    frenchfighter wrote:
    The BMC DS himself said he had told his boys to stay up front (likely same with other teams) and not to lose their position as there was a roundabout coming up and they feared the worst.
    I do wonder if the Giro road book pointed out that the island was lopsided and, with the whole road being available (and being used) as the riders approached, there would be a squeeze as they all tried to go around one side of it – a situation made worse by the triangular routing island just preceeding the roundabout. It effectively suddenly reduced the two-lane approach to half that width.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    If you look at the crash you will understand that skill has nothing to do with it. Just luck.
    And the further towards the front you ride, the luckier you get.

    Not necessarily.
    According to Uran, all the favourites were at the front, fighting for position,
    hence the crash.
    Cuddles, the only one to stay upright.
    I didn't say it was a guarantee - just a way of improving your chances.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    OnYourRight wrote:
    As it happens, I’ve never fallen off on a wet roundabout in my life. If you slide out you’re going too fast or you’re too close to the guy in front (who has slid out, etc.). Quit blaming the conditions!
    "As it happens", that proves absolutely nothing! You might as well have said "I've never fallen off because I always carry a special rock in my pocket that keeps me safe". All you can say is you haven't fallen off yet. I'd imagine it's also a little different if you're free to bimble around these obstacles at whatever speed you want instead of actually having to keep up with a bunch, never mind doing it at the speed the professionals ride.
  • thegibdog
    thegibdog Posts: 2,106
    OnYourRight wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    So explain the chap who fell without anyone being near him or any bend occurring, about 70m before the roundabout?
    Can’t. Didn’t see it. Some crashes will always happen, of course. It’s just that the very high risk on wet roundabouts near – but not very near – the finish is not being treated appropriately except by a minority. This has been a recurring theme for many years (maybe decades).

    But I’ve said my piece on this.
    Have you seen footage of the crash near the roundabout? Interested as I didn't think that it was caught on camera. Or are you happy to comment on things you haven't seen when it suits you? (genuine question)
    https://gibworth.mypixieset.com
  • dsoutar
    dsoutar Posts: 1,746
    So FF, Joelsim et al

    Please justify why your opinion is more valid than Sean Kelly's

    I can't wait to read what possible argument you can provide
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Anyone got any stats for crashes this year versus others?

    This year feels particularly bad. Classics were rife, and this is no better.

    This is a perfect opportunity for one of iain's graphs....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    Just watched it.
    Can't believe anyone would think the Evans group should sit up.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Paul 8v
    Paul 8v Posts: 5,458
    knedlicky wrote:
    Paul 8v wrote:
    it's not anyone's fault apart from possibly whoever designed the road surface
    Since when have road surfaces been designed for cyclists who go hell for leather then break on a wet surface with skinny tyres? No longer than road surfaces have been designed for motor cars approaching a roundabout at speed in wet conditions and then braking hard.

    Obviously not, I've never driven on Italian roads but is it a problem for cars too in the wet? It seems to be creating a lot of mishaps this year.
    Road
    MTB
    NEW Cross
    Track/Grass Track/Winter bike
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    I'm finding it slightly ironic that some who were praising Nibs for pushing hard downhill in the rain last year (and criticising Wiggins for lack of bike handling skills for subsequently crashing) are now criticising Evans for ploughing on when riders go down with less reckless tactics being employed. You can't have it both ways - you either neutralise every part of a stage when it rains and the road is downhill / twisty or you accept that bike racing involves dealing with the conditions presented to you.

    I don't know which is right or wrong but my instinct is if a rider is already riding hard when the crash happens they have the right to continue whereas hearing a clatter behind and using it as a queue to attack is wrong (Movistar did that a lot in the 2012 TDF).
  • tuneskyline
    tuneskyline Posts: 370
    frenchfighter wrote:
    tuneskyline wrote:
    If other riders cannot stay on 2 wheels and he can why should he or any of the others lose their advantage.

    If you look at the crash you will understand that skill has nothing to do with it. Just luck. You can be the best bike handler in the World but it is highly unlikely to prevent you falling on surfaces such as that.
    tuneskyline wrote:
    Quintana has done nothing this year. He looks Cr%p and this is a good excuse for him if he does not step up to the plate.

    You probably should watch more racing. He won the overall at San Luis including a dominant win. He came 2nd in Tirreno Adriatico. 2nd - best of the rest after Contador. 2nd on stage four. In Catalunya he was 5th including a third and a fifth placing. He was 10th yesterday.

    Cadel and co got themselves in the right place.That's the Skill. If Quintana had been on Evans wheel he would have not lost so much time. Being able to get to the front shows just how strong those riders were going.
    In my view Quintana has looked nothing like the rider of last year. He has fallen short [no pun intended]
    Any rider can crash any time in any conditions but the main contenders always try and get up the front so they don't get caught up in these kind of incidents. Armstrong was always at the front. Wiggins learnt the hard way. Sky now drill it. Moviestar have been quite aggressive this year but BMC got their tactics spot on for this stage. Race craft.

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