Porte out of Giro

135

Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Best for the fans not for the riders. Tour is about money so better in that respect for the riders. Agreed that he shouldnt be playing second fiddle on every GT.

    Sort of agree but to be the best for the fans really you would want all the top riders racing it. To take it to extremes would it still be the best GT for the fans if no Pro Tour teams rode it, only Pro Conti?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Of course there is a balance. Each year it has enough top riders to make it interesting.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    For me the Giro is definitely the best GT all year.

    I can't believe people are thinking Heano would have lead the squad.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    sjmclean wrote:
    I can't believe people are thinking Heano would have lead the squad.

    He was the original plan B last year.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    TailWindHome wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    I can't believe people are thinking Heano would have lead the squad.

    He was the original plan B last year.


    And he was plan A for the Vuelta and that didnt work out too well
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    It is a real shame that the best riders don't participate in all of the grand tours. I rather prefer the days when the best riders would compete year round - classics, grand tours, the works. I can't see a Hinault type rider appearing in the current setup.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    Right then stattos, what's the best placing for a rider that's ridden all three GTs in one season? Has anyone ever made the podium in all three?
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  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Right then stattos, what's the best placing for a rider that's ridden all three GTs in one season? Has anyone ever made the podium in all three?


    Are we including the particularly juiced years?
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Right then stattos, what's the best placing for a rider that's ridden all three GTs in one season? Has anyone ever made the podium in all three?


    Are we including the particularly juiced years?

    I don't think anyone has podiumed all three in one year, juiced or not, have they?
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    Yellow Peril wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Right then stattos, what's the best placing for a rider that's ridden all three GTs in one season? Has anyone ever made the podium in all three?


    Are we including the particularly juiced years?

    I don't think anyone has podiumed all three in one year, juiced or not, have they?

    There is no such word as podiumed. Stop it.

    Juice or no juice, the question stands...
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  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    Answer is no.

    Raphael Geminiani in 1955 closest: Giro 4th, Tour 6th, Vuelta 3rd.
    Also, Gastone Nencini in 1957 Giro 1st, Tour 6th, Vuelta 9th.

    Sastre the best performer across all three in the modern era:
    2006: Giro 43rd, Tour 4th, Vuelta 4th
    2010: Giro 8th, Tour 20th, Vuelta 8th

    Thank you wikipedia... which I may have mis-read...
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Yellow Peril wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Right then stattos, what's the best placing for a rider that's ridden all three GTs in one season? Has anyone ever made the podium in all three?


    Are we including the particularly juiced years?

    I don't think anyone has podiumed all three in one year, juiced or not, have they?

    There is no such word as podiumed. Stop it.

    Juice or no juice, the question stands...


    Grammar Nazi
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    I think Banesto in the early 90s are the only team to get on the podium of all three. They did it twice.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Closest you'll get is Indurain:

    TdF 1991 1st
    Vuelta 1991 2nd
    Giro 1992 1st

    Split over 2 seasons but within 1 year ...

    Sastre also podiumed 1/3/3 in 2008/2009

    (I got Sastre but had to Wiki BigMig as I knew he done the Tour/Giro doubles so wanted to check Vuelta's)
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    edited April 2014
    I'd settle for a rounded rider. Hinault for instance could win any of the GT's plus any of the classics:

    1977: Liege-Bastogne-Liege + Gent Wevelgem
    1978: Tour + Vuelta
    1979: Tour + Lombardia + Fleche Wallonne
    1980: Giro + Liege + Worlds
    1981: Tour + Paris Roubaix + Amstel Gold
    1982: Tour + Giro
    1983: Vuelta + Fleche
    1985: Tour + Giro

    So he won all of the GTs at least once, plus 3 of the 5 monuments (and a world title). Not sure we'll see such a rounded palmares ever again.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Hinault didn't Triple Crown so 1980 must be wrong ...
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    Beg your pardon, he withdrew from the Tour that year through injury
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    phreak wrote:
    Beg your pardon, he withdrew from the Tour that year through injury

    Porte's got a cracking season to look forward to then :wink:
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    phreak wrote:
    I'd settle for a rounded rider. Hinault for instance could win any of the GT's plus any of the classics:

    1977: Liege-Bastogne-Liege + Gent Wevelgem
    1978: Tour + Vuelta
    1979: Tour + Lombardia + Fleche Wallonne
    1980: Giro + Liege + Worlds
    1981: Tour + Paris Roubaix + Amstel Gold
    1982: Tour + Giro
    1983: Vuelta + Fleche
    1985: Tour + Giro

    So he won all of the GTs at least once, plus 3 of the 5 monuments (and a world title). Not sure we'll see such a rounded palmares ever again.

    Impressive though and rounded though that palmares is, the question was really about the top riders going head to head over the course of a season.

    Wiki's stats on GTs show just how hard it is (and always has been) to compete seriously in the GTs

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour_%28cycling%29

    Even just picking up some sprint stages - only three riders have won stages in all three tours in a season.
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  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    It's hard though because people pick and choose which ones to focus on. If all of the best riders did all three each year then it would be just as hard for all of them. The Grand Tours are the pinnacle of the support. More should be done to ensure the best riders are competing in all of them.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    phreak wrote:
    It's hard though because people pick and choose which ones to focus on. If all of the best riders did all three each year then it would be just as hard for all of them. The Grand Tours are the pinnacle of the support. More should be done to ensure the best riders are competing in all of them.

    If all the best riders did all three GTs they'd be at the mercy of the second and third tier riders that put everything into a single tour. They'd be half dead by the time they got to the end of la Vuelta, and then they'd get a couple of days off before having to prepare for the Giro the next season...
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  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Most people would say it's impossible to win two GTs in a calendar year in the current era. So riding all three to win is pretty ludicrous. If that's what is being suggested.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    I think Banesto in the early 90s are the only team to get on the podium of all three. They did it twice.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Milton50 wrote:
    Most people would say it's impossible to win two GTs in a calendar year in the current era. So riding all three to win is pretty ludicrous. If that's what is being suggested.

    My 'issue' is that with increasing specialization on the specific demands of one 3 week event in July, the trend of fewer and fewer top rider showdowns will accelerate. This season there may be one minor skirmish between the top 2 GT racers (slay me: Alberto). Ludicrous.

    For starters (smaller teams etc) I would give the top 5 finishers in the Giro a one minute time bonus at the Tour. Or something.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    phreak wrote:
    It's hard though because people pick and choose which ones to focus on. If all of the best riders did all three each year then it would be just as hard for all of them. The Grand Tours are the pinnacle of the support. More should be done to ensure the best riders are competing in all of them.

    If all the best riders did all three GTs they'd be at the mercy of the second and third tier riders that put everything into a single tour. They'd be half dead by the time they got to the end of la Vuelta, and then they'd get a couple of days off before having to prepare for the Giro the next season...

    I envisaged the best being the top 30-40 riders, just as you get 32 seeds for grand slams in tennis. It's just peculiar that as a sport there are three big stage races each year, yet it's rare that any of the very best riders compete in more than one of them. That's not a good situation. As fans you want to see the best riders, and I'm sure organizers would want to see the best riders too.
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    Milton50 wrote:
    Most people would say it's impossible to win two GTs in a calendar year in the current era. So riding all three to win is pretty ludicrous. If that's what is being suggested.

    It's only impossible because hardly any of the best riders compete in more than one of them. It wouldn't be ludicrous at all if the best riders had to ride each Grand Tour.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    phreak wrote:
    Milton50 wrote:
    Most people would say it's impossible to win two GTs in a calendar year in the current era. So riding all three to win is pretty ludicrous. If that's what is being suggested.

    It's only impossible because hardly any of the best riders compete in more than one of them. It wouldn't be ludicrous at all if the best riders had to ride each Grand Tour.

    That's only going to work if every single rider from each squad races all three Grand Tours. Otherwise the Tour will be perpetually won by the second tier of GC guys (because the top GC riders are knackered after the Giro). Then by the time the Vuelta comes around the biggest GC names will literally just be riding around for the sake of it.

    So the reason you want the big names to ride each GT, i.e. to have a showdown in the biggest races of the year, is completely lost because they'll be constantly out the back and away from the TV screens.

    I understand your frustration but there is no easy way to solve it.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    Macaloon wrote:
    Milton50 wrote:
    Most people would say it's impossible to win two GTs in a calendar year in the current era. So riding all three to win is pretty ludicrous. If that's what is being suggested.

    My 'issue' is that with increasing specialization on the specific demands of one 3 week event in July, the trend of fewer and fewer top rider showdowns will accelerate. This season there may be one minor skirmish between the top 2 GT racers (slay me: Alberto). Ludicrous.

    For starters (smaller teams etc) I would give the top 5 finishers in the Giro a one minute time bonus at the Tour. Or something.

    Some showdowns outside the GTs would be nice, but the real specialisation is stage V one day. That's relatively new. We're unlikely to ever see the absolute top riders battling each other through multiple GTs, the most any will ride is two. Unless, of course, our top tier is a lot broader than it is now. There are very few riders that would fancy their chances in a GT that had both Froome and Contador in it, taking it seriously. Perhaps if they were two weeks instead of three, but good luck passing that resolution!
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    If you want to compel riders to ride all 3 GTs in a season expect people to start back down the road of ever riskier doping. Besides, short of creating some kind of special prize based on combined time from all 3 how would you stop them abandoning. Hardly any rider even starts all three, very few finish all three and no-one competes at all three. This is not a new phenomenon. I would settle for seeing the end do specialisation and the best riders meeting in one day races, short stage races and one or two GTs each season but even if that could be engineered no-one can force them to race.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Some showdowns outside the GTs would be nice, but the real specialisation is stage V one day. That's relatively new. We're unlikely to ever see the absolute top riders battling each other through multiple GTs, the most any will ride is two. Unless, of course, our top tier is a lot broader than it is now. There are very few riders that would fancy their chances in a GT that had both Froome and Contador in it, taking it seriously. Perhaps if they were two weeks instead of three, but good luck passing that resolution!

    I think this degree of specialisation is unhealthy for the competitive appeal of the sport. How sad if you had to completely avoid classics to stand a chance in the Alps. And it would appear that the current demands of GTs, especially the Tour (Evans & Wiggins winged, Froome-dogged by niggles), are unhealthy for riders.

    F1 switched to pedal-powered cars. Minor tinkering with GTs might prevent top riders becoming best-in-show chow.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.

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