The Hour *** spoilers ***

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tempted to put a spread bet on he won't get over 55km.

I agree, but I wouldn't expect to get rich doing it.

Paul 8v

I have no doubt he'll break it, I hope not by that much otherwise we're back to where we were when it got ignored for 9 years after a Ondřej Sosenka got the "Merckx" record. I want the Boardman/Obree style battles back, that's much better for the fans. Surely even Wiggins can't have 55+ KM in him?

Speaking of Sosenka, there was talk of him having a pop at the current one? I'm guessing that faded away as does the rider not have to have a UCI bio passport? I'm sure I saw that discussed somewhere?

mike6

You could argue that the only person he is heaping the pressure on by quoting a specific distance is himself. If he now breaks the record but "only" achieves 54.9 K in the hour he is leaving himself open to ridicule, by some.

Also, if he goes over 55k, for others in the future the fear factor comes in, do you risk spoiling a reputation by falling short in the hour? When the Merckx record was reinstated most of the later top riders either failed or were not prepared to risk there reputation. The same could happen.

dav1d1

After being at the velodrome on Saturday watching dowsett I like him even more than I did before as a rider, just the way he was with people after it not big headed or anything! I think wiggins has now set pressure on him as if he doesn't smash the record and get 55+ and it can happen have a michanical or something and it's gone! But we all know he's going to set a high record but dowset certain has more than 53km in him

Ashbeck

OnYourRight wrote:

Come on, it’s pretty arrogant. It’s also delusional: he has no idea who will come down the pipe over the next twenty years. And with his distance as a target, it will likely be broken before twenty years and maybe in two.

I dont think its arrogant to say he wants to set a benchmark or delusional, he knows his cycling history and knows full well the chances of any record set by him lasting 20 years is pretty remote. Its just human nature to set a goal in your mind and want to acheive it, we do it every day, even if its something small.

If you stood up and said 'i would love to pay my mortgage off and be debt free for the next twenty years' does that make you arrogant or delusional just because the majority of people cant?? Of course it doesnt, its your dream/ goal/ objective, and youre just expressing your opinions and desires.

Wiggo is just doing the same thing, albeit at the pinnacle of cycling. Wether it happens or not is a different point entirely, it doesnt mean hes arrogant in expressing it.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tempted to put a spread bet on he won't get over 55km.

I agree, but I wouldn't expect to get rich doing it.

Depends on your VaR, innit.

Daz555

mike6 wrote:

You could argue that the only person he is heaping the pressure on by quoting a specific distance is himself.

Maybe that's the point for Wiggo.

Daz555

mike6 wrote:

You could argue that the only person he is heaping the pressure on by quoting a specific distance is himself.

Maybe that's the point for Wiggo.

ai_1

Ashbeck wrote:

OnYourRight wrote:

Come on, it’s pretty arrogant. It’s also delusional: he has no idea who will come down the pipe over the next twenty years. And with his distance as a target, it will likely be broken before twenty years and maybe in two.

I dont think its arrogant to say he wants to set a benchmark or delusional, he knows his cycling history and knows full well the chances of any record set by him lasting 20 years is pretty remote. Its just human nature to set a goal in your mind and want to acheive it, we do it every day, even if its something small.

If you stood up and said 'i would love to pay my mortgage off and be debt free for the next twenty years' does that make you arrogant or delusional just because the majority of people cant?? Of course it doesnt, its your dream/ goal/ objective, and youre just expressing your opinions and desires.

Wiggo is just doing the same thing, albeit at the pinnacle of cycling. Wether it happens or not is a different point entirely, it doesnt mean hes arrogant in expressing it.

You are talking like he said he would like to set a record that would last 20 years. I wouldn't have any criticism of someone saying that. What I suggested shows some arrogance is saying that he think's if he does what he expects to do, it will last 20 years. That's a bit different.
Anyway, it's a bit of a silly discussion. Who cares what he thinks or whether he's arrogant or not. I've never met the guy, I don't know the guy, I never will.

maddog 2

Rominger did 55.29km in '94 on a 'non-superman' bike. Surely Wiggo can match that?



Or was Rominger juiced-up?

Yellow Peril

maddog 2 wrote:

Rominger did 55.29km in '94 on a 'non-superman' bike. Surely Wiggo can match that?



Or was Rominger juiced-up?

Just follow the bear carrying a roll of Andrex into the woods for your answer

maddog 2

.:D

ai_1

maddog 2 wrote:

Rominger did 55.29km in '94 on a 'non-superman' bike. Surely Wiggo can match that?



Or was Rominger juiced-up?

Maybe this is why he thinks his record would last 20 years if he went over 55km? Because it's 20 years since the last one?

No_Ta_Doctor

Ai_1 wrote:

maddog 2 wrote:

Rominger did 55.29km in '94 on a 'non-superman' bike. Surely Wiggo can match that?



Or was Rominger juiced-up?

Maybe this is why he thinks his record would last 20 years if he went over 55km? Because it's 20 years since the last one?

Even with the possibility of improved bikes, training etc, 55km would be a massive distance for any future riders. Given that most riders only start looking at The Hour toward the end of their careers, and most don't want to set themselves up for failure, it's far from inconceivable that 55km would last 20 years.

frenchfighter

Cancellara and Martin are going to do it at some point. Am sure Phinney will give it a go and a number of other strong TT riders who are at the start of their career. Wiggins is good but to write off guys like Big Tone just like that is ridiculous.

Big Tone and Spartacus have 7? Worlds TT wins compared to Wiggins 1 and they have beaten Wiggins on many occasions in the other TTs.

I hope Big Tone comes out and hammers this joker.

frenchfighter

inseine

frenchfighter wrote:

Cancellara and Martin are going to do it at some point. Am sure Phinney will give it a go and a number of other strong TT riders who are at the start of their career. Wiggins is good but to write off guys like Big Tone just like that is ridiculous.

Big Tone and Spartacus have 7? Worlds TT wins compared to Wiggins 1 and they have beaten Wiggins on many occasions in the other TTs.

I hope Big Tone comes out and hammers this joker.

I don't think they're being written off, I just don't think they've made any noises about doing it have they? Canc was set to have a go but ducked out when the rules changed, not heard anything since.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Cancellara and Martin are going to do it at some point. Am sure Phinney will give it a go and a number of other strong TT riders who are at the start of their career. Wiggins is good but to write off guys like Big Tone just like that is ridiculous.

Big Tone and Spartacus have 7? Worlds TT wins compared to Wiggins 1 and they have beaten Wiggins on many occasions in the other TTs.

I hope Big Tone comes out and hammers this joker.

What are their palmares like on the track then? Because that's where it'll be ridden. But don't let that get in the way of your ignorant ranting. :roll:

frenchfighter

It's more or less irrelevant. It is how hard you can push yourself for an hour. Whether that is on a track or on the road, it is the same for everyone.

Unless you would like to explain how Wiggins can get an extra 1 km over Tony Martin because he has not ridden one the track?

inseine

frenchfighter wrote:

It's more or less irrelevant. It is how hard you can push yourself for an hour. Whether that is on a track or on the road, it is the same for everyone.

Unless you would like to explain how Wiggins can get an extra 1 km over Tony Martin because he has not ridden one the track?

It's different riding on the track to the road, so some time to get accustomed is required but it is true that many of the record holders have not been trackies. Canc and Martin may or may not be in with a shout, but there's no point talking them up if they don't put themselves up for it.

keyser__soze

frenchfighter wrote:

It's more or less irrelevant. It is how hard you can push yourself for an hour. Whether that is on a track or on the road, it is the same for everyone.

Yeah, cos there are these huge banked corners every seven seconds on the roads every TT is held on :roll: Wiggo has a big advantage here with his track background - even Spartacus thinks it plays a non-trivial effect : http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/ ... ord_360833

From inrng:

Easy? Certainly not. A fast time trial on an ordinary day is no gentle spin but the track imposes extra constraints. The G-force of lapping the boards at speed puts extra pressure on the contact points and strains the arms and legs. It’s said the centrifugal aspect reduces blood circulation, a giant blood spinner.

frenchfighter

Of course it benefits him, but no where near enough imo for it to be a game changer.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

It's more or less irrelevant. It is how hard you can push yourself for an hour. Whether that is on a track or on the road, it is the same for everyone.

Unless you would like to explain how Wiggins can get an extra 1 km over Tony Martin because he has not ridden one the track?

I never said he would get an extra 1km over Martin, so please take your strawman and shove it where the sun don't shine.

He only needs to set a record high enough that making an attempt at it becomes a big ask, that carries a high risk of failure. Historically, attempts at the hour have been limited by riders not wanting to try and fail.

Having not just experience on the track, but an incredible pedigree, is a huge advantage over riders that aren't used to it. If you knew anything at all about track cycling then you'd know this.

keyser__soze

frenchfighter wrote:

Of course it benefits him, but no where near enough imo for it to be a game changer.

Both Martin (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... 015-145549) and Cancellara (above) have suggested it does play sufficient effect as to be worth mentioning, but hey, why take the opinion of two of the world's finest TTers when some desk jockey thinks different.

TheBigBean

I'd like to see Tony Martin give it a go. I'd be very surprised if Cancellera tried - he's unlikely to break the record and it would be at the expense of road performance.

Yellow Peril

To be fair at least one none trackie (Voigt) has acquitted himself well and one highly experienced trackie (Bobridge) has made a pig's ear of the thing.

I don't think anything can be relied on in a riders background on this point

rick_chasey

Keyser__Soze wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Of course it benefits him, but no where near enough imo for it to be a game changer.

Both Martin (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... 015-145549) and Cancellara (above) have suggested it does play sufficient effect as to be worth mentioning, but hey, why take the opinion of two of the world's finest TTers when some desk jockey thinks different.

Why not mention it?

It's virtually entire about the type of effort, and the type of effort for the hour does not come close to any effort done on the track normally. It is closest to a proper road TT, which is usually around the hour mark (ish).

What kind of advantage do you envisage a trackie having over someone who isn't? Ability to hold the black line? I imagine that can be overcome fairly easily....

mfin

Keyser__Soze wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

It's more or less irrelevant. It is how hard you can push yourself for an hour. Whether that is on a track or on the road, it is the same for everyone.

Yeah, cos there are these huge banked corners every seven seconds on the roads every TT is held on :roll: Wiggo has a big advantage here with his track background - even Spartacus thinks it plays a non-trivial effect : http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/ ... ord_360833

From inrng:

Easy? Certainly not. A fast time trial on an ordinary day is no gentle spin but the track imposes extra constraints. The G-force of lapping the boards at speed puts extra pressure on the contact points and strains the arms and legs. It’s said the centrifugal aspect reduces blood circulation, a giant blood spinner.

...yes, which they don't go up. For example, here's a video of Alex Dowsett not going up them for an hour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mzp08nLi5g

(That said, of course riding the track is physically different, enough to give an advantage to those with lots and lots of experience compared to those with next to none).

No_Ta_Doctor

Rick Chasey wrote:

Keyser__Soze wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Of course it benefits him, but no where near enough imo for it to be a game changer.

Both Martin (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... 015-145549) and Cancellara (above) have suggested it does play sufficient effect as to be worth mentioning, but hey, why take the opinion of two of the world's finest TTers when some desk jockey thinks different.

Why not mention it?

It's virtually entire about the type of effort, and the type of effort for the hour does not come close to any effort done on the track normally. It is closest to a proper road TT, which is usually around the hour mark (ish).

What kind of advantage do you envisage a trackie having over someone who isn't? Ability to hold the black line? I imagine that can be overcome fairly easily....

Yes, it's above and beyond normal track efforts... BUT...

We can agree that it's all about a) putting out the watts and b) transferring those watts into mileage as efficiently as possible, yes?

Now the second part of that is all about technique. There's plenty of overlap between TT technique and track technique, but there are also differences. You think it's easy to hold the black line, but it actually takes focus. Naturally, if holding the black line is second nature to you then the focus required is less. That's the sort of thing that pays off in the last 20 minutes.

Then there's riding to a predefined schedule, which can also be understood as power output. Even in a flat TT, holding a power output involves acceleration, deceleration, gear changes etc. Not so on the track - there's no let up in cadence and power. Have a look at the consistency of Dowsett's ride. A powerful TTer like Martin can gain significant time on his competition by his ability to accelerate quickly after braking for a corner - but that's not an advantage he's got on track. A good TTer will also gain advantage from braking late and choosing his line through corners, hiding from the wind where possible and choosing the better tarmac where there's a choice. All skills that are useless on the track.

This is all before considering the physical challenges the banking places on a rider at near 55km/hr.

No_Ta_Doctor

mfin wrote:

Keyser__Soze wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

It's more or less irrelevant. It is how hard you can push yourself for an hour. Whether that is on a track or on the road, it is the same for everyone.

Yeah, cos there are these huge banked corners every seven seconds on the roads every TT is held on :roll: Wiggo has a big advantage here with his track background - even Spartacus thinks it plays a non-trivial effect : http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/ ... ord_360833

From inrng:

Easy? Certainly not. A fast time trial on an ordinary day is no gentle spin but the track imposes extra constraints. The G-force of lapping the boards at speed puts extra pressure on the contact points and strains the arms and legs. It’s said the centrifugal aspect reduces blood circulation, a giant blood spinner.

...yes, which they don't go up. For example, here's a video of Alex Dowsett not going up them for an hour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mzp08nLi5g

(That said, of course riding the track is physically different, enough to give an advantage to those with lots and lots of experience compared to those with next to none).

The inside line at the corners is also banked, and given that the curve there is at its tightest, that's where the centrifugal forces are strongest. Physics, innit?