The Hour *** spoilers ***

xavierdisley

Pokerface wrote:

You could fill his holes in with carbon. The rules are the same for both bikes. And the rule has always been that you can't tape over holes. There has never been a restriction on adding carbon.

Under no circumstances could the holes have been filled OR taped direct from the UCI.

Pokerface

xavierdisley wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

You could fill his holes in with carbon. The rules are the same for both bikes. And the rule has always been that you can't tape over holes. There has never been a restriction on adding carbon.

Under no circumstances could the holes have been filled OR taped direct from the UCI.

If you cover the holes in carbon, you aren't filling them. It's a subtly lost in translation.

wallace_and_gromit

Pokerface wrote:

With respect, the UCI rules may seem arbitrary, but they are there for a reason.

The ones brought in to stop Obree riding didn't seem in the least bit arbitrary arbitrary. But they were definitely brought in for a reason. I guess the issue is whether the reason is a good one!

keezx

The current UCI rules seem a bit arbitrary , but I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons is getting rid of ALL the 90's attempts regardless the bikes.
The revolution of the bikes was obvious, but but with today's acknowledge the "human/medical" revolution played an equal role.....
Rominger's last attempt was on a bike with no better aerodynamics then allowed now, but the guy himself was most likely "enhanced" as we know now.

cougie

Did Wiggo mention when he'd be going for the hour ? He's clearly got the form at the moment - I wonder if the bike is ready, and I wonder if his experience on the track will give him much advantage ? He's clearly going to smash JV's distance.

RichN95.

cougie wrote:

Did Wiggo mention when he'd be going for the hour ? He's clearly got the form at the moment - I wonder if the bike is ready, and I wonder if his experience on the track will give him much advantage ? He's clearly going to smash JV's distance.

June 2015. He said he could go and do it next week, but he only wants to do it once so he's going to do it properly.

inseine

RichN95 wrote:

cougie wrote:

Did Wiggo mention when he'd be going for the hour ? He's clearly got the form at the moment - I wonder if the bike is ready, and I wonder if his experience on the track will give him much advantage ? He's clearly going to smash JV's distance.

June 2015. He said he could go and do it next week, but he only wants to do it once so he's going to do it properly.

In a way it would be a shame if he 'put it on the shelf'. i would be nice to see a good ding dong between the big boys, bit like Obree and Boardman.
I think it was on The Cycling podcast they mentioned some polevaulter who only ever broke the record by a small amount but made a career out of beating it twenty times or some such.

RichN95.

inseine wrote:

I think it was on The Cycling podcast they mentioned some polevaulter who only ever broke the record by a small amount but made a career out of beating it twenty times or some such.

Sergey Bubka. He used to get bonuses from meeting promoters when he broke a world record so he sensibly broke it by one centimetre at a time. (As seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_pole ... rogression )

Paul 8v

17 times? He certainly milked that one

Pross

I can remember Bubka doing that. He also made sure he didn't jump higher than he needed to in order to win at championships as there was no money for beating records there. A great athlete but just too cynical for me to admire, especially in supposedly amateur times.

oldwelshman

Daz555 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Nice work Jens!!

I am 54km bid if Big Tone hits the boards.

When Tony Martin decides to do it, it'll be out of reach for a generation (tech advances excepted)

Which is why Wiggo needs to go first. And why Martin will I'm sure want to let him go first - assuming Martin is really that interested. Wiggo (or even Canc) will move the mark to a very very high level and make Martin's crack all the more credible.

Martin will not beat wiggo on the track at 1 hour effort. You cananot just shove a huge gear on and plough through. Wiggo could break it now but twill wait and prepare for it probab;y and he will do a time that will stay for ages unles someone like Burbridge trains for it. Someone above said 50 riders could break the new record, thats bollox

morstar

oldwelshman wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Nice work Jens!!

I am 54km bid if Big Tone hits the boards.

When Tony Martin decides to do it, it'll be out of reach for a generation (tech advances excepted)

Which is why Wiggo needs to go first. And why Martin will I'm sure want to let him go first - assuming Martin is really that interested. Wiggo (or even Canc) will move the mark to a very very high level and make Martin's crack all the more credible.

Martin will not beat wiggo on the track at 1 hour effort. You cananot just shove a huge gear on and plough through. Wiggo could break it now but twill wait and prepare for it probab;y and he will do a time that will stay for ages unles someone like Burbridge trains for it. Someone above said 50 riders could break the new record, thats bollox

That's just someone making a linear assumption that there are 50 better TTers than Jens. There could actually be 50 if the sport were opened up to the likes of Bottril but probably not from the pro peloton.

xavierdisley

pinno

^What's the logic behind these guestimations?

xavierdisley

"Guestimations"

It's based on altitude effects (aerodynamic benefits and power losses) as well as how quick the tracks run in isolation.

pinno

xavierdisley wrote:

"Guestimations"

It's based on altitude effects (aerodynamic benefits and power losses) as well as how quick the tracks run in isolation.

That's made my mind up. When I have a go at the hour record, it will be in Mexico on a set of rollers.

FJS

xavierdisley wrote:

"Guestimations"

It's based on altitude effects (aerodynamic benefits and power losses) as well as how quick the tracks run in isolation.

The effect of altitude, OK, but how are the effects of how quick the track runs quantified? Grenchen is not at altitude, well, not significant at least

xavierdisley

Yep it is - the other differences include things like rolling resistance and typical climates for the areas. At 450m you're losing a few watts in power output but the altitude is certainly enough to speed you up due to reduced air density.

Monty Dog

Wiggo will put the record on the shelf for a while - neither Martin or Cancellara have trained to go at 60kph on the track and being heavier, the effects of centrifugal force will make it a lot harder for bigger riders.

oldwelshman

morstar wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Nice work Jens!!

I am 54km bid if Big Tone hits the boards.

When Tony Martin decides to do it, it'll be out of reach for a generation (tech advances excepted)

Which is why Wiggo needs to go first. And why Martin will I'm sure want to let him go first - assuming Martin is really that interested. Wiggo (or even Canc) will move the mark to a very very high level and make Martin's crack all the more credible.

Martin will not beat wiggo on the track at 1 hour effort. You cananot just shove a huge gear on and plough through. Wiggo could break it now but twill wait and prepare for it probab;y and he will do a time that will stay for ages unles someone like Burbridge trains for it. Someone above said 50 riders could break the new record, thats bollox

That's just someone making a linear assumption that there are 50 better TTers than Jens. There could actually be 50 if the sport were opened up to the likes of Bottril but probably not from the pro peloton.

Good TTers do not necessarily make good track riders. I have been on the track with a couple of TTrs who have done a short 20 for a 10 but got dropped on a vets session on the track :-)

Pokerface

oldwelshman wrote:

Good TTers do not necessarily make good track riders. I have been on the track with a couple of TTrs who have done a short 20 for a 10 but got dropped on a vets session on the track :-)

Yes, but that's like saying good TTers do not make good road racers. Some do, some don't. TTing is (generally) about steady state power whilst road racing is about so much more. iI can ride a half-decent TT but suck at road racing. I can't handle accelerations.

A good TTer will be a good pursuit (or potentially hour record) rider on the track. It's the same skill set to a large degree.

deejay

:roll: "Thinks Aloud"
Now what were Eddy Merckx and Fausto Coppi good at.
Oh yes - Time Trials, Grand Tours, World Championships, Classics & Monuments and Six Day Winter Track Races.

keef_zip

deejay wrote:

:roll: "Thinks Aloud"
Now what were Eddy Merckx and Fausto Coppi good at.
Oh yes - Time Trials, Grand Tours, World Championships, Classics & Monuments and Six Day Winter Track Races.

In an age where there were no specialists like there are today. They were good riders, but put them in the modern age and their results would be nowhere near as good. Nowhere near.

Pokerface

deejay wrote:

:roll: "Thinks Aloud"
Now what were Eddy Merckx and Fausto Coppi good at.
Oh yes - Time Trials, Grand Tours, World Championships, Classics & Monuments and Six Day Winter Track Races.

Did Merckx and Coppi ever actually ride a TT on a TT bike? I don't think so. So basically back then, TTing was just another form of road racing! Same bikes, same position, same aerodynamics....


Anyway, I said some TTers are good road racers, some aren't. But a good TTer will be good on the track in something like the hour.

oldwelshman

Pokerface wrote:

deejay wrote:

:roll: "Thinks Aloud"
Now what were Eddy Merckx and Fausto Coppi good at.
Oh yes - Time Trials, Grand Tours, World Championships, Classics & Monuments and Six Day Winter Track Races.

Did Merckx and Coppi ever actually ride a TT on a TT bike? I don't think so. So basically back then, TTing was just another form of road racing! Same bikes, same position, same aerodynamics....


Anyway, I said some TTers are good road racers, some aren't. But a good TTer will be good on the track in something like the hour.

Good but not as good as Wiggo or Mayer, or even more so than Burbidge if he decided to take on the hour.

Yellow Peril

Apparently Sosenska coming out of retirement and lining up for a tilt next year...how underwhelming is that?

ugo.santalucia

keef_zip wrote:

deejay wrote:

:roll: "Thinks Aloud"
Now what were Eddy Merckx and Fausto Coppi good at.
Oh yes - Time Trials, Grand Tours, World Championships, Classics & Monuments and Six Day Winter Track Races.

In an age where there were no specialists like there are today. They were good riders, but put them in the modern age and their results would be nowhere near as good. Nowhere near.

Not a million years ago Cunego won a grand Tour and some monuments... Valverde very nearly did the same... Nibali could win a monument or two...
Yes, Merckx today wouldn't win 500 races... he would probably still win 200 though... he might not win LBL, he would still win Roubaix and Flanders... and MS and the Worlds (more than once)... he might still win the Tour, maybe not the Giro

Daz555

Yellow Peril wrote:

Apparently Sosenska coming out of retirement and lining up for a tilt next year...how underwhelming is that?

Let him. Regardless of his training or drugs, Wiggo will destroy the time he sets.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Yes, Merckx today wouldn't win 500 races... he would probably still win 200 though...

He didn't win 500 races back then either.
Of his oft cited 525 wins, 'only' 445 were as a pro. And of those 164 were criteriums and around twenty were track or cyclocross.
So in reality he 'only' had around 260 of his victories we would count today.

It's still probably unbeatable, but not has unbeatable as some make out.

Daz555

RichN95 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Yes, Merckx today wouldn't win 500 races... he would probably still win 200 though...

He didn't win 500 races back then either.
Of his oft cited 525 wins, 'only' 445 were as a pro. And of those 164 were criteriums and around twenty were track or cyclocross.
So in reality he 'only' had around 260 of his victories we would count today.

It's still probably unbeatable, but not has unbeatable as some make out.

I'd put Merckx down as a rider who, in the modern age, would have specialised. Into which area though? Classic, GTs? Either way he'd have ended up so good at one discipline that he'd likely have won nowt in any of the others.

It's all just pub talk though!