Alpe D'HuZes

spasypaddy

diet is the hardest thing to crack.

personally ive been working with a diet coach for the past 4 weeks and have lost 5kg whilst increasing strength and hopefully increasing speed (need to do a new FTP test in the next 10 days). He's not getting me doing anything i didn't already know but im answerable to him so i am much tighter and havent flinched from the plan yet.

jzed

To demonstrate the weight comment.

In the 2011 Marmotte, I did the 4 climbs in a combined time of 6 hours 9 minutes. Weight 105kg, average watts 280.

In the 2012 Marmotte, weighing 97kg, 5 hours 40, average watts 278. So around 10% less time from 10% less weight

I actually climbed the Alpe in 2012 with 18 less watts and went 2 minutes faster.

There was a massive drop off between my watts on the first climb (300) and the Alpe (250). If I had a power meter I could probably have ridden them at 285/290w consistently and gone faster. As it was I went out too fast.

If I did marmotte again I would mix my 2011 and 2012 training regimes. 2011 was endurance. 2012 was 1 hour FTP sessions. And lose weight. And some how get gearing lower than 34x28, as I was begging for a spinnier gear at times, especially those first few ramps of the Alpe.

The heat also plays a very big part. Last year was brutal. I couldn't function. I have ignored my climbing stats, as despite the above being pretty rubbish, 2013 was just complete and utter pants.

meanredspider

Yup - fully recognise the opportunity weight gives me and am fully committed to dropping it (I lost 15kg in 15 weeks several years ago and that weight has stayed off - it would be great to make another breakthrough)

I'll try to post a pic of me so you get some idea of my build. I'm 6' on the button and have a 34" waist (jeans size). I've definitely got excess fat on my torso though I'm also often surprised when people I've never met before say I look like I have an "athletic" build. I'm 95kg on the nail right now which is probably 5kg over my summer "event" weight. On the plus side, I'm living most of the week in my apartment in Amsterdam on my own so I'm not tempted or distracted by the nice stuff my wife and kids eat. I don't actually drink much alcohol and practically no soda (certainly not the sugary stuff). On the downside, I need to prepare everything myself! That said, there's some fabulous "healthy" supermarkets nearby and the canteen at work has a wide range of options.

meanredspider

Not the best photos but the only ones I could find that give you some idea of build. One is at the end of L2E and the other was taken on New Year's Day this year

greg66_tri_v2.0

Def not a beanpole build. It's a bit arbitrary, but I would have thought aim for sub 85 and see where you end up.

For me, for pure weight loss, I've yet to find anything to rival the 5:2 diet. However, it doesn't sit well with doing large volumes of endurance work, and in the end I had to abandon it for that very reason.

meanredspider

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Def not a beanpole build. It's a bit arbitrary, but I would have thought aim for sub 85 and see where you end up.

For me, for pure weight loss, I've yet to find anything to rival the 5:2 diet. However, it doesn't sit well with doing large volumes of endurance work, and in the end I had to abandon it for that very reason.

Nope - I put muscle on far too easily too. My legs are very lean even now - it's the usual "hard-to-shift" middle-aged stuff. I tried 5:2 but it was truly miserable - I think I'd really struggle with my very busy job too.

itboffin

cough cough er diet hard first then train like a mentalist not at the same time

meanredspider

itboffin wrote:

cough cough er diet hard first then train like a mentalist not at the same time

Anybody got norovirus I could borrow :shock:

itboffin

dont flush to toilet all day then drink two pints from the fount of all knowledge if you dont actually die i'm pretty damn sure you'll lose a lot of weight

dont do this

Kieran_Burns

I think it worth re-iterating at this point, now all the sensible advice has been given, that you are complete and utter f*cking window licking loon for even contemplating this.

I just thought it needed to be remembered that this is where the conversation started.

itboffin

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I think it worth re-iterating at this point, now all the sensible advice has been given, that you are complete and utter f*cking window licking loon for even contemplating this.

I just thought it needed to be remembered that this is where the conversation started.

due to a lack of +1 options on this forum

rick_chasey

Out of interest how many km is that in total?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rick Chasey wrote:

Out of interest how many km is that in total?

Roughly 155-160km, half of which - just under 50 miles- is at an average gradient of 8%.

Total elevation gain in the region of 6400m. Or just under 3/4 of the way up Everest.

The Marmotte has 5200m of climbing with considerably more recovery time between climbs.

Sounds lovely!

meanredspider

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Out of interest how many km is that in total?

Roughly 155-160km, half of which - just under 50 miles- is at an average gradient of 8%.

Total elevation gain in the region of 6400m. Or just under 3/4 of the way up Everest.

The Marmotte has 5200m of climbing with considerably more recovery time between climbs.

Sounds lovely!

Yes - what I have to take advantage of, if I have any chance of succeeding, is the time I have and pacing myself accordingly. It isn't any sort if a timed event - I just need to finish (without dying and having my bike nicked )

rick_chasey

meanredspider wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Out of interest how many km is that in total?

Roughly 155-160km, half of which - just under 50 miles- is at an average gradient of 8%.

Total elevation gain in the region of 6400m. Or just under 3/4 of the way up Everest.

The Marmotte has 5200m of climbing with considerably more recovery time between climbs.

Sounds lovely!

Yes - what I have to take advantage of, if I have any chance of succeeding, is the time I have and pacing myself accordingly. It isn't any sort if a timed event - I just need to finish (without dying and having my bike nicked )

No time limit? I have the solution! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgIL6eHHgZU

meanredspider

Can't see the video right now but I have at least 12 hours - so more that 2 hours per ascent (I only need to descend 5 times in the time)

jzed

meanredspider wrote:

Can't see the video right now but I have at least 12 hours - so more that 2 hours per ascent (I only need to descend 5 times in the time)

I think I'd be more worried by the descending. 7-8000 tired dutchmen all trying to descent without a blowout.

meanredspider

JZed wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Can't see the video right now but I have at least 12 hours - so more that 2 hours per ascent (I only need to descend 5 times in the time)

I think I'd be more worried by the descending. 7-8000 tired dutchmen all trying to descent without a blowout.

It'll only be like my morning commute (sped up by a factor of 10) :shock:

itboffin

JZed wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Can't see the video right now but I have at least 12 hours - so more that 2 hours per ascent (I only need to descend 5 times in the time)

I think I'd be more worried by the descending. 7-8000 tired dutchmen all trying to descent without a blowout.

well that's never going to happen, actually that reminded me of the marmotte again i've never heard so many exploding tyres who's telling Z dutch to pump their tyres so high?

altitude plus high pressure = bad

in fact i actually lost a lot of time descending due to dodging so many blowouts, there was even one going up the 2nd ramp of ADH

meanredspider

Things are looking positive on the weight front. Scales said 93kg this morning which means I'm probably 94kg in reality. I don't think that's down to glycogen loss (with which comes a load of water loss too) as I've just been careful about what I eat rather than any sort of starvation diet. It's about normal too - I have no worries about getting to 90kg - it's getting below say 88kg that I find almost impossible (I don't think I got there after doing 540 miles in a week last May)

daxplusplus

meanredspider wrote:

Things are looking positive on the weight front. Scales said 93kg this morning which means I'm probably 94kg in reality. I don't think that's down to glycogen loss (with which comes a load of water loss too) as I've just been careful about what I eat rather than any sort of starvation diet. It's about normal too - I have no worries about getting to 90kg - it's getting below say 88kg that I find almost impossible (I don't think I got there after doing 540 miles in a week last May)

I can't remember whether I mentioned treating ride days as different from non ride days from a food perspective?

And then on ride days treating the time immediately after a ride differently from the rest of the day.

It's working for me at the moment (steady loss week in, week out for the last 6 weeks but still putting in a lot of miles) and seems to be a sustainable outlook on food generally while doing a lot of exercise - rather than an actual diet.

But then there is a million and one people out there with diet advice :roll:

One quote that sticks in my mind is - "If you want something you’ve never had, you must be willing to do something you’ve never done" I guess that applies to a diet as well as just about anything else.

Good luck.

jonginge

itboffin wrote:

JZed wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Can't see the video right now but I have at least 12 hours - so more that 2 hours per ascent (I only need to descend 5 times in the time)

I think I'd be more worried by the descending. 7-8000 tired dutchmen all trying to descent without a blowout.

well that's never going to happen, actually that reminded me of the marmotte again i've never heard so many exploding tyres who's telling Z dutch to pump their tyres so high?

altitude plus high pressure = bad

in fact i actually lost a lot of time descending due to dodging so many blowouts, there was even one going up the 2nd ramp of ADH

Yeah, people tend to pump to maximum just before the event at six in the morning. The ambient temperature rise during the day can be thirty degrees. Add heating due to excessive braking and .... BOOM

meanredspider

DaxPlusPlus wrote:

One quote that sticks in my mind is - "If you want something you’ve never had, you must be willing to do something you’ve never done" I guess that applies to a diet as well as just about anything else.

Good luck.

Thanks for this. Yes, that quote is broadly the same as the definition of madness being doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. I just don't know what that different thing is - eating even less? I thought I was in pretty heavy calorie deficit on L2E - 460 miles in 4 days with only 2 feed stops per day during riding and pretty crap accommodation where I actually struggled to find any food - but that didn't really work.

meanredspider

Tipping it down with rain here today so bit the bullet and did 3 hours 37 mins on the turbo aiming at my all-day riding HR of 140bpm. Interesting that, with the "weight" upped from 90kg to 98kg, and avg HR down from 156bpm to 142bpm, my time for Telegraphe and Galibier went up from 2:37 to 3:37. Don't feel anything like as knackered though but still burned plenty of calories which was the goal. Scales reading 93kg again this morning.

cjcp

Do you use a fan when on the turbo?

meanredspider

cjcp wrote:

Do you use a fan when on the turbo?

Normally yes if I'm working really hard - but I didn't today - just opened the French window a bit

cesco

First of all, hats off! Some friends of mine did it and the whole ride is admirable. I hope someday I'll manage to go there and climb it even once. (Also I must admit that riding among such a large group with the scale of this event doesn't particularly appeal to me haha).

What hasn't been mentioned in this thread however, is that there's been a scandal around the organisers last year. It's understandable, as it never reached the international press. Basically, the claim that all donations go directly towards cancer research is not true; or at least it can't be proven. The majority of the money was forwarded not to the Cancer Fund, but to the founder's own Inspire2Live organisation. The founders are also suspected of keeping a large sum for themselves ("managerial fees"). Obviously it's been a game of accusations and denial, but either way their book keeping is not made public; it's mostly unclear where a sum as much as 456.000 euros went.

I hate to be a downer though. You could reason that any money towards cancer is good money; but I just feel there should be more transparency. Also I just wanted to offer a different side of the story that apparently isn't too well known here. Well, maybe things are changed this year, and don't let it keep away from your goal! Again, truly admirable and best of luck!

cjcp

meanredspider wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Do you use a fan when on the turbo?

Normally yes if I'm working really hard - but I didn't today - just opened the French window a bit

Try it without the fan during the hard sessions. Will help simulate the effort in the heat. Also used to do them in direct sunlight.

meanredspider

cesco wrote:

First of all, hats off! Some friends of mine did it and the whole ride is admirable. I hope someday I'll manage to go there and climb it even once. (Also I must admit that riding among such a large group with the scale of this event doesn't particularly appeal to me haha).

What hasn't been mentioned in this thread however, is that there's been a scandal around the organisers last year. It's understandable, as it never reached the international press. Basically, the claim that all donations go directly towards cancer research is not true; or at least it can't be proven. The majority of the money was forwarded not to the Cancer Fund, but to the founder's own Inspire2Live organisation. The founders are also suspected of keeping a large sum for themselves ("managerial fees"). Obviously it's been a game of accusations and denial, but either way their book keeping is not made public; it's mostly unclear where a sum as much as 456.000 euros went.

I hate to be a downer though. You could reason that any money towards cancer is good money; but I just feel there should be more transparency. Also I just wanted to offer a different side of the story that apparently isn't too well known here. Well, maybe things are changed this year, and don't let it keep away from your goal! Again, truly admirable and best of luck!

Thanks - yes, I know there was some lack of clarity over the funding. I was taken through this in some detail by my Dutch team mates. It's not quite as dark as maybe your post paints it but it didn't quite live up to its claim that every cent goes toward cancer care and research. That said, it was pretty incredible that they even managed this for as long as they did: very few charities get even close to that and I know (because my cousin runs a fundraising agency) that a lot of fundraising comes nowhere close to this. The organisers have done a lot to clarify the situation in the last few months. My Dutch isn't good enough to read all the material but my Dutch colleagues are much happier than they were. I think it has been a victim of its very noble aim.

meanredspider

cjcp wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Do you use a fan when on the turbo?

Normally yes if I'm working really hard - but I didn't today - just opened the French window a bit

Try it without the fan during the hard sessions. Will help simulate the effort in the heat. Also used to do them in direct sunlight.

Yes, I plan to a bit closer to the event. I think I'm probably just going to make it unpleasant for myself if I start now and carry on for 4 months.