What is your best FTP gain in 12 weeks ?
Comments
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I think I just might be around 16kgs per watt (i.e. 0.0625 watts per kilo) in 2115... Takes a little bit of energy to push up the dasies!
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Latest FTP is 264 W (4.2 W/kg). Peak fitness was a few weeks ago before this test plus I still can't judge pacing - started out too easy and had to really ramp up the power in the last few minutes. Anyway better than nowt (20 W gain) but pretty sure I can get higher with better pacing.
I've been a bit lazy the last 2 months (after the Fred Whitton) but I've started to build up my training again now. I'm still aiming for 300 W longer term.0 -
Nice gain0
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ugo.santalucia wrote:Dodger747 wrote:In just over 7 weeks using a Trainerroad plan, I've increased my FTP by 25.5% or 51 watts.
Even if your numbers had been professionally measured and chemically enhanced by Dr Ferrari, I would still not believe them. 25% in 7 weeks? Yeah, right... :roll:
Your 5 Watt/Kg also sounds a bit dodgy... I remember Nibali as a young PRO had 5.2 Watt/Kg and most PRO don't get anywhere close to 6, with only the best climbers exceeding that figure.
Bit late replying to this, but believe what you will.
First test was done in late November 2013 when I got my Wahoo Kickr [so not virtual power], following their advanced build ii programme. All my workouts are on the BR trainerroad page, feel free to check them out. If you still want to roll your eyes, then go ahead...VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
W/kg - 4.90 -
What's not to believe? It might be real, it might not.
In 6 months I've seen FTP improvements from riders ranging from 5% to 100%. Much depends on your starting fitness and how well you respond to training. Typical change during a season where you don't stop riding much is around 10%.
But we already know that response to training is highly variable. In this quite substantial study of ~500 sedentary people (Heritage study) where they measured VO2max (cycling) twice before and twice after a 20 week training program, they found changes ranges from -5% to +56% (including gains of more than 1 l/min).
This from very modest training only 3 times per week, ranging from 30-min efforts @ 55% of VO2max HR to begin with (i.e. 90 min per week @ very modest intensity, what we would call "recovery level"), increasing gradually to 50-min efforts done 3 times per week @ 75% of VO2max level HR by week 14 (150 min/week at what we might call "endurance" level 2), and maintained thereafter until week 20.0 -
I am going to throw in a massive curve ball to this thread now.
When I first got my turbo and signed up to TR my FTP started out at 268, at this time road riding I was averaging 16 to 18mph for around 50 miles. A few months of weekend rides and 2 weekday TR sessions brought this up to 273 and was still riding at around the 18.5mph mark.
This year now and following the TR 8DC challenge I tested again and FTP had dropped to 251. I kept it at this new level even though I was disappointed in the lower figure. I have continued my training as per usual but now ride at 20.3mph for 53 miles (L2B 2014) and this past weekend completed a 62 mile ride at 21.1mph (relatively flat course). I did another 20 minute test this week and it has now dropped to 228 (it was 28C in the garage though!) but I am much faster out on the road.
I eat a pretty healthy diet and have cut sugar products to their minimum but do get plenty of protein which is spread during the day with diet whey shakes. My legs muscles are noticeably bigger (not measured mind you) than they were 2 years ago. I always have a rest day between exercising so there is no risk of over training. Current body weight is 165lbs.
So from my experience raising FTP has NOT increased my road speed, the complete opposite has occurred.
Any thoughts on why this may be???0 -
How are you measuring power?cerv50 wrote:Any thoughts on why this may be???0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
How are you measuring power?cerv50 wrote:Any thoughts on why this may be???
Only using TR's virtual readings. I have a set of Vectors now on the Summer bike but as yet have not tried them on the turbo to get comparisons.0 -
Then I wouldn't read too much into virtual power numbers, which are subject to considerable variation/error depending on several things.cerv50 wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
How are you measuring power?cerv50 wrote:Any thoughts on why this may be???
Only using TR's virtual readings. I have a set of Vectors now on the Summer bike but as yet have not tried them on the turbo to get comparisons.0 -
Dodger747 wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Dodger747 wrote:In just over 7 weeks using a Trainerroad plan, I've increased my FTP by 25.5% or 51 watts.
Even if your numbers had been professionally measured and chemically enhanced by Dr Ferrari, I would still not believe them. 25% in 7 weeks? Yeah, right... :roll:
Your 5 Watt/Kg also sounds a bit dodgy... I remember Nibali as a young PRO had 5.2 Watt/Kg and most PRO don't get anywhere close to 6, with only the best climbers exceeding that figure.
Bit late replying to this, but believe what you will.
First test was done in late November 2013 when I got my Wahoo Kickr [so not virtual power], following their advanced build ii programme. All my workouts are on the BR trainerroad page, feel free to check them out. If you still want to roll your eyes, then go ahead...
I've been reading through this forum and I think It's super important to point something out (if it hasnt been mentioned already)
Steady state ftp calculation is super valuable when training to TT and steady climbing but irrelevant in real world riding. In almost every race, group ride, or course, you will have to work with your "Over Under" engine. That said, the main difference between a Pro and a Rec rider is, a Pro will come very close or hit his steady state FTP numbers during the over under stress (attacks etc), while a less trained individual will hardly come close.
For example: my steady state FTP is 339/4.9 wpk. Now during a solid race with attacks and hills, i'll barely make 310.. The biggest takeway here is that unless you ONLY TT or climb without the chance of attacks, your steady state is almost worthless (above a certain wpk) unless your over/under engine is trained equally well too. It's your ability to recover and maintain during the hits that will make you truly strong..
I'll share painful story here.
A few years back, I thought I was pretty tough riding with some domestic pros on a training/sim ride with what I thought was a big ftp/ engine. When a specific rider noticed me in his breakaway "win" at the final stretch, so he attacked me over and over until my engine over heated. I was completely destroyed like never before, I almost completely stopped and now the main group passes me 50m to go. Turns out he was super nice and he spoke with me for a bit afterward, he said: "Nice effort but do you want to know the difference between a cat1 and a cat 2? You can beat the piss out of a cat1 and they'll recover and cover moves almost every time -- a cat 2 won't/can't handle those attacks and blow up quickly".0 -
Yes, best not to get carried away focusing on FTP and focus on the specifics of your target events. I've spent the last 4 months improving my over/under and being able to attack over the top of short climbs. I doubt my FTP has changed much in this time (to be honest I hardly test it) but I'm getting handy at blowing people away in those scenarios.0
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Some sizeable misunderstanding about FTP and its relevance in road racing in this lot.0
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Some sizeable misunderstanding about FTP and its relevance in road racing in this lot
Enlighten us then0 -
OK you enlighten me then. I guess I don't have to pay you to get an answer0
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I will say that ability to manage short attacks and such is clearly important and it is true that if you never train these then I think they go quite quickly - which may kind of correlate with your steady state thought. But the larger your FTP the more you have to play with in all situations, and generally the lower the stress on you vs someone with a lower FTP. Bigger the engine, the less its stressed in hard and easier efforts?Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0
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nammynake wrote:Latest FTP is 264 W (4.2 W/kg). Peak fitness was a few weeks ago before this test plus I still can't judge pacing - started out too easy and had to really ramp up the power in the last few minutes. Anyway better than nowt (20 W gain) but pretty sure I can get higher with better pacing.
I've been a bit lazy the last 2 months (after the Fred Whitton) but I've started to build up my training again now. I'm still aiming for 300 W longer term.
Did you eve rmake it to 300W? (I appreciate this is an old thread)
I have been hammering TR this year, and started off at around 140W in January, and this morning managed 229 Watts which I am pretty chuffed with.
Progression along the way has been 180, 197, 215, 229.
Also through sensible eating (Not dieting) I have reduced weight down from 74.4kg to 66.1kg - currently sat at 3.46 W/kg
So ignoring the first jump, which I think is simply because I was not cycle fit, my bext 12 week jump is only 35 Watts, so I would be mightily impressed if you managed your target in 12 weeks.
Having said that, on the build plan I have gone up by 32 watts in 8 weeks.
As my increases are likely to start diminishing (Expected I guess) 17, 18, 14, I imagine the next will be around 12-14 gain, so getting towards my target of 300 is going to take a fair while I reckon, perhaps 18 months to 2 years, IF I can get there.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
How about a year? Started at 80.5kg and down to 75.5kg. Started at power around 160w, no joke. I started riding from doing nothing but some occasional gym weights.
About a week ago I was doing intervals on a trainer with powermeter I use a lot and doing intervals averaged 230. That's not a new official test, but assume if I can go well over 230 and then rest under it and still average 230 then a true test would come out around there. So the cycle computer for the power meter claimed.
End of the day I'd like 250w and 70kg. Fits the lifestyle, food I like to eat/drink, and time commitment I can give. No desire to race. Just do some charity timed rides or some challenge events. Nothing with a bunch of choppers sprinting for a $100 gift certificate just to crash.
Doing one long weekly ride, a shorter enjoyment ride, and a TT or interval session of blood in the spit session on the trainer has given good results. I'm a believer in the 1 min and 5 minute interval training. It works.
For one year starting from nothing, I'll take where I am now.0 -
NapoleonD wrote:If you are concerned with increasing FTP then I suggest the following workout plan
3 times a week do 4x10 min intervals with 5 mins recovery between intervals.
Do the first session at 85% FTP then increase by, say, 2% each session.
Do a longer ride 1-2 days a week too.
Boring as hell. Will really target FTP but not much else. But VERY effective at increasing FTP.
just out of interest is there any advantage to doing 4x10min as opposed to 2x20min.0 -
john1967 wrote:NapoleonD wrote:Do the first session at 85% FTP then increase by, say, 2% each session.
Do a longer ride 1-2 days a week too.
Boring as hell. Will really target FTP but not much else. But VERY effective at increasing FTP.
just out of interest is there any advantage to doing 4x10min as opposed to 2x20min.
I've seen anything from 1x tabatas up to the 2x20 shown here.
I don't have time for anything that is x20 min on a trainer. My weekly road ride that is longer almost always has at least 4 efforts of around 10 min. Usually right at or beyond ftp for each.
I'm a fan of the 4 min or 5 min intervals if on a trainer, then just pick your poison while on the real bike. Usually I'll do a 1 min at about 2x FTP, 2 min at 1.5x, and 4 or 5 min at about 25% over ftp.
I'm not a guru, but in the quote above how is 85% of ftp supposed to increase FTP? Adding 2% each workout session or each interval?
I warmup by starting at about 110w and increase by 10w every 30 seconds until at about 180w. Then I do 4min at 270w to 300w and then determine how many times I can fit into a 40 to 45 min session including 5 min warmup and 5 min cooldown.
Works so far. If I can do the higher 4/5 min interval more than twice before lowering a tad, then it's time next time to add a few watts.0 -
This time last year I purchased a power meter and a got a coach. I am only a light 16 year old (60kg, 180cm tall). But in 12 months I have raised my FTP from 232 watts to 300.0
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john1967 wrote:
For some reason some amateurs who race bikes think that they are pretty special.
In reality they are just the equivalent of sunday league footballers and village green cricketers... nobody cares apart from the participants, and perhaps their families.0 -
joe2008 wrote:john1967 wrote:
For some reason some amateurs who race bikes think that they are pretty special.
In reality they are just the equivalent of sunday league footballers and village green cricketers... nobody cares apart from the participants, and perhaps their families.
Best post I've read in a long time. On the money.0 -
joe2008 wrote:
For some reason some amateurs who race bikes think that they are pretty special.
In reality they are just the equivalent of sunday league footballers and village green cricketers... nobody cares apart from the participants, and perhaps their families.
I don't think their families care... they pretend to, but surely they are above that...left the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:joe2008 wrote:
For some reason some amateurs who race bikes think that they are pretty special.
In reality they are just the equivalent of sunday league footballers and village green cricketers... nobody cares apart from the participants, and perhaps their families.
I don't think their families care... they pretend to, but surely they are above that...
yeah, that's why I added 'perhaps'0 -
cerv50 wrote:I am going to throw in a massive curve ball to this thread now.
When I first got my turbo and signed up to TR my FTP started out at 268, at this time road riding I was averaging 16 to 18mph for around 50 miles. A few months of weekend rides and 2 weekday TR sessions brought this up to 273 and was still riding at around the 18.5mph mark.
This year now and following the TR 8DC challenge I tested again and FTP had dropped to 251. I kept it at this new level even though I was disappointed in the lower figure. I have continued my training as per usual but now ride at 20.3mph for 53 miles (L2B 2014) and this past weekend completed a 62 mile ride at 21.1mph (relatively flat course). I did another 20 minute test this week and it has now dropped to 228 (it was 28C in the garage though!) but I am much faster out on the road.
I eat a pretty healthy diet and have cut sugar products to their minimum but do get plenty of protein which is spread during the day with diet whey shakes. My legs muscles are noticeably bigger (not measured mind you) than they were 2 years ago. I always have a rest day between exercising so there is no risk of over training. Current body weight is 165lbs.
So from my experience raising FTP has NOT increased my road speed, the complete opposite has occurred.
Any thoughts on why this may be???
Speed is absolutely irrelevant.
Power is absolute, the speed of your rides isn't relevant to improving or not improving.0 -
Pickup the Time Crunched Cyclist. That's essentially what those are. Limited amount of weeks to get maximal gains using high intensity work.
However, at 64kg I'm going to say a big fat NO. You won't get 54w in 12 weeks.
I did one of the plans and gained about 25w in 11 weeks. That was sticking 100% to the plan, no skipping workouts, and hitting every single interval at the upper end of the allowable power for that interval every single damn time.
More hours won't do it either. At that intensity factor per workout, you can't stand to add more hours at the upper range of IF. You won't recover for the next day.
I would say a similar gain as mine is possible. I train with power on the same equipment all the time and did the before and after tests per the plans in the book and the gain is well documented.
You might be able to eeeek out 30w instead of 25w. But definitely not 54w from 245w.
I'd say 54w would be possible if you were starting at 145w though.
The gains may jump up when you're below 200w and below 250w. But the curve on gains slows a bit above that.
Ask me how I know.............0 -
He might have found it by now. It was posted three and a half years ago.0
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I have a habit of not looking at the original post date.............this should stay dead. Ignore my posts........moving on.0
