What is your best FTP gain in 12 weeks ?

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Comments

  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,473
    As above. A VO2 max test might roughly predict what is theoretically achievable for efforts of around 5 mins duration, as this is the sort of time period that relies most on your maximal rate of oxygen consumption or top-end aerobic power. Longer than that and other metabolic systems become significant (to do with lactate processing and fatigue) and these have no necessary relationship to VO2 max. Your FTP is determined by your VO2 max plus those other things, and a VO2 max test doesn't test the other things.
  • johnnybike
    johnnybike Posts: 75
    So nammynake we are now about 12 weeks from your original post. It woudl be interesting to hear what you have achieved and how it was done. Any lessons for newbies to FTP improvement
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    Dodger747 wrote:
    In just over 7 weeks using a Trainerroad plan, I've increased my FTP by 25.5% or 51 watts.

    Even if your numbers had been professionally measured and chemically enhanced by Dr Ferrari, I would still not believe them. 25% in 7 weeks? Yeah, right... :roll:

    Your 5 Watt/Kg also sounds a bit dodgy... I remember Nibali as a young PRO had 5.2 Watt/Kg and most PRO don't get anywhere close to 6, with only the best climbers exceeding that figure.
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  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Unless his first test was a crap effort...
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Unless his first test was a crap effort...

    ... but seriously crap...
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  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Dodger747 wrote:
    In just over 7 weeks using a Trainerroad plan, I've increased my FTP by 25.5% or 51 watts.

    Even if your numbers had been professionally measured and chemically enhanced by Dr Ferrari, I would still not believe them. 25% in 7 weeks? Yeah, right... :roll:

    Your 5 Watt/Kg also sounds a bit dodgy... I remember Nibali as a young PRO had 5.2 Watt/Kg and most PRO don't get anywhere close to 6, with only the best climbers exceeding that figure.

    5W/kg FTP is ballpark for a good 2nd Cat or average 1st Cat in the UK so you're a bit off in thinking that the likes of Nibali only has a FTP of around that.
    More problems but still living....
  • Stalin
    Stalin Posts: 208
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Unless his first test was a crap effort...

    This is the problem if you use power alone and rely on FTP tests.

    You never really know if someone is just trying much harder to prove they have improved. People claim their FTP has increased but often they have just pushed themselves harder to justify the training they have done and the money they have spent.

    You never really know what your true FTP is until you do a race which really motivates you. Only liars can go as hard in training as in a race. Or people who crumble when they are faced with a real race situation where they can't hide behind their power data.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    It's only a problem if you blindly believe a number from a single test instead of using it to confirm what your other rides are telling you.

    Stop assuming people that train with power are stupid.
    More problems but still living....
  • Stalin
    Stalin Posts: 208
    amaferanga wrote:
    It's only a problem if you blindly believe a number from a single test instead of using it to confirm what your other rides are telling you.

    Stop assuming people that train with power are stupid.


    I don't assume people who train with power alone are stupid. I'm merely pointing out we only have their subjective opinion as to how hard they were trying.

    At least if you have heart rate data alongside the power data you have some hard evidence as to how hard they were trying.

    No rational person would deliberately ignore heart rate data.

    As for blindly believing a number, sorry but FTP is a number, a number on which you base all your training and TSS and CTL. It is important to get it right and constantly doing FTP tests is stupid training.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    amaferanga wrote:
    5W/kg FTP is ballpark for a good 2nd Cat or average 1st Cat in the UK so you're a bit off in thinking that the likes of Nibali only has a FTP of around that.

    If you read carefully I said "as a young PRO, Nibali HAD 5.2 Watt/Kg" it is the number that was quoted at the time in 2005... I have my reasons to belive a 25% improvement in 7 weeks can only be an experimental error.
    I would appreciate if you refrained from commenting on my comments in the future... I don't like your tone, I never did
    left the forum March 2023
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I went from 232-270 in 8 weeks recently.
    The first was from a lab test that confirmed what I was using before.
    2nd 8wks later from a 20 minute protocol.
    I'll be doing another lab test in a month or so.
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I went from 232-270 in 8 weeks recently.

    Were you not ill at the time? I seem to recall you mentioning something about having been ill
    left the forum March 2023
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I was ill last year. I wasn't when I did the lab test.
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  • Stalin
    Stalin Posts: 208
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    amaferanga wrote:
    5W/kg FTP is ballpark for a good 2nd Cat or average 1st Cat in the UK so you're a bit off in thinking that the likes of Nibali only has a FTP of around that.

    If you read carefully I said "as a young PRO, Nibali HAD 5.2 Watt/Kg" it is the number that was quoted at the time in 2005... I have my reasons to belive a 25% improvement in 7 weeks can only be an experimental error.
    I would appreciate if you refrained from commenting on my comments in the future... I don't like your tone, I never did


    Hold on here. I don't like amaferanga's tone and he sure as hell doesn't like mine, but he is as entitled to express his opinions as the next man. I may not agree with him about a lot of things and I might not like his tone when he does not agree with me but a forum is a place where people exchange views and openly test opinion and argument.

    A forum where the moderators tell people who's posts they can comment on, is not a real forum. A forum where a selected few favourites can say what ever they like but anyone who does not agree with them is censored or threatened with a ban is not a proper forum.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I was ill last year. I wasn't when I did the lab test.

    What was 230 Watt in Watt/Kg? Or in other words, were you badly out of shape at the time?
    My point is that the guy was already well over 4 Watt/Kg to start with. It seems a bit difficult to improve that much in such a short time
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    Stalin wrote:

    Hold on here. I don't like amaferanga's tone and he sure as hell doesn't like mine, but he is as entitled to express his opinions as the next man. I may not agree with him about a lot of things and I might not like his tone when he does not agree with me but a forum is a place where people exchange views and openly test opinion and argument.

    A forum where the moderators tell people who's posts they can comment on, is not a real forum. A forum where a selected few favourites can say what ever they like but anyone who does not agree with them is censored or threatened with a ban is not a proper forum.

    He can say what he wants. I would prefer if he didn't quote my comments when he does, or call me "wheel salesman" or rubbish pretty much anything I say every single time.
    left the forum March 2023
  • shazzz
    shazzz Posts: 1,077
    Achievable %age improvement depends on so many things - not least of which being how well trained you are to start off with. My FTP (based on 20 minute all out efforts) has increased by 10% from the start of January to now.
    I'm with Ugo that a 25% improvement in 12 weeks seems very unlikely, unless you are starting from a very low, untrained base.
    FWIW, my ave HR over the 20 mins of each test I have done this year (4 so far) has been within 3 bpm of each other. Having said that, I certainly agree that there is scope to underestimate FTP until you get used to doing an all out effort and really understand the extent to which you can lay it all on the line.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    shazzz wrote:
    Achievable %age improvement depends on so many things - not least of which being how well trained you are to start off with. My FTP (based on 20 minute all out efforts) has increased by 10% from the start of January to now.
    I'm with Ugo that a 25% improvement in 12 weeks seems very unlikely, unless you are starting from a very low, untrained base.
    FWIW, my ave HR over the 20 mins of each test I have done this year (4 so far) has been within 3 bpm of each other. Having said that, I certainly agree that there is scope to underestimate FTP until you get used to doing an all out effort and really understand the extent to which you can lay it all on the line.

    Indeed.
    On the back of an envelope 25% means going from 4 to 5 Watt/Kg (assuming same weight), which means going from climbing the Alpe d'Huez in roughly 60 minutes, to climbing it in 48 minutes. IME there is an abyss between the two performances, that cannot be bridged in 7 weeks
    left the forum March 2023
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I've gone from 2.46w/kg to 3.14w/kg.
    That said I was ok track wise at the time, holding my own in shorter races. Outdoor track league starts next month...
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,340
    I get 1.1w/kg of Pork Scratchings and a pint of Guiness...the problem is wind though.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Ironically, my FTP is now based on pie.
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,340
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Ironically, my FTP is now based on pie.

    Have you got a chart?
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  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    It was a geek-joke :(
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  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    NapoleonD wrote:
    It was a geek-joke :(

    Maybe Piña was joking too :wink:

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    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I'm sad. My joke wasn't funny.

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  • shazzz
    shazzz Posts: 1,077
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I'm sad. My joke wasn't funny.

    Too geeky?

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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,340
    NapoleonD wrote:
    It was a geek-joke :(

    D'oh.

    Is there a diminishing correlation between watts, kilo's and brain function? At least, judging by your output you don't quite fit in that bracket NapD :wink:

    Wilfried Nellisen springs to mind
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  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    pinarello001 wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    It was a geek-joke :(

    D'oh.

    Is there a diminishing correlation between watts, kilo's and brain function? At least, judging by your output you don't quite fit in that bracket NapD :wink:

    Wilfried Nellisen springs to mind

    More Ponce than Once
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    pinarello001 wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    It was a geek-joke :(

    D'oh.

    Is there a diminishing correlation between watts, kilo's and brain function? At least, judging by your output you don't quite fit in that bracket NapD :wink:

    Wilfried Nellisen springs to mind

    I see what you did there :o
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  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,340
    All of the stats posted here are utter shyte. I have a 16kg's per watt ratio*, so there :P

    *...and that's not even standing on the pedals.

    Why don't you all set a deadline, say 01/07/2115? Then do a lab test. From the results you can calculate who's going to be the quickest in a given TT, a road race or a hill climb. Then after that, you can sit back and be happy with your 173rd placing or whatever the stats say you should end up. No point racing or timetrialling - if it's what the lab results say how your going to perform, end of story, buy slippers and a Zimmer.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!

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