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Yorkshire TDF - viewing plan

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  • ianwilliamsianwilliams Posts: 257
    Quick point:

    If you are planning on getting train tickets at Leeds station, be prepared.

    You can get tickets to local stations from the blue/purple Northern Rail ticket machines. You can also buy them from the National Rail ticket machines too - most people seem to not know this and just queue up for the Northern Rail ones. Its the same price in both.

    However, there are loads of problems with the National Rail ticket machines at the moment. The last few times I've either bought tickets or collected pre-bought tickets I've had to try a few different machines. The problems are with the card readers (and they don't take cash).

    So if you can avoid this somehow, or at least get tickets before Sat/Sun, you'll avoid a lot of hassle.
  • ducknumber1ducknumber1 Posts: 733
    Quick point:

    If you are planning on getting train tickets at Leeds station, be prepared.

    You can get tickets to local stations from the blue/purple Northern Rail ticket machines. You can also buy them from the National Rail ticket machines too - most people seem to not know this and just queue up for the Northern Rail ones. Its the same price in both.

    However, there are loads of problems with the National Rail ticket machines at the moment. The last few times I've either bought tickets or collected pre-bought tickets I've had to try a few different machines. The problems are with the card readers (and they don't take cash).

    So if you can avoid this somehow, or at least get tickets before Sat/Sun, you'll avoid a lot of hassle.

    Got mine in May :shock:
  • verylonglegsverylonglegs Posts: 3,423
    Reading this thread and the other one about cycling the closed roads in the Cambridge area makes my mind boggle. I've seen the Tour a fair few times in its home country and it's never been more complex than drive to your destination at a reasonable time in the morning and then walk/bike to your viewing spot with a few hours to go. I can't believe how much more difficult it's made to sound on here, is it internet hysteria or is it a UK thing where councils and officialdom gets involved? Especially the Cambridgeshire council where they say the route is closed to everything, including cyclists, from 7am or earlier despite the race not leaving until midday? Thats just nuts imo. https://www.cambridge.gov.uk/le-tour-cambridge-route
  • thefogthefog Posts: 197
    bigmat wrote:
    thefog wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Where's the best place to park for Oughtibridge? I'll either be driving down from camping at Buttertubs or, possibly, up from South Wales as I might not go for the Saturday now. I'm happy to walk a few miles (I'd rather walk than have the bike with me for the day).

    Can I give some clear advice here

    If you are going to Buttertubs on Saturday, it will be a LONG time before the roads are reopened for you to travel south again. Don't want to put anyone off, but the reality is that once the race has gone through, there's lots to do before roads reopen. Then imagine a mass migration from lots of other areas by people to get to stage 2 viewing positions.

    If I watch the race go past at Buttertubs, how long will I have to wait before I can continue following the route? Planning to ride on to Leyburn, watch the finish on big screen then on to Harrogate.

    Remember, 30k other people will also be looking to walk back down Buttertubs as well at the same time - you're unlikely to get a 40mph descent straight after - it will take some time. Then a circa 16 mile ride from Hawes to Leyburn, so I reckon 1.5 hours? - Already big crowds in Leyburn that have been there all day for you to try and get a view of the race again.

    Will you actually make it/ get to see the race that second time? Not questioning your average speed/fitness but Id suggest you've got no chance.
  • thefogthefog Posts: 197
    rabk wrote:
    Anyone any idea what is happening to the roads around Hawes?

    I have booked camping in Sedbergh - hoping to drive towards Hawes and then cycle. I assume the road will be closed - but not sure if I can park on roadside and cycle from there.


    There is VERY limited parking in the car parks around Hawes - no 'on road' parking - as mentioned, narrow roads, dry stone walls.

    We expect those car parks to fill early [roads close between 6am and 7am officially], I expect them to close earlier when filled. Once that happens, some roads will be closed and turned into car parks on one side only. Cars will then have to be moved again before 5pm [or be towed] so that roads can reopen.

    You wont be able to park on these roads before that operation starts, as it would block the roads.

    Road from Sedbergh to Hawes is pretty censored - get there early !!
  • thefogthefog Posts: 197
    The caravan - on the info I have there are 186 vehicles confirmed for the caravan. (Which seems a lot, obviously haven't counted vehicles in Paris before but 186? Total number of accredited vehicles?)

    Some other interesting factlets - Police are anticipating 15000 spectators on the short section from where the Holme Moss road takes a nasty left hand onto Woodhead to the bridge over the reservoir (in other words the turn itself). They then estimate 40000 between the bridge and the Flouch Inn, which is about a mile or so.

    As for the Glossop commuters - there are 30 shuttle buses going upto Crowden Youth Hostel and Snake Summit. Along the walking route to the race routes there are 'welfare stops' with water available.

    I believe it is possible to ride/walk along the route until ASO close the route, which is iirc between an hour and half an hour before the caravan arrives.


    Officially 185 vehicles in caravan - some wont travel to uk as no commercial interest. Some local companies have however taken their place - Yorkshire Tea, Yorkshire Building Society and a few more.

    FWIW, Police are not engaged in any other role in the event other than security and public order and liaison with French police - generally the case nowadays, eventually they'll have no input to cycle racing, like all other events. It isn't their estimates of crowds, local authorities/ uk sport commissioned crowd modelling which will be the figures you mention.

    Definite times for walking/ cycling on route is 30mins before the publicity caravan. In reality, stewards wont be able to stop people 'crossing' the road after those times either where barriers aren't in place [obv people wont/ or shouldnt' when the race is passing.
  • thefogthefog Posts: 197
    Sitter wrote:
    rabk wrote:
    Sitter wrote:
    rabk wrote:
    Anyone any idea what is happening to the roads around Hawes?

    I have booked camping in Sedbergh - hoping to drive towards Hawes and then cycle. I assume the road will be closed - but not sure if I can park on roadside and cycle from there.

    A lot of them are closed from 6am, wouldn't count on being able to park roadside either as it is just like a lot of the roads here in the Dales, dry stone walls with little to no verge to park on.

    I'm planning on Hawes, getting a lift to Ribblehead and cycling from there, easier than trying to park, it gets busy enough on a weekend with people walking the peaks, never mind the TDF too.

    I suppose I could cycle from Sedbergh, not sure my 8 year old son will be able to cope though :shock:

    Maybe look at trying to park at Garsdale train station (5 miles from Hawes) and riding from there, might not be too busy. That was one of my plans (although not parking there, getting the train there), still trying to decide where I'm going to watch/plans to get there, I only live 20 miles from the route but seems to be harder to decide than if I was travelling from much further afield!

    Im pretty sure 1k-5k other people are thinking the same thing, so chances are that parking will be occupied very early. Seriously, you want to see the Tour in the uk, get there early!

    Estimated 1m people on route each day - each town15 miles apart is effectively going to be a 'Wembley stadium' for the day, with the added travel restrictions and congestion.
  • thefogthefog Posts: 197
    dwanes wrote:
    Just cycled up Buttertubs today, there are now official signs most of the way up there saying 'No Spectators'

    Most of the climbs have same or similar - generally the narrower sections so that barriers don't have to be installed. Sadly, we live in a claim culture era. Did you see that chap step back on a climb at last years Tour in france? If that happened here, the person concerned would probably submit a claim saying the council didn't put any barriers in. The signs remove an element of liability. People will stand there [despite pleas from stewards] but the signs effectively say "you were told not too, no claim if you fall over".
  • alanp23alanp23 Posts: 696
    Thanks for all your advice, TheFog.

    Very helpful and very clear.
    Top Ten finisher - PTP Tour of Britain 2016
  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    I didn't see any No Spectators signs climbing Buttertubs a couple of weeks ago but I did see farmers signs for "Spectator viewing area", with charges (I think £15 per family) IIRC it was about here : http://goo.gl/maps/nIvKA
  • Coach HCoach H Posts: 1,287
    thefog wrote:
    The signs remove an element of liability. People will stand there [despite pleas from stewards] but the signs effectively say "you were told not too, no claim if you fall over".

    The signs do absolutely nothing with regards liability, they just put people off from claiming because they think they do.
    Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,335
    Reading this thread and the other one about cycling the closed roads in the Cambridge area makes my mind boggle. I've seen the Tour a fair few times in its home country and it's never been more complex than drive to your destination at a reasonable time in the morning and then walk/bike to your viewing spot with a few hours to go. I can't believe how much more difficult it's made to sound on here, is it internet hysteria or is it a UK thing where councils and officialdom gets involved? Especially the Cambridgeshire council where they say the route is closed to everything, including cyclists, from 7am or earlier despite the race not leaving until midday? Thats just nuts imo. https://www.cambridge.gov.uk/le-tour-cambridge-route

    Combination of novelty value causing the sort of numbers you only see on mountain stages in France and the fact that a road closure requires an Order and that Order will be for the closure of the road to all vehicles. They may be able to have an Order that allows use by cyclists up until a separate time but it would need a different application and you end up with more costs / hassle / chances for objections. I suspect that in reality cyclists will be allowed on the roads but the Council cannot be seen to be allowing it / encouraging it as it would contravene the terms of the Order they obtained.
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,335
    Coach H wrote:
    thefog wrote:
    The signs remove an element of liability. People will stand there [despite pleas from stewards] but the signs effectively say "you were told not too, no claim if you fall over".

    The signs do absolutely nothing with regards liability, they just put people off from claiming because they think they do.

    It's more that even without the signs there is unlikely to be liability (unless someone has actively encouraged people to stand in an unsafe location). I've recently been involved with a job where there was a retaining wall about 5m high and which had a wide, flat top to it. Kids were riding bikes and skateboards along it so the answer was to put signs up telling them not to do it. Now, if the fall to likely death is not deterring them I'm not sure what a sign will do!!
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,108
    thefog wrote:
    bigmat wrote:
    thefog wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Where's the best place to park for Oughtibridge? I'll either be driving down from camping at Buttertubs or, possibly, up from South Wales as I might not go for the Saturday now. I'm happy to walk a few miles (I'd rather walk than have the bike with me for the day).

    Can I give some clear advice here

    If you are going to Buttertubs on Saturday, it will be a LONG time before the roads are reopened for you to travel south again. Don't want to put anyone off, but the reality is that once the race has gone through, there's lots to do before roads reopen. Then imagine a mass migration from lots of other areas by people to get to stage 2 viewing positions.

    If I watch the race go past at Buttertubs, how long will I have to wait before I can continue following the route? Planning to ride on to Leyburn, watch the finish on big screen then on to Harrogate.

    Remember, 30k other people will also be looking to walk back down Buttertubs as well at the same time - you're unlikely to get a 40mph descent straight after - it will take some time. Then a circa 16 mile ride from Hawes to Leyburn, so I reckon 1.5 hours? - Already big crowds in Leyburn that have been there all day for you to try and get a view of the race again.

    Will you actually make it/ get to see the race that second time? Not questioning your average speed/fitness but Id suggest you've got no chance.


    I was intending to follow the route and then watch the finish on the big screen at Leyburn, rather then heading back and catching them a second time. Agree, that would be ridiculously optimistic!
  • dwanesdwanes Posts: 954
    I didn't see any No Spectators signs climbing Buttertubs a couple of weeks ago but I did see farmers signs for "Spectator viewing area", with charges (I think £15 per family) IIRC it was about here : http://goo.gl/maps/nIvKA
    Yes I saw some of these 'spectator fields' up there, I guess they must have known the organizers were going to put restrictions on.
    Organizers were out in force yesterday putting these signs up, as were the NFU putting signs up about not sitting or standing on dry stone wall.
  • ianwilliamsianwilliams Posts: 257
    Woop woop! Just had the slightly surreal sight of Vincenzo Nibali & Astana banging it out of Armley gyratory.

    Just great to see it all happening here.
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    What exactly is the deal with Buttertubs? I'm not a local so please forgive me, is it on a street like a Hovis advert with no pavement or does it have a ravine down one side? Unless there's someone with a gun telling me not to I'm inclined to tip them bo££cks and go up there anyway
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,335
    Paul 8v wrote:
    What exactly is the deal with Buttertubs? I'm not a local so please forgive me, is it on a street like a Hovis advert with no pavement or does it have a ravine down one side? Unless there's someone with a gun telling me not to I'm inclined to tip them bo££cks and go up there anyway

    Just a typical moorland country road from what I've seen. Possibly very little verge to stand on but this is the Tour, there'll be plenty of stages in France where people are standing on the road itself.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,637
    What do you reckon...

    Show the old man the Yorkshire Dales on the bikes and find somewhere to watch the race or try and make it back to Harrogate for the apres finish...

    Bear in mind that perhaps that means coming all the way up and not seeing the nicest bit, which may mean not seeing Stage 2

    (I ll be back down south to see it again in london)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Buttertubs is by far the highest and steepest climb on Stage 1. Parts of it especially the steep climb parts are dry stone wall on both sides. I fully expect to have the usual wall of spectators along that way when the riders come up.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,744
    ddraver wrote:
    What do you reckon...

    Show the old man the Yorkshire Dales on the bikes and find somewhere to watch the race or try and make it back to Harrogate for the apres finish...

    Bear in mind that perhaps that means coming all the way up and not seeing the nicest bit, which may mean not seeing Stage 2

    (I ll be back down south to see it again in london)

    I've given up on any thought of getting to Buttertubs - too far to cycle with the other half and impossible to drive to. Going to start off from Ilkley and see how far up I can get on the bike. Depend on where you're staying, you could do that, there's a nice bump around Addington. Then cycle back to Harrogate. That way you can get down to see Stage 2 - the latter half of which should be very tasty!
  • CorianderCoriander Posts: 1,326
    dish_dash wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    What do you reckon...

    Show the old man the Yorkshire Dales on the bikes and find somewhere to watch the race or try and make it back to Harrogate for the apres finish...

    Bear in mind that perhaps that means coming all the way up and not seeing the nicest bit, which may mean not seeing Stage 2

    (I ll be back down south to see it again in london)

    I've given up on any thought of getting to Buttertubs - too far to cycle with the other half and impossible to drive to. Going to start off from Ilkley and see how far up I can get on the bike. Depend on where you're staying, you could do that, there's a nice bump around Addington. Then cycle back to Harrogate. That way you can get down to see Stage 2 - the latter half of which should be very tasty!

    Do you live in Ilkley? I did and my parents were there for many years. Do you know which route they're taking in through town - presumably just straight through along the Leeds road?
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Oh pants, I was getting confused anyway, I meant Blubberhouses (Gotta love these names) :-)
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 4,744
    Coriander wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    What do you reckon...

    Show the old man the Yorkshire Dales on the bikes and find somewhere to watch the race or try and make it back to Harrogate for the apres finish...

    Bear in mind that perhaps that means coming all the way up and not seeing the nicest bit, which may mean not seeing Stage 2

    (I ll be back down south to see it again in london)

    I've given up on any thought of getting to Buttertubs - too far to cycle with the other half and impossible to drive to. Going to start off from Ilkley and see how far up I can get on the bike. Depend on where you're staying, you could do that, there's a nice bump around Addington. Then cycle back to Harrogate. That way you can get down to see Stage 2 - the latter half of which should be very tasty!

    Do you live in Ilkley? I did and my parents were there for many years. Do you know which route they're taking in through town - presumably just straight through along the Leeds road?

    Nah, driving up there tmr. My cousin lives in Ilkley and crashing at his. Lovely town which was already very decked out when I was up last weekend... route is straight through town...
  • Had a drive up to Kilnsey and cote de Cray last night, a real buzz around the hamlets of Kettlewell, Buckden
    Top of cote de cray paint on the roads, camper vans by the roadside on the climb up to the top its really happening. :D
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    I'm venturing North of Watford gap tomorrow, can't wait! I have Kraftwerk stuck in my head :-)
  • yourpaceormineyourpaceormine Posts: 1,231
    FJS apologies for delay in replying to your question. Been caving all day.

    The numbers came from a briefing document issued to the emergency services
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 2,021
    Had a drive up to Kilnsey and cote de Cray last night, a real buzz around the hamlets of Kettlewell, Buckden
    Top of cote de cray paint on the roads, camper vans by the roadside on the climb up to the top its really happening. :D

    There's a palpable buzz in York too - yellow bikes everywhere, noticeably more road bikes in the racks at work, a sign on someone's house saying 'Bienvenue a la rue Bishy'... I've been bouncing about since the barriers started appearing along my commute.
    @canocola

    aka the poster formerly known as underlayunderlay
  • Philly8mtPhilly8mt Posts: 552
    Been to Sheffield today "working" .... Took the chance to have a nosey at Jenkin Road and the route to the finish line. Honestly you could drive around there oblivious to the fact owts happening! One small bit of bunting on the soon to be famous white railing on Jenkin Road and a yellow cardboard bike stuck on one lamp post!
    The only signs are ones warning of "Towing away" & "road closures" ... Nothing on the roads entering the city, no welcome, no banners, no bunting! censored all!

    Sheffield really seem to have let themselves down when compared with the rest of Yorkshire :(
    Still thinking of something clever to say!
  • SitterSitter Posts: 40
    Philly8mt wrote:
    Been to Sheffield today "working" .... Took the chance to have a nosey at Jenkin Road and the route to the finish line. Honestly you could drive around there oblivious to the fact owts happening! One small bit of bunting on the soon to be famous white railing on Jenkin Road and a yellow cardboard bike stuck on one lamp post!
    The only signs are ones warning of "Towing away" & "road closures" ... Nothing on the roads entering the city, no welcome, no banners, no bunting! fool all!

    Sheffield really seem to have let themselves down when compared with the rest of Yorkshire :(

    Seems to be a common comment from people that have been Sheffield way, maybe they'll get their acts together once they see what the rest of Yorkshire have been doing.

    Been getting noticeably busier around here (Ingleton) with campervans and cyclists as although we are not on the route, we are within easy striking distance.
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