Doping: Winners (and Losers)
Crankbrother
Posts: 1,695
There are loads of threads and posts on here about doping and everything there and abouts ... One I haven't seen is a discussion about those who have gained and lost from the doping wars of the last decade or so ...
When I say 'gain', I don't mean in terms the racing itself, rather how have certain individuals (and even teams) benefited from doping in pro cycling ...
For example (imo) Slipstream/Vaughters used an anti-doping agenda to fast-track into the big league ...
When I say 'gain', I don't mean in terms the racing itself, rather how have certain individuals (and even teams) benefited from doping in pro cycling ...
For example (imo) Slipstream/Vaughters used an anti-doping agenda to fast-track into the big league ...
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Crankbrother wrote:There are loads of threads and posts on here about doping and everything there and abouts ... One I haven't seen is a discussion about those who have gained and lost from the doping wars of the last decade or so ...
When I say 'gain', I don't mean in terms the racing itself, rather how have certain individuals (and even teams) benefited from doping in pro cycling ...
For example (imo) Slipstream/Vaughters used an anti-doping agenda to fast-track into the big league ...
Didnt Sky have a similar mantra, however being fully transparent and hiring riders & staff without a dodgy background......0 -
MartinGT wrote:Crankbrother wrote:There are loads of threads and posts on here about doping and everything there and abouts ... One I haven't seen is a discussion about those who have gained and lost from the doping wars of the last decade or so ...
When I say 'gain', I don't mean in terms the racing itself, rather how have certain individuals (and even teams) benefited from doping in pro cycling ...
For example (imo) Slipstream/Vaughters used an anti-doping agenda to fast-track into the big league ...
Didnt Sky have a similar mantra, however being fully transparent and hiring riders & staff without a dodgy background......
Here we go.....And they're off!Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Yay! Another doping thread!It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0
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Too many losers if you ask me and not many winners.
The losers that hurts more are the lads & lasses lower down the food chain. Take JTL for example. Loads of Pro-Conti lads got shafted by him in 2011 & 2012.
Watching him climb Gun Hill at the ToB 2011 when he was at Rapha he did it with hardly breathing, at the time I was thinking "Thats wicked, go on lad, do it for the home grown teams" Thats now in doubt wheather he was clean or not.0 -
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Crankbrother wrote:There are loads of threads and posts on here about doping and everything there and abouts ... One I haven't seen is a discussion about those who have gained and lost from the doping wars of the last decade or so ...
When I say 'gain', I don't mean in terms the racing itself, rather how have certain individuals (and even teams) benefited from doping in pro cycling ...
For example (imo) Slipstream/Vaughters used an anti-doping agenda to fast-track into the big league ...
Winners = You and all your other boring mates such as WBT, Rayjay, and The Truth.
Losers = Everybody else on this forum getting bored to death with your constant bleating Sky this, Sky that. Doping this, doping that. FFS.0 -
spaceman147 wrote:Crankbrother wrote:There are loads of threads and posts on here about doping and everything there and abouts ... One I haven't seen is a discussion about those who have gained and lost from the doping wars of the last decade or so ...
When I say 'gain', I don't mean in terms the racing itself, rather how have certain individuals (and even teams) benefited from doping in pro cycling ...
For example (imo) Slipstream/Vaughters used an anti-doping agenda to fast-track into the big league ...
Winners = You and all your other boring mates such as WBT, Rayjay, and The Truth.
Losers = Everybody else on this forum getting bored to death with your constant bleating Sky this, Sky that. Doping this, doping that. FFS.
Dude, is the Winners you name above forcing you to open dope threads and read them? No.0 -
I'd say Millar is a pretty big winner. I didn't follow cycling before his ban - but from what I've read in the press and in his book he was accepted back into the fold quite quickly via JV/Garmin Slipstream and now owns part of a WT team, is(/was?) an athletes’ representative on the World Anti-Doping Agency and is having a film made about his final year as a pro rider.0
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Hincapie is the biggest winner in my mind. He appears to be absolute Teflon. Had all of the "glory years" with Disco-Post, much loved by his other teams following that. Has made a mint in endorsement, got to clear his conscience with a confession when he'd finished and despite pointing the finger Lance still loves him.0
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Yellow Peril wrote:Hincapie is the biggest winner in my mind. He appears to be absolute Teflon. Had all of the "glory years" with Disco-Post, much loved by his other teams following that. Has made a mint in endorsement, got to clear his conscience with a confession when he'd finished and despite pointing the finger Lance still loves him.
Aye, didnt he (or his company) patent the machine that prints the jerseys for the podiums too?0 -
MartinGT wrote:ddraver wrote:huh ok - I actually took it seriosuly for a minute...sorry about that
Ah, so its ok for you to call out Voight, but not others about your precious Sky?
Ah, I see, apologies
The fact that there is more genuine suspicion about one rider than an entire team says all you need to know.
Hincapie's a great shout!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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ddraver wrote:MartinGT wrote:ddraver wrote:huh ok - I actually took it seriosuly for a minute...sorry about that
Ah, so its ok for you to call out Voight, but not others about your precious Sky?
Ah, I see, apologies
The fact that there is more genuine suspicion about one rider than an entire team says all you need to know.
Hincapie's a great shout!
So Froome going from pony to GT contendor in a matter of months AFTER a suspicious doctor joins a team isnt sus at all.
Ok, I get ya.0 -
MartinGT wrote:ddraver wrote:MartinGT wrote:ddraver wrote:huh ok - I actually took it seriosuly for a minute...sorry about that
Ah, so its ok for you to call out Voight, but not others about your precious Sky?
Ah, I see, apologies
The fact that there is more genuine suspicion about one rider than an entire team says all you need to know.
Hincapie's a great shout!
So Froome going from pony to GT contendor in a matter of months AFTER a suspicious doctor joins a team isnt sus at all.
Ok, I get ya.
Here's the thing. I absolutely get that the rise of Froome and to lesser extent Wiggins throws up questions. I get that the Bilharzia story is not convincing for everyone. Suspicion is fine. The trouble is, as has been said endlessly on various threads, is that the suspicion is being supported by evidence that struggles even to merit the title circumstantial. The linking of the hiring of Leinders and Froome's transition to a GT contender does not make any kind of case at all and seems to be the best 'evidence' that Froome and others are doping (beyond the 'well Froome's a bit too good to be clean' mantra). Of course, that doesnt mean Froome or Sky or any number of other riders or teams ARE clean - the 'evidence' might emerge over the coming months or years that they're as dirty as Armstrong and UPS. BUT right now that evidence isn't there hence some people reasonably adopting a let's wait and see approach rather than adopting this frankly tiresome 'they're all feckin dopers' stance (which approach fundamentally begs the question why are you here if not simply to cause friction and wind people up).0 -
ddraver wrote:Sorry are you saying Froome is a winner or Loser? I'm not sure how your post relates to the Fffffffff**cking question!
Haha here you go again.
As soon as someone starts putting a reasoned argument up against your precious Sky your toys come out.
Too easy to read ddraver
I bet you have all the Sky Kits at home havent you Bless.
Jog on.0 -
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spaceman147 wrote:Crankbrother wrote:There are loads of threads and posts on here about doping and everything there and abouts ... One I haven't seen is a discussion about those who have gained and lost from the doping wars of the last decade or so ...
When I say 'gain', I don't mean in terms the racing itself, rather how have certain individuals (and even teams) benefited from doping in pro cycling ...
For example (imo) Slipstream/Vaughters used an anti-doping agenda to fast-track into the big league ...
Winners = You and all your other boring mates such as WBT, Rayjay, and The Truth.
Losers = Everybody else on this forum getting bored to death with your constant bleating Sky this, Sky that. Doping this, doping that. FFS.
Excuse me?
I started this thread to discuss things well away from anything SKY related ... I've only been discussing SKY's methods in the thread designated for such (and not mentioned doping once) ...
Other posters have joined in with the discussion, for example mentioning Zabel who 'fessed up in an attempt to look apologetic for what he had done but hopefully continue on as normal ... It worked (and he still has his record TdF victories on record) ...
It's not about accusation, it's just a discussion about how some folks have gained, rather than been hindered, by the prevalent doping culture around them ...
If you don't like it I suggest you just keep your nose out rather than be snidey and bring immediate conflict to the thread ... and that goes for everyone, especially our newer (or revisiting) 'special' friends ...0 -
OK, in the spirit of the thread are we asking about known dopers i.e. those who have failed tests, been suspended or confessed, as opposed to those who have suspicions of various degrees attached to them?0
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We're talking about those who have gained from others doping ... As another example other than Slipstream ... Greg Lemond has more relevance now than he did before (look how he shoehorned himself into the Landis debacle) ...
And those that doped and came out unscathed, even thriving afterwards (Hincapie & Zabel are 2 good examples already mentioned) ...0 -
Ricco, huge loser. He couldn't lie straight in bed, blames his missus etc. However,I can't help but have a soft spot for his complete and continued ridiculousness.0
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Digger Forum - there's a fella who has enjoyed the rich spotlight of 'fame' because of doping!0
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David Walsh now a big winner and reaping returns for years of being beaten by Armstrong's stick. Unfortunately Kimmage lost his way. He should have been a big winner but lost some credibility just at the wrong time.0
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Haha, good old Ricco
So far Winners
Millar
Hincaipe
Losers
Ricco
Plus low level riders0
