Term Time Holidays WTF????
Comments
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Frank the tank wrote:When I was a child I used to get a week at Derbyshire miners holiday camp at Skeg whether I liked it or not.
Not saying it was bad, but the kids in our block had an escape committee.
You didn't say whether you managed to get out.
Mrs Slog is a TA and so it's school holiday times for us too
It's getting easier now that the kids are grown up but when they were little we just had to manage. We couldn't afford the cost of "going to the sun", so it was Wales
most years staying in self catering cottages that were still overpriced but basic. When we had a bit more spare money, mainly because the kids no longer needed afterschool child minders, THEN we went to Greece etc. I sometimes think that these days people seem to expect what they can't really afford
On the subject of of the prices rising for 'peak' periods......
When my dad died, we started taking my mum for a week, often at Whit but later during Easter. My mum used to pay the majority of holiday in return for being looked after like a queen for a week. One year we'd booked this nice place in Angelsey and when I enquired about booking it next year the price had gone up by hundreds. The owner explained to me that she had "Got Easter wrong last year" and had missed out. She honestly said it as if she expected sympathy. :roll:
@Tim Wand Ask your union.
The older I get, the better I was.0 -
A friend is a teacher and f@ck me its stressing listening to her.
She has Thursday off as "prep time" yet uses it to meet mates for coffee. Half a day for "prep" I thought they worked 70 hours a week doing prep??!!?!?
She has just had a day off agreed to work a shorter week. WTF!0 -
I used to think that teachers had the easy life and then I married one.
I wouldn't do that job for any amount of money because the work never stops, 37 hrs at work so far this week and she's got a 14hr day today, when she gets home she works too she must be loopy to want to do it.
What do they get for all of that work...... abuse from clueless parents and Mr Gove.
On a positive note, I do get to go out on the bike and go up the pub as much as I want because she's always working.0 -
This. Research has shown that when you fine people, they regard that as a fee they have paid and therefore it increases their entitlement - and so increases the behaviour you are trying to prevent.NapoleonD wrote:Sod the fine. Pittance compared to the savings. We always ask but if they said no (they never have) we'd just take them anyway.
Personally (speaking as a teacher) I would say that family holidays are way more educational than being in school - but only if the family make them that way. I have happily taken my kids out of school on several occasions, always with the school's permission, which has been readily given, as we have taken care to frame the request in a way that demonstrates the educational value - knowing the right jargon helps here.
And by the way, it is not legally compulsory to send your kids to school, so perhaps you could just tell the school that you are planning to home-school them - then re-enroll them a week later.0 -
MartinGT wrote:A friend is a teacher and f@ck me its stressing listening to her.
She has Thursday off as "prep time" yet uses it to meet mates for coffee. Half a day for "prep" I thought they worked 70 hours a week doing prep??!!?!?
She has just had a day off agreed to work a shorter week. WTF!
I know what you mean Martin.
My wife's a teacher and she gets 1/2 a day "off" a week for planning, marking, making resources, report writing etc. If it's a nice day she'll sometimes go to the allotment to "de-stress".
She seems to think just because she works 4 hours at home every night and all day Sunday she's in some way entitled!...Lazy cow!0 -
Graham. wrote:MartinGT wrote:A friend is a teacher and f@ck me its stressing listening to her.
She has Thursday off as "prep time" yet uses it to meet mates for coffee. Half a day for "prep" I thought they worked 70 hours a week doing prep??!!?!?
She has just had a day off agreed to work a shorter week. WTF!
I know what you mean Martin.
My wife's a teacher and she gets 1/2 a day "off" a week for planning, marking, making resources, report writing etc. If it's a nice day she'll sometimes go to the allotment to "de-stress".
She seems to think just because she works 4 hours at home every night and all day Sunday she's in some way entitled!...Lazy cow!
I cannot understand this at all.
All the teachers I know don't do all these hours that I hear (and read like your wife Graham) so WTF are they not doing that others are?
They are out all weekend, gym and doing other stuff on an evening. Not sat working until 9-10pm at night. When I chat to them about it they tell me they get into work about 7:30ish and leave around 5.0 -
MartinGT wrote:Graham. wrote:MartinGT wrote:A friend is a teacher and f@ck me its stressing listening to her.
She has Thursday off as "prep time" yet uses it to meet mates for coffee. Half a day for "prep" I thought they worked 70 hours a week doing prep??!!?!?
She has just had a day off agreed to work a shorter week. WTF!
I know what you mean Martin.
My wife's a teacher and she gets 1/2 a day "off" a week for planning, marking, making resources, report writing etc. If it's a nice day she'll sometimes go to the allotment to "de-stress".
She seems to think just because she works 4 hours at home every night and all day Sunday she's in some way entitled!...Lazy cow!
I cannot understand this at all.
All the teachers I know don't do all these hours that I hear (and read like your wife Graham) so WTF are they not doing that others are?
They are out all weekend, gym and doing other stuff on an evening. Not sat working until 9-10pm at night. When I chat to them about it they tell me they get into work about 7:30ish and leave around 5.
Wish I knew. I suspect it's something to do with the school/catchment area. My wife works in a school in the rough end of a town in the rough end of Derbyshire* and Mr Gove and his like expects the same results as those of Cheltenham Ladies College. By working the way she has, she and her colleagues have just managed to keep the school out of Special Measures, had this not been the case she would now be under even more pressure and facing yet more inspections by people qualified in God knows what.
She's worked at the same school for the last 20 years and they even frown upon that saying she has shown no signs of progression (the one thing the kids in her school need and crave is some sort of stability, not a constantly changing staff.).
The school has a new head and she and he are getting along just fine, because she has finally put aside any airy fairy leftie notions about doing something good for society. She now just "Plays the game" and chases targets.
I'm afraid that's what its all about now, there's no space in the timetable for education.
* It's quite common to have five or six siblings in the school, all with different fathers.
PS I made her laugh the other day by pointing out that OFSTEAD stood for Overpaid F**ckers Screwing Teachers Every Day! 0 -
What is worse for your wife and the kids in her class. A child that is off for a week on holiday or a disruptive child?0 -
Back sort of on topic.
There seems to be an assumption with the people with the power that education only happens in the classroom.0 -
Graham. wrote:Back sort of on topic.
There seems to be an assumption with the people with the power that education only happens in the classroom.
This is very true.
My son is 5 and is given homework that us as parents have to sit and do with him. We love it and he enjoys the fact that spend quality time and he's learning. This is happening in our home and it'll happen on holiday to.
You so right those in government always make the assumption that education solely takes place in a school. I feel for their children if that is their real thought.0 -
Gazzaputt wrote:Graham. wrote:Back sort of on topic.
There seems to be an assumption with the people with the power that education only happens in the classroom.
This is very true.
My son is 5 and is given homework that us as parents have to sit and do with him. We love it and he enjoys the fact that spend quality time and he's learning. This is happening in our home and it'll happen on holiday to.
You so right those in government always make the assumption that education solely takes place in a school. I feel for their children if that is their real thought.
It seems so easy for some parents now to slap their kid in front of the TV, XBOX, IPad (Delete whats appropriate). Kids are like sponges and are always learning and picking things up.
I dont have children but I have plenty of friends who have and its great to sit and chat and play with them, they love the interaction and you can see they're always thinking and taking stuff on board.0 -
I agree with the points about education in the classroom. Of course it happens everywhere (except in front of junk TV, I wish they did repeats of all the David Attenborough stuff not TOWIE).
I think the problem for teachers and schools is that things are only 'measured' in classroom.
If on holiday a child learns to share, or finds out about seaweed, about changing currency, learns a few foreign words, or something similar then that's great. But it won't count for Ofsted. So the School concentrates on the things that will count.
I teach maths. I have some interesting lessons on mortgages and debt and credit cards etc. I only teach these if we have time because they are not part of the Mathematics GCSE.
Trying to take it back to the Royal Mail poster earlier. Who does Royal Mail think is the best postie. The one that delivers all the letters correctly in 2 hours? Or the postie that talks to the public and a few OAPs and delivers the letters in 2.5 hours? If it's not measured then it tends to get omitted by managers keen to reach targets. (and banks keen to meet targets is what caused the PPI misselling)Giant TCR2 and lovin it!
http://www.trainerroad.com/career/pipipi0 -
When you say supply & demand...
There is no choice for parents.
Having said that, taking a kid on a holiday during term time means they have no mates to play with whilst they are away. Much of the fun of taking kids on holiday is seeing them playing with their holiday friends in the sea or whatever.
At least with other companies that take the p*ss, like Burger King and WHSmith who put their prices up at stations etc, you have the ability to never shop at any of their stores ever, which is what I do. They take advantage, I don't shop with them. Simple.0 -
Missus teaches rising fives and works her butt off from the time she gets up till she goes to bed, weekends and most of holidays. Her half day prep time is often missed because of staff shortages. Balance of work and home? Nah. And holidays have to be taken during peak times. She does it because she is dedicated and cares passionately about the kids she teaches. And pay has been pretty much frozen for about 4 years now. Ain't life a beach
School had a discretionary policy towards term time holidays. Now they don't. I could give you chapter and verse about some of the ways in which parents manipulate the system to serve their own selfish ends at the expense of their kids education. Some would make your hair curl. But I won't. You would expect a level of responsibility but regrettably it doesn't often happen so legislation becomes necessary0 -
all very controversial...
Where's the fence?0 -
Mikey23 wrote:I could give you chapter and verse about some of the ways in which parents manipulate the system to serve their own selfish ends at the expense of their kids education. Some would make your hair curl. But I won't.
Go on Mikey, just a couple of snippets…..I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
Absolultey sod all to do with education, when a kid gets ill and is off for a week does it affect there overall education? (not including run up to exam dates) Somebody is employed to make up these daft rules, my mate owns a garage and not so long ago received a bill so he can listen to the radio in work. I mean come on the country is going mad and the population just sit back and allow it to happen.
Take your kid on holiday and show him the world...0 -
It's amazing how many children are "ill" the week before a holiday. One of those serious illnesses that lasts for a whole week, but they never showed any symptoms beforehand...0
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Family time is more precious to me and to my children. My Son's are 6 and 3 and I know far well that a week off school won't hinder their education or future prospects but from experience I know they will remember never having holidays or family time as they were growing up. As above, when children are at exam age then yes, it could potentially have adverse effects but not at >11 years old.
My Sons school aren't enforcing fines etc, they will review holiday applications on a child-by-child basis which I think is a good, common sense approach.
If this wasn't the case then I'd be asking for money from my local authority to cover childcare costs when teachers have a 'strike' or 'training day' - obviously my kids education isn't that important on those days?…..“Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”0 -
jordan_217 wrote:Family time is more precious to me and to my children. My Son's are 6 and 3 and I know far well that a week off school won't hinder their education or future prospects but from experience I know they will remember never having holidays or family time as they were growing up. As above, when children are at exam age then yes, it could potentially have adverse effects but not at >11 years old.
My Sons school aren't enforcing fines etc, they will review holiday applications on a child-by-child basis which I think is a good, common sense approach.
If this wasn't the case then I'd be asking for money from my local authority to cover childcare costs when teachers have a 'strike' or 'training day' - obviously my kids education isn't that important on those days?…..
I completely agree with all of that except the last point. A training day isn't counted as one of the days a child should attend school. Training days (or Baker Days) were taken out of the holidays that teachers and pupils already got. So no difference for the pupil, 5 days less holiday for the teachers. The strange bit is working out when these training days are taken. Almost completely up to the school's discretion.
But I can see your point about asking for money for childcare when there is a strike. But how about when the school is shut due to snow? (next Thursday if the long range forecasts are correct) I think in America that any days 'lost' to bad weather in winter get added onto the summer term to make sure all pupils do exactly the same number of days every year. Not sure what would happen to a prebooked holiday then!Giant TCR2 and lovin it!
http://www.trainerroad.com/career/pipipi0 -
jordan_217 wrote:Family time is more precious to me and to my children. My Son's are 6 and 3 and I know far well that a week off school won't hinder their education or future prospects but from experience I know they will remember never having holidays or family time as they were growing up. As above, when children are at exam age then yes, it could potentially have adverse effects but not at >11 years old.
As I said upthread, I remember having holidays in France, Scotland, Norfolk Broads, Lake District etc, some of them I remember quite well as a boy they were important moments in my life and I would have life would have been all the lesser without them. In contrast I remember little about what I was doing in school at the time.
I think secondary school, and especially GCSE's are a different matter. But I fear that once my daughter is 4 she'll only have day trips and weekends away as that's all we can afford, and it's not about not spending money - it really is the difference between being able to afford a holiday and not going at all.0 -
Another ingredient into the mix....
Try arranging holidays when you live on the border between two LEAs.
We had a spell when No1 son was at a school in one LEA (it was only three miles away) and No2 son was at school in a second LEA. The holiday times for these two LEAs didn't correspond with each other!
Add the complication that Mrs Slog works as a TA for No2 son's LEA, so she has to take their hols. I work in further education in the same district as No1 son, and we follow that LEAs hols (close but not quite :roll: ) and you can imagine what it was like trying to arrange a holiday.
I actually wrote to MPs about it at the time (did no f*cking good of course), because at about that time they were going on about "family values " and "how families should do more together". :evil:
The older I get, the better I was.0 -
pipipi wrote:jordan_217 wrote:Family time is more precious to me and to my children. My Son's are 6 and 3 and I know far well that a week off school won't hinder their education or future prospects but from experience I know they will remember never having holidays or family time as they were growing up. As above, when children are at exam age then yes, it could potentially have adverse effects but not at >11 years old.
My Sons school aren't enforcing fines etc, they will review holiday applications on a child-by-child basis which I think is a good, common sense approach.
If this wasn't the case then I'd be asking for money from my local authority to cover childcare costs when teachers have a 'strike' or 'training day' - obviously my kids education isn't that important on those days?…..
I completely agree with all of that except the last point. A training day isn't counted as one of the days a child should attend school. Training days (or Baker Days) were taken out of the holidays that teachers and pupils already got. So no difference for the pupil, 5 days less holiday for the teachers. The strange bit is working out when these training days are taken. Almost completely up to the school's discretion.
But I can see your point about asking for money for childcare when there is a strike. But how about when the school is shut due to snow? (next Thursday if the long range forecasts are correct) I think in America that any days 'lost' to bad weather in winter get added onto the summer term to make sure all pupils do exactly the same number of days every year. Not sure what would happen to a prebooked holiday then!
Good point regarding the training day. Perhaps I had over used the booster saddle on my horse. I stand by my "strike" comment though “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”0 -
Perhaps we should spearhead a campaign against the fines. My bumper sticker slogan to get the ball rolling "The world is a class room, go and learn - f*ck the fine!"“Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”0
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I can understand the frustration of parents but the arguments aren't helped by things like 'my child learns more on holiday than in the classroom' - maybe they do but if you didn't take your child out of class in term time, does that mean they wouldn't go on holiday? Do they learn more sat at home during the summer holiday period after they've come back from their term time holiday than they would have in the class? If they went on holiday outside term time would they just go on a cheaper holiday? (When I was little, our family holidays were all camping trips - sometimes in the UK and sometimes in Europe. You don't have to go far - the children won't mind where you go. Or is it more about where you want to go? In which case, should you have had children?). Or would the parents stump up the fine?
Or would they decide to take their disapproval of the fine system out on their children by depriving them of a holiday altogether? The only honest response to this issue is that the parents are taking their children out of class to save money. That's it - nothing else.
I don't know - I struggle to be sympathetic on this one. What happens if everyone decides to take their children out of class on the last week of term? The real cause of the problem here is not the schools and their fines but the holiday/travel companies for charging more in school holidays. But they are just behaving in accordance with perfectly normal laws of capitalism (something which a lot of folk on here are quite assertive in their defence of!).
If you can't afford to go on holiday because of a £360 fine, then you can't afford to go on holiday full stop.
And if the above all sounds mad to all you parents (and of course I don't have children myself!) then that's exactly how the parents arguments sound to me!Faster than a tent.......0 -
Rolf F wrote:The only honest response to this issue is that the parents are taking their children out of class to save money. That's it - nothing else.
Of course it comes down to money, But that's not the point, it's the difference between able to go on holiday and not being able to go on holiday. Yes that comes down to money but that's how the world works.0 -
Rolf F wrote:
If you can't afford to go on holiday because of a £360 fine, then you can't afford to go on holiday full stop.
£360 would be a huge help taking a family away on a budget off peak times. Not everyones holidays include jetting off around the world at the cost of thousands.0 -
£360 is the typical price difference for cottage in term time vs out of term time. As said, that cost would make the difference between going and not going.
The most sensible solution is not to clamp down, or to start fining people, but to allow holidays on a controlled basis. Can anyone really say a week away during primary school is going to make any difference?!
There's more to life than ticking boxes, kids need to have a good life too.0
