is the hardtail a dying breed?

124678

Comments

  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    njee20 wrote:
    Mmmm, yes, I just want to go fast, not really bothered about it encouraging good behaviour or more skill or anything!

    I don't understand the argument about learning good technique on a hardtail before moving on to a full sus bike. Why learn the skills if your not going to need them?
    I learnt to ride a hardtail, worked hard to ride smooth and fast to keep up with mates only to find that everything I learnt was a waste when I got a full sus bike.

    Not really, the skills you can learn on a hardtail when it goes wrong are very applicable to full sus. Full sus bikes let you get away with an awful lot, especially the bumbling people at trail centres who ride 160mm travel FS bikes and when they go to quick for their skill level they haven't got the foggiest how to save it, because they didn't learn to handle a bike properly on a hardtail, as they're less forgiving you'll be going a tad slower and you have to learn how to save it when it goes wrong. I rode hardtails for 6 years before my first full sus and I think those 6 years are invaluable now.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    You just need to know how to ride the bikes you own. I think I have learnt more about bike control from my downhill bike than I learnt from my hardtails.
    There are a lot of people at trail centres on bikes which are completely ott and can get them to speeds beyond their abilities very easily because they steam roller everything. Thats just a general lack of experience and a belief that you can buy skill with a big bike.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Budget of course is going to play a part. Up to £1000 and HTs are usually the better bet.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    I love the dismissive, condescending attitude towards us newbies displayed by some folk on here, makes me chuckle. :lol:
  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    I love the dismissive, condescending attitude towards us newbies displayed by some folk on here, makes me chuckle. :lol:

    Not just noobs, but generally people who act like noobs, even if they've been riding years :lol:
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...
  • paulneenan76
    paulneenan76 Posts: 777
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...

    ^^^^^this. But I punctured his tyres out of spite when he wasn't looking ;D
    Family, Friends, Fantastic trails - what else is there

    viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12898838
    viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12897374
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    paulneenan76 wrote:
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...

    ^^^^^this. But I punctured his tyres out of spite when he wasn't looking ;D

    Did you get the guy who's faster than him too though? :wink:
  • paul.skibum
    paul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    lawman wrote:
    Northwind wrote:
    I think the only trail centre where I'd definitely choose full suss over hardtail is laggan tbh. Some of the stonepitched welsh stuff is slightly harder work on a hardtail but that makes it fun, smoothing that stuff out seems to miss the point a bit. Glentress black's rubbly surface does go a wee bit better on a bouncer, and a couple of innerleithen black rock gardens... Oh and some of the pedally sections at lee quarry, the first stone pitched climb definitely. But mostly trail centres are literally built for hardtails.

    Last descent on the ClimachX doesn't look too hardtail friendly, will find out when I take the BFe. :lol:

    I agree with Sonic, there are an awful lot of weekend warriors and people who just go to centres for a social pootle about, it's good that more people are enjoying riding and it's good for the industry, but getting held up by a stubborn middle-aged fat bloke on a quick descent isn't good. Be respectful of others, be polite and quite frankly it doesn't matter what bike you ride, as long as you're having fun and not being a complete a tool all is well! :)

    That last descent was OK on my Cove - had no issues other than getting stuck in some mud!

    The number of riders I see at trail centres sat in their saddles and allowing the bounce to do the work for them on a descent suggests some people need to work out how to ride a bike and much as I generally disagree with the idea that you can learn skills better on a hardtail, if you sit in your saddle on a FS you should be banned from using it until you work out what your legs are for. Yes these are probably the weekend warriors referred to above. Shouldn't be allowed. Disgrace.
    Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.
  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...

    Indeed there is and when they do catch me I shall pull over and let them past, as is the way it should be done.
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    lawman wrote:
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...

    Indeed there is and when they do catch me I shall pull over and let them past, as is the way it should be done.

    I'd see it more like trackday etiquette - it's up to the faster rider to wait and find a suitable, safe place to pass the slower. You've got no more right to be on the trail than anyone else, just because you may be faster than them.
  • Cookeh
    Cookeh Posts: 351
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    lawman wrote:
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...

    Indeed there is and when they do catch me I shall pull over and let them past, as is the way it should be done.

    I'd see it more like trackday etiquette - it's up to the faster rider to wait and find a suitable, safe place to pass the slower. You've got no more right to be on the trail than anyone else, just because you may be faster than them.

    This. Whilst admittedly I am slower due to a lower skill level, I should not be harassed for my speed and then passed repeatedly on rock gardens/corners, forcing me off my line and greatly increasing the risk of me stacking it. If and when it is safe to let them pass, I will, however, always do so.
  • Kiliscott
    Kiliscott Posts: 82
    I see plenty of full suss bikes and plenty of people doing trails on XC hardtails. Although, I very rarely see (if any) Long travel hardtails. But no I don't think the HT will ''die'' out at all IMO.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    I go for a polite request to pass at the next convenient spot when I'm behind a slower rider and appreciate the same from faster riders.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    Cookeh wrote:
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    lawman wrote:
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...

    Indeed there is and when they do catch me I shall pull over and let them past, as is the way it should be done.

    I'd see it more like trackday etiquette - it's up to the faster rider to wait and find a suitable, safe place to pass the slower. You've got no more right to be on the trail than anyone else, just because you may be faster than them.

    This. Whilst admittedly I am slower due to a lower skill level, I should not be harassed for my speed and then passed repeatedly on rock gardens/corners, forcing me off my line and greatly increasing the risk of me stacking it. If and when it is safe to let them pass, I will, however, always do so.

    I'm not by any means saying people should instantly jump of the way, when it's safe to do so let whoever's behind you past. It's polite, shouldn't cause unnecessary accidents or grief or ruin the trail for either rider :) I'd happily move to the side when possible if a faster rider was behind me, then I'd try and keep with him, learn some new lines perhaps and see how he rides, you could learn something new from them as well.
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    I'd quite happily move out of the way for a faster rider (which is pretty much everyone, lol) when there's room to do so (I'd rather have them past and in front of me, rather than riding up my chuff), but if they were being a dick about it then I wouldn't be moving.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    I'd see it more like trackday etiquette - it's up to the faster rider to wait and find a suitable, safe place to pass the slower. You've got no more right to be on the trail than anyone else, just because you may be faster than them.

    Thing is it's far easier to pass on track than it is to pass on most trails, there's generally room for 1 bike. At trailcentres I figure it's mostly up to people to exercise some common sense at the start of descents, it's not often a section's more than a couple of minutes long so it's not exactly difficult to allow gaps between you and the person in front.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    Northwind wrote:
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    I'd see it more like trackday etiquette - it's up to the faster rider to wait and find a suitable, safe place to pass the slower. You've got no more right to be on the trail than anyone else, just because you may be faster than them.

    Thing is it's far easier to pass on track than it is to pass on most trails, there's generally room for 1 bike. At trailcentres I figure it's mostly up to people to exercise some common sense at the start of descents, it's not often a section's more than a couple of minutes long so it's not exactly difficult to allow gaps between you and the person in front.

    If there's other riders at the start of a section I'll usually ask if they want to go first (since it's unlikely I'm gonna be faster than they are), then leave a decent gap before setting off myself (so they can't see my embarassing riding, lol)..
  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    I'd quite happily move out of the way for a faster rider (which is pretty much everyone, lol) when there's room to do so (I'd rather have them past and in front of me, rather than riding up my chuff), but if they were being a dick about it then I wouldn't be moving.

    Agreed the guy behind has to be decent about, no point being a dick, just ask politely if you can get past when it's safe to do so and be on your way. I always think just act the way you'd expect to be treated by another rider, put yourself in the other guys shoes, as you say it's no fun having a guy buzzing your back wheel, hell this might happen!!
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    lawman wrote:
    as you say it's no fun having a guy buzzing your back wheel, hell this might happen!!

    :lol: Yeah, seen that one before. To be fair, I'm on his side in that one - she did stop dead for no reason in the middle of the trail (if you're gonna stop then at least check behind you first), and even I'm faster than she was going (in full face lid and full body armour :lol: ). Some serious trail tantrums going on there. :lol:
  • Kiliscott
    Kiliscott Posts: 82
    Trail rage
  • Angus Young
    Angus Young Posts: 3,063
    Such a shame he apologised so profusely. She'll have walked away from that feeling totally vindicated instead of learning a lesson.
    All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
    Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12994607
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    Angus Young wrote:
    Such a shame he apologised so profusely. She'll have walked away from that feeling totally vindicated instead of learning a lesson.

    I have to say that, IMHO, she did deserve a Five Ten up her fanny... :lol:
  • Cookeh
    Cookeh Posts: 351
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    Angus Young wrote:
    Such a shame he apologised so profusely. She'll have walked away from that feeling totally vindicated instead of learning a lesson.

    I have to say that, IMHO, she did deserve a Five Ten up her fanny... :lol:

    Full Susser, full body armour, full face lid, and crawling on a blue. Wow. Not to mention blowing things way out proportion - the 100mph statement had me in stitches, as did the "thing Ive broken my leg", and the irony of being concerned over her bike despite her first instinct being to pick it up and throw it at him!

    I'm not entirely sure how I would react in that situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't be so apologetic over it.
  • Kowalski675
    Kowalski675 Posts: 4,412
    Ditch and head on backwards?
  • ste_t
    ste_t Posts: 1,599
    hell this might happen!!

    Reminds me of someone smashing into the back of Richie.....
  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    ste_t wrote:
    hell this might happen!!

    Reminds me of someone smashing into the back of Richie.....

    I have no idea what you talking about!!! :oops: Tbf the womans reaction kind of reminded me of you when your chips didn't arrive :P
  • ste_t
    ste_t Posts: 1,599
    lawman wrote:
    ste_t wrote:
    hell this might happen!!

    Reminds me of someone smashing into the back of Richie.....

    I have no idea what you talking about!!! :oops: Tbf the womans reaction kind of reminded me of you when your chips didn't arrive :P

    Touché
  • paulneenan76
    paulneenan76 Posts: 777
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    paulneenan76 wrote:
    Kowalski675 wrote:
    There's always someone better and faster than you out there...

    ^^^^^this. But I punctured his tyres out of spite when he wasn't looking ;D

    Did you get the guy who's faster than him too though? :wink:

    Couldn't catch him, just too quick for me ;D
    Family, Friends, Fantastic trails - what else is there

    viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12898838
    viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12897374
  • mattrixdesign2
    mattrixdesign2 Posts: 644
    I love riding a HT with primitive 26inch wheels, whilst being clipped in :) light and nimble. Up hill I easily blast past people bobbing up and down, on bigger wheeled bikes with flat pedals. Problem is they catch me up on the descents!!! To be honest I don't really give a ****, the simplicity of a HT suits my busy and cost conscious life style. Bikes are getting too complex and clever for their own good, the joy of riding is the human input and easily maintainable mechanics, and getting out there.

Categories