is the hardtail a dying breed?

Ulysses

7448stewart wrote:

trail centers like gisburn and grizdale, Lee quarry, Rivington and even some downhill at the amazing bike park Wales but I can honestly say that I only see many 2 other riders on hardtails, it seems that everyone is going for full sus and I believe that the hardtail is now an endangered species!

What do you all think?

I think theres a clue in your question. Trail centers. Hit some bridleways round where you live, you'll likely see some more HTs.
Horses for courses. Trail centers are designed to be more challenging than the average trails in the country side, so folks more inclined to ride there would (its reasonable to assume) be more inclined to buy bikes more suited to their needs (or perhaps bikes that they feel are more suited) ... thats not to say everyone who rides trail centers buys FS, or that those who ride trail centers on HT's cant afford a FS.
Its personal chioce based on prices of bikes, budget, application and skill level.

morepower

Proper fast riders will be fast or at least faster than 99.9% of us on anything regardless of spec, configuration or location.

I have passed some guys on full sus bikes and been passed by guys on single speed rigid's.. It is the rider more than the bike..

lawman

Hardtails can be great fun, I'm loving my new BFe atm, lots of fun for blasting about on but for a long day in the saddle or something gnarly I'd take the FS. As much fun as the hardtail is though if I could only have one bike it'd a FS.

Herdwick29.

njee20 wrote:

You deserve flaming for complaining about slow hardtails after comparing a £300 one to a Scott Genius! Bit of an irrelevant comparison!

Welcome.

:oops: My intention was not to compare the two, I can't exploit the potential of the genius at the moment

My point is you can have as much fun with either!!!

After the end of a long run on the se1800 I have that grin on my face....

stubs

I own a HT therefore I am a poor working class gobby Northener, I look up to middle class FS riding Southerners who find Trail centers challenging. Hold on thats not right I ride a HT therefore I look down on taril center riding gods on FS bikes. No no thats not right I ride a HT therefore I am a riding god, nope thats not right let me see, I look down/up on people who ride................No thats not it either

I ride a bike

Thats it ! got there in the end.

7448stewart

Ulysses wrote:

I think theres a clue in your question. Trail centers. Hit some bridleways round where you live, you'll likely see some more HTs.

Rivington and Lee quarry are bridleways, so there isnt any clue in my question mate :shock: sorry to shoot you down

mcnultycop

7448stewart wrote:

Ulysses wrote:

I think theres a clue in your question. Trail centers. Hit some bridleways round where you live, you'll likely see some more HTs.

Rivington and Lee quarry are bridleways, so there isnt any clue in my question mate :shock: sorry to shoot you down

Lee Quarry has some small sections of bridleway, but it is hardly all bridleway. It might not be a traditional trail centre, but it is still a trail centre. One that for me is miles more fun on my full susser, but us still rideable on my xc hardtail.

The Rookie

I'd say at Cannock it is usually 50/50....some days a you see more of one than the other.

Definitely not dying out though!

Ulysses

7448stewart wrote:

Ulysses wrote:

I think theres a clue in your question. Trail centers. Hit some bridleways round where you live, you'll likely see some more HTs.

Rivington and Lee quarry are bridleways, so there isnt any clue in my question mate :shock: sorry to shoot you down

Sure, mate, so do many others. You're missing my point though

buddy_club

Cannock last weekend was pretty much everybody on full suspension, saw about 5 hardtails including mine an one mod my riding buddies, however, out on the easy trails and footpaths where I live, everyone I see is on hardtails, or sh*te £100 halfords BSO's, like others have said, depends where your riding...

step83

Generally where i ride you see most of the guys on the big jumps are riding full sussers the XC and ingletrack bits tend to be mainly hardtails. You get some crossovers of course.
More comes down to how you ride, some people prefer hard tails other full sussers doesnt make you a lesser rider for choosing one over the other.

Herdwick29.

Step83 wrote:

Generally where i ride you see most of the guys on the big jumps are riding full sussers the XC and ingletrack bits tend to be mainly hardtails. You get some crossovers of course.
More comes down to how you ride, some people prefer hard tails other full sussers doesnt make you a lesser rider for choosing one over the other.

I say a good rider may choose a HT for the challenge, if the trail isn't a DH course and won't cut in half a HT* give it a go and enjoy the thrill.
* Not all HT are the same...

supersonic

I'm in no doubt that the trail centre has created a new breed of rider. Not a bad thing - get out and ride and all that. But for many the centres have become an escape for those who fancy a hobby and getting fit, spend a couple of grand and the natural choice seems to be a full susser.

Northwind

I think the only trail centre where I'd definitely choose full suss over hardtail is laggan tbh. Some of the stonepitched welsh stuff is slightly harder work on a hardtail but that makes it fun, smoothing that stuff out seems to miss the point a bit. Glentress black's rubbly surface does go a wee bit better on a bouncer, and a couple of innerleithen black rock gardens... Oh and some of the pedally sections at lee quarry, the first stone pitched climb definitely. But mostly trail centres are literally built for hardtails.

lawman

Northwind wrote:

I think the only trail centre where I'd definitely choose full suss over hardtail is laggan tbh. Some of the stonepitched welsh stuff is slightly harder work on a hardtail but that makes it fun, smoothing that stuff out seems to miss the point a bit. Glentress black's rubbly surface does go a wee bit better on a bouncer, and a couple of innerleithen black rock gardens... Oh and some of the pedally sections at lee quarry, the first stone pitched climb definitely. But mostly trail centres are literally built for hardtails.

Last descent on the ClimachX doesn't look too hardtail friendly, will find out when I take the BFe.

I agree with Sonic, there are an awful lot of weekend warriors and people who just go to centres for a social pootle about, it's good that more people are enjoying riding and it's good for the industry, but getting held up by a stubborn middle-aged fat bloke on a quick descent isn't good. Be respectful of others, be polite and quite frankly it doesn't matter what bike you ride, as long as you're having fun and not being a complete a tool all is well!

Kowalski675

lawman wrote:

but getting held up by a stubborn middle-aged fat bloke on a quick descent isn't good

What about middle aged thin blokes?

mcnultycop

Northwind wrote:

Oh and some of the pedally sections at lee quarry, the first stone pitched climb definitely.

I've still never cleared that thing. I've had one good fall off it too, making a good effort but someone even less talented than me had stopped on it.

plymouthsteve

I went HT,HT,HT, FS, HT and have kept and upgraded the last HT for 5 years, the longest I've kept a bike. Oh, and rightly or wrongly, they were all stumpjumpers, so it's a reasonable comparison.
I'm forty something, a bit overweight yet have several KOM's that I'm sure I wouldn't have with a FS. The reason? Hills. To go down a hill, you have to get up it first and almost without exception, most HT's will go up quicker than the equivalent FS, because they're lighter and stiffer.
Sure the FS will be quicker going back down, especially if its bumpy, but most hills that take 5 mins to go down take 15 mins to go up. So the advantage is 3x for the HT.
Also, on the bumpy stuff with a Hardtail, I have something called legs that kind of act as suspension.
The big thing though that is probarbly stopping the FS exodus is the 29er. Better rolling and and a more comfortable ride for HT money will really split the difference for alot of people, and has perhaps brought the HT back in to contention more of late.
Not knocking FS, .. I quite enjoyed mine in many ways, but it's a bit like people who drive 4x4's. Most of the time it's just wasted cost and energy, but occasionally they wave as they leave the rest of us behind.
Personally, I'm happy to the fastest and most efficient 90% of the time, and politely wave back the other 10%

Northwind

lawman wrote:

Last descent on the ClimachX doesn't look too hardtail friendly, will find out when I take the BFe.

To be fair, that was one of the rides that made me decide my mmmbop was too bloomin stiff for its own good

Angus Young

lawman wrote:

but getting held up by a stubborn middle-aged fat bloke on a quick descent isn't good. Be respectful of others, be polite and quite frankly it doesn't matter what bike you ride, as long as you're having fun and not being a complete a tool all is well!

I suspect the irony is lost on you...

BigAl

plymouthsteve wrote:

I went HT,HT,HT, FS, HT and have kept and upgraded the last HT for 5 years, the longest I've kept a bike. Oh, and rightly or wrongly, they were all stumpjumpers, so it's a reasonable comparison.
I'm forty something, a bit overweight yet have several KOM's that I'm sure I wouldn't have with a FS. The reason? Hills. To go down a hill, you have to get up it first and almost without exception, most HT's will go up quicker than the equivalent FS, because they're lighter and stiffer.
Sure the FS will be quicker going back down, especially if its bumpy, but most hills that take 5 mins to go down take 15 mins to go up. So the advantage is 3x for the HT.
Also, on the bumpy stuff with a Hardtail, I have something called legs that kind of act as suspension.
The big thing though that is probarbly stopping the FS exodus is the 29er. Better rolling and and a more comfortable ride for HT money will really split the difference for alot of people, and has perhaps brought the HT back in to contention more of late.
Not knocking FS, .. I quite enjoyed mine in many ways, but it's a bit like people who drive 4x4's. Most of the time it's just wasted cost and energy, but occasionally they wave as they leave the rest of us behind.
Personally, I'm happy to the fastest and most efficient 90% of the time, and politely wave back the other 10%

Not gonna argue with you - because I largely agree - but ....

Something that's often forgotten - FS is not just to get you over the gnarly stuff - it's about traction too.

So, my Anthem, which is one of the first ones and has 'only' 80mm rear travel, is faster than my HT uphill - simply because the rear wheel has more traction, because it doesn't bounce around so much. And it's faster downhill too - but nothing like some 160mm rig.

You can't just bucket 'FS versus HT' - it's a continuous line.

lawman

Northwind wrote:

lawman wrote:

Last descent on the ClimachX doesn't look too hardtail friendly, will find out when I take the BFe.

To be fair, that was one of the rides that made me decide my mmmbop was too bloomin stiff for its own good

Anyone who thinks trail centres are too "easy" needs to ride that trail, the first half is average but the second the climbs are long old slogs and the last few are far more technical than any other centre I've been to and the last descent is just a rock fest, I think it's bloody brilliant!

johnny25

I'm a roadie and decided to give a hardtail a go during the winter months, because I'm too soft to take the road bike out in the wet and cold weather.

F***ing hell it's brilliant!

bigmitch41

I went hardtail as its my first pushiron since I was about 14 and didnt have a massive budget, & wanted to see how I got on before upgrading the bike. Its a 26" Rockhopper and I love it, upgraded the fork to a set of Reba's and really chuffed with it. Thinking about going 29er in the future, and possibly fs as im now 42 and nursing one or two old injury's from my roadracing, so could do with a bit of comfort, but for now Im sticking with my 26" hardtail!

The Rookie

Of course it is, much better scenery that just seeing a ribbon of tarmac ahead of you with no need to look at it as it's all the same.

Glad you have turned from the dark side and seen the light.

njee20

Plenty of roadies dig out the MTBs in winter anyway, just as a lot of MTBers turn to the road in winter!

Something that's often forgotten - FS is not just to get you over the gnarly stuff - it's about traction too.

Agreed - last time I raced a hardtail in anger (2006) it was on the climbs and even more so the flats that it was a hindrance. Downhill you just bounce off things, didn't make much difference, but on anything but a smooth climb having to move around constantly was more tiring. Even more so on the flat - on FS you could just sit and turn a gear over, on the hardtail one was constantly moving around more.

Kinda hoping a 29er will be less of an issue in that respect. Screwed otherwise.

stubs

njee20 wrote:

Plenty of roadies dig out the MTBs in winter anyway, just as a lot of MTBers turn to the road in winter!

Something that's often forgotten - FS is not just to get you over the gnarly stuff - it's about traction too.

Agreed - last time I raced a hardtail in anger (2006) it was on the climbs and even more so the flats that it was a hindrance. Downhill you just bounce off things, didn't make much difference, but on anything but a smooth climb having to move around constantly was more tiring. Even more so on the flat - on FS you could just sit and turn a gear over, on the hardtail one was constantly moving around more.

Kinda hoping a 29er will be less of an issue in that respect. Screwed otherwise.

Going from a 120mm FS toba 100mm carbon HT wasnt as bad as I expected traction is surprisingly good but it is noticeably more tiring on a long bumpy climb. I am running out of puff at about the 12 mile mark where the FS I could do a few more miles. I deliberately went for a HT to push myself plonking my fat arris on the saddle and letting the suspension look after me was making me lazy. I reckon my bike handling has improved already just waiting bfor the fitness

njee20

Mmmm, yes, I just want to go fast, not really bothered about it encouraging good behaviour or more skill or anything!

chrisrobs

I hope not ive just bought an on one 456 to build up.

rockmonkeysc

njee20 wrote:

Mmmm, yes, I just want to go fast, not really bothered about it encouraging good behaviour or more skill or anything!

I don't understand the argument about learning good technique on a hardtail before moving on to a full sus bike. Why learn the skills if your not going to need them?
I learnt to ride a hardtail, worked hard to ride smooth and fast to keep up with mates only to find that everything I learnt was a waste when I got a full sus bike.