Stages Power Meter - battery draining?

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  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    That's true, but compare the complaints of issues with Stages to that of SRM, Power2max, Quarq, PowerTap, etc. and it's fairly clear that they are more prone to failure than other power meters.

    I thought similar to you until I bought one and had to start p!ssing around drying the thing out when it gets a bit cold.
    More problems but still living....
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    amaferanga wrote:
    That's true, but compare the complaints of issues with Stages to that of SRM, Power2max, Quarq, PowerTap, etc. and it's fairly clear that they are more prone to failure than other power meters.
    .

    Not the powertap p1's. The bearing issues and subsequent unreliable data are to powertap what the battery issues are to stages.
  • teebs_123
    teebs_123 Posts: 357
    redvision wrote:
    amaferanga wrote:
    That's true, but compare the complaints of issues with Stages to that of SRM, Power2max, Quarq, PowerTap, etc. and it's fairly clear that they are more prone to failure than other power meters.
    .

    Not the powertap p1's. The bearing issues and subsequent unreliable data are to powertap what the battery issues are to stages.

    My P1's also had battery issues - back to Wiggle for a full refund, now spent on a Dzero.
    Orbea Orca OMX DI2 MyO
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  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Yesterday after .. perhaps 5 days and nights at constant sub zero temps, I had a low battery warning.
    Just checked after a mild night of 6 degrees and wattage over 3, which indicates a good state.
    Calibrated ok as well... checked with the Stages and IPbike apps.
    I dont like the fact that it transmits BT all the time when all i need is ant+ however... it has also survived 5 nighttime bike washes to get the winter salt filth off it this week.
  • pastryboy
    pastryboy Posts: 1,385
    Stages had a look at my .fit files.

    The voltage was dropping and recovering during rides. The voltage is sometimes dropping to a point where a low battery warning is given - the battery is still OK but needs to recover.

    Stages are blaming the battery resistance but, as I said in a previous post, seems fishy to me as CR2032 batteries have worked fine for me on the bike in other items.
  • PK1
    PK1 Posts: 193
    Mine has the same symptoms i.e. Changed the battery, next day a Battery Low message, checked the battery status using the Edge 520 Sensor -> About and it showed Critical. I ignored it and went for a ride, it's now showing OK Battery Status!
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    pastryboy wrote:

    Stages are blaming the battery resistance but, as I said in a previous post, seems fishy to me as CR2032 batteries have worked fine for me on the bike in other items.
    Smacks of poor electronic design (or desperation to deflect blame) to me - if the device is designed to run on a 3 volt lithium coin cell, the exact characteristics of the cell should be immaterial (or they should say only brand X batteries are certified to work) because who knows what changes in manufacturing or chemistry in the battery will be made over the lifetime of the device?

    Seems there are many inherent faults with the Stages cranks revealed now:

    1. Water ingress to the battery compartment seemingly due to the design of the battery compartment cover.
    2. "The wrong sort of battery"
    3. ANT+ dropouts when using certain out-front mounts and Garmin 520/820/1000 not present with other crank mounted power meter solutions
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Stages support have an 'answer' for everything that attempts to make all the issues seem quite normal!

    If they require a specific brand battery then they should make that clear (like p2max did with Renata). That they didn't from the start points to yet another 'explanation' aimed at creating uncertainty about whether its down to operator error by using the wrong brand of batteries.

    Mine is going back to Saddleback for a warranty assessment. I hope they give me the option of a refund because these things are just a joke.
    More problems but still living....
  • pastryboy
    pastryboy Posts: 1,385
    I pushed for a refund but from what I was told they'll either repair or replace then, if it fails again, it would be refund time. At least I have a decent warranty on it.
  • supermurph09
    supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    sub zero ride on sunday, dead PM on tuesday. Swapped the battery but could not get any calibration last night and therefore no power readings at all. Will take it off tonight and have a look at it but this really shouldn't be happening.

    (Gen2).
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  • lochindaal
    lochindaal Posts: 475
    I have just started having the same issue with my Stages Gen2 (warranty replacement on a S1 last year)

    Mail from Stages support
    We have seen a spike in reports similar to yours and most seem to be related to storing the bike in an uninsulated garage. Unfortunately, we have seen that prolonged exposure to colder temperatures are resulting in batteries that are showing up flat. In almost every instance, we have seen that removing the battery from these conditions and allowing them to warm up inside, they will spring back to life. What is happening there is an inverse relationship between the temperature and the internal resistance within the battery. When the resistance builds up too high, it will not allow enough voltage to flow out from the battery. If you have any of these troublesome batteries, try bringing it into your home for a few hours and see if it can power the meter on.

    I have sent them the datasheet for the batteries which says they work from -60C - +30C degrees.

    I would expect not to have to keep my bike in a warm house to be able to use their product!
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  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    As any electrical engineer or physicist knows, voltage doesn't flow at any temperature. Current (clue is in the name) flows.
  • paul_onabike
    paul_onabike Posts: 194
    lochindaal wrote:
    I have just started having the same issue with my Stages Gen2 (warranty replacement on a S1 last year)

    Mail from Stages support
    We have seen a spike in reports similar to yours and most seem to be related to storing the bike in an uninsulated garage. Unfortunately, we have seen that prolonged exposure to colder temperatures are resulting in batteries that are showing up flat. In almost every instance, we have seen that removing the battery from these conditions and allowing them to warm up inside, they will spring back to life. What is happening there is an inverse relationship between the temperature and the internal resistance within the battery. When the resistance builds up too high, it will not allow enough voltage to flow out from the battery. If you have any of these troublesome batteries, try bringing it into your home for a few hours and see if it can power the meter on.

    I have sent them the datasheet for the batteries which says they work from -60C - +30C degrees.

    I would expect not to have to keep my bike in a warm house to be able to use their product!

    If the manufacturers selected battery size cannot provide enough current at low temperatures to operate correctly then surely it is not fit for purpose?

    It should work in all expected weather conditions in the country of sale, unless the manufacturer states otherwise in their user instructions and sales information.

    Blaming the owner for storing their bike in a cold garage is a very poor excuse.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Stages have a book of excuses all aimed at creating uncertainty with users. They really are a joke of a company and I can't wait to get a refund on mine. I'll stick with Power2max from now.
    More problems but still living....
  • dee4life2005
    dee4life2005 Posts: 773
    I had a stages power meter that worked all through the summer, and shortly after replacing the battery for the first time I had no end of problems with the battery dying after a few rides / weeks ... and that was before the overnight temperature dropped below 5c.

    Even if the temperature outside was -10c (or lower) ... the fact I've used bikes in those temperatures with ant+ speed/cadence sensors using exactly the same batteries without any issues points to blaming the internal resistance of the battery being affected by the cold being a lot of rubbish aimed at fobbing folk off - and making them sound like they know what they're talking about.

    I tried the replacement "o-ring" / battery compartment door as well ... didn't really look like a different design, and the o-ring looked the same except it was red instead of green.

    I suspect it's maybe something in the electronics that doesn't like the cold temperatures maybe.

    I got lucky in that I sent mine back to Wiggle for a replacement / repair with 2 weeks to spare before the warranty ran out. They were stopping selling them at that point, probably because of all the issues, so they offered me a replacement ... only to realise that they didn't have my crank length in stock ... so I accepted their offer a full refund. Kudos to Wiggle for that, a full refund after using it for almost 1 year (6months of which were issue free).
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  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    To be fair to Stages I have just had a no quibble at all new replacement turned round in 3 days door to door.
    It shouldn't have to be like that, but with customer service of that magnitude I am at least prepared to give the new one a try..why? Because I like the simple design..just hope it works better than the dud that went back!!
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    I suspect that the silent majority think that it is a great product backed up with great customer service.
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • hellfire15
    hellfire15 Posts: 19
    Just had my gen 2 replaced by saddleback going to wait till spring before it goes back on bike, I purchased agen 2 second hand which has been running for three weeks whilst in the shed. I had a yellow battery showing then a few days later green again. I do get drop outs which I never got on my other stages meter.
    Trouble is I like the design just wish they would sort these battery issues out. Saddleback told me it's a moisture issue whilst mine is in the shed it has a cloth wrapped around the crank as I can see why moisture might be an issue as my shed in winter always has some moisture in there because it's not complety water tight .
  • hellfire15
    hellfire15 Posts: 19
    Update checked my stages today still showing full battery and I have had a mixture of zero temps and damp conditions in the shed so far so good certainly lasted better than my other replaced gen 2 meter.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    I still point some blame to that shoite protocol that is Bluetooth running all the time unnecessarily.. no one is going to convince me that BT is not the ultimate in battery sucking.... do other PMs run it constantly? My Vectors dont and I havent changed the batteries on those in 6 months.
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    Pretty much all non-Garmin power meters run BTLE & ANT+ concurrently (my 4iiii runs for at least 120 hours of activity, works when it rains & when it's cold) - the only reason Vectors don't is because until the Fēnix 5/5s/5x Garmin eschewed BTLE sensors.

    The Stages issues appear to be far more fundamental - poor weather sealing of the battery door, poor performance of the antenna, poor cold weather performance, ...
  • PK1
    PK1 Posts: 193
    Ha !

    Just contacted stages regarding low battery warnings and got this reply

    "Unfortunately we do not know why the Garmin is sending this message even though the battery is completely full."

    WTF
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    PK1 wrote:
    Ha !

    Just contacted stages regarding low battery warnings and got this reply

    "Unfortunately we do not know why the Garmin is sending this message even though the battery is completely full."

    WTF

    When the battery wattage falls below 2.7 whatever that is.. likely to get a Garmin message pop up... a new battery registers 3.2 or 3.3 ... the Ipbike app gives you this data independently from the Garmin or the Stages app.
  • pastryboy
    pastryboy Posts: 1,385
    PK1 wrote:
    Ha !

    Just contacted stages regarding low battery warnings and got this reply

    "Unfortunately we do not know why the Garmin is sending this message even though the battery is completely full."

    WTF

    Send them a screengrab from their app with the battery showing red.
  • pastryboy
    pastryboy Posts: 1,385
    Four days, I've had my warranty replacement for four days. That's eight hours of use, give or take.

    Shock horror, using Stages own battery the app is showing the battery is down already.
  • Man Of Lard
    Man Of Lard Posts: 903
    Obviously you're pedalling incorrectly :)
  • pastryboy
    pastryboy Posts: 1,385
    Left battery indoors overnight and put it back in this morning. App showed it was full. 2 hours of riding done today.

    Battery now completely dead - not picked up by the app at all.

    Re-fitted an old battery that was supposedly dead weeks ago and it was showing as full. Snapped the o-ring in the process though as it just wouldn't sit in place. :roll:

    Latest email from Stages is either store the bike indoors or we can send you some extra battery covers and o-rings so you can swap batteries round every morning. I mean, really. FFS. Five hundred quid I paid for this thing :roll:
  • lochindaal
    lochindaal Posts: 475
    I also got told my bike should be stored indoors and insisted it is replaced under warranty.

    I have asked them if this is a fault on every device and if it is suitable for use in Scotland or if there are just some that go faulty. Not had a reply.
    Tri Coaching
    https://www.h3otriathlon.com
  • john1967
    john1967 Posts: 366
    pastryboy wrote:
    Left battery indoors overnight and put it back in this morning. App showed it was full. 2 hours of riding done today.

    Battery now completely dead - not picked up by the app at all.

    Re-fitted an old battery that was supposedly dead weeks ago and it was showing as full. Snapped the o-ring in the process though as it just wouldn't sit in place. :roll:

    Latest email from Stages is either store the bike indoors or we can send you some extra battery covers and o-rings so you can swap batteries round every morning. I mean, really. FFS. Five hundred quid I paid for this thing :roll:

    seriously this is exactly word for word the same as i have just been through
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Same here. I've asked for a refund as these things aren't fit for purpose.
    More problems but still living....

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