The whatever footie that's going on (with actual fans) thread

verylonglegs

Bertrand is on loan isn't he?

tim_wand

I have always thought of my Club Arsenal as one that has/is run along very similar lines to those you ve outlined at Southampton.

I Can see now that I am wrong, that possibly Wenger has been given too much control " over all departments".
Whilst initially this was a good thing, which genuinely brought about a revolution in English football its now a model that has gone sour.

Wenger lead the way in scouting players from overseas, diet, training and unfortunately ( the only element which seems to have survived) running a club to a boards self sustaining model.

This was initially tolerable , as it allowed the club to pay off stadium debt and be back in the Black in less than a decade. But now we still pay the highest ticket prices of any fans and unlike your club, these profits ( remember the players we have sold, no disrespect but they commanded a lot more money than the Southampton departures) does not appear to have been invested back into the club through all the levels that you outlined at the Saints.

It was an interesting point you made about your Fitness and Conditioning staff. Certainly both Walcott, and Ox ( and Shaw at Manure) don't seem to have held up well ( and our injuries are notorious). However I think in the cases of Walcott his injuries are more a result of Trauma than any accumulation of Chronic injuries.

I know its a continual Arsenal Whinge, but having seen a lot of games live, I do think a lot of teams set up more physical against us (Stoke) in order to stifle our game, and this has resulted in the majority of long term injuries.

I don't think we handle the physical development of Young players well, Physically their muscles develop a lot quicker than their ligaments and Skeletons and this is always going to cause an inbalance.

I cant however explain, how players likes of Ozil and Kosceilny can play with "undetected" Injuries that only come to light when they join their international set ups.

Manc33

Once Southampton come up, thats it. We will never get rid of them now, just like last time around.

Then again I'd rather have them in the league than more London clubs. There's been seasons where there's 5 or even 6 London clubs all in the league at the same time, just greedy. I think it was one of the seasons Charlton were up.

chris_bass

Manc33 wrote:

Once Southampton come up, thats it. We will never get rid of them now, just like last time around.

Then again I'd rather have them in the league than more London clubs. There's been seasons where there's 5 or even 6 London clubs all in the league at the same time, just greedy. I think it was one of the seasons Charlton were up.

Once they come up?

You know they are not only in the premier league, they are above united and just beat them.

Stevo_666

lostboysaint wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

United are just really lucky this years premier league is very poor, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and United have all been very poor for long spells and as a result they could all still finish top 4.

My money is on United and Arsenal to finish behind Chelsea and City (in either order). I'd love Southampton to get 3rd or 4th but can't really see it.

Why can't you? Only Chelsea and Man City to play of "top sides" away before the end of the season

Which other 'top sides' are you talking about?

The battle for third and fourth will be interesting this season. Southampton, Manure, Spurs and The Ar$e are all in with a good shout. Even West Ham and Liverpool might get a sniff

pinno

Stevo 666 wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

United are just really lucky this years premier league is very poor, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and United have all been very poor for long spells and as a result they could all still finish top 4.

My money is on United and Arsenal to finish behind Chelsea and City (in either order). I'd love Southampton to get 3rd or 4th but can't really see it.

Why can't you? Only Chelsea and Man City to play of "top sides" away before the end of the season

Which other 'top sides' are you talking about?

The battle for third and fourth will be interesting this season. Southampton, Manure, Spurs and The Ar$e are all in with a good shout. Even West Ham and Liverpool might get a sniff

Yep, squeaky bum time.

I am so pi$$ed off at Wenger for not fielding Podolski enough. I think he is a better player than Giroud. I cannot understand it. Podolski played in the CL and scored brilliantly, okay not against particularly hard opposition but that was off the back off sitting on the bench ad nauseum.

Maybe if Arsenal don't qualify for the CL this year, it will be the beginning of the end for Wenger so maybe every cloud has a silver lining.

lostboysaint

verylonglegs wrote:

Bertrand is on loan isn't he?

Yes, see my previous posts. With an option to buy at any time (which is currently being discussed at the moment).


Tim,

There's no doubt Arsene Wenger changed the face of English football with regard to a lot of the things that you mentioned. Even Alex Ferguson says so! However, the teams that he won truck loads with were set up very differently to the teams that he's putting out now and that, together with the results and lack of trophies (one FA Cup) suggests that whilst the rest of football has moved on he has gone very much his own way. I'm not going to get into the usual media slagging of the defence/keeper/holding MF situation because it's a bit "fish in a barrel" but stuff like the injury situation he just can't turn the blind eye too that he does. I'm afraid I don't agree with you about the "physical" nature of other teams against you, particularly because a lot of your injuries aren't game related, they come off the training ground. There is something fundamental about either the infrastructure or the methods of the training and conditioning that means that the Arsenal players just aren't as well prepared as many other teams. Again, our training ground has five different playing surfaces to replicate the five different types of pitch used by teams in the PL - this means our players bodies are used to the whatever surface they're playing a match on as they've been training on it all week - they are used to the resistance of the sub-surface, the grab (or not) of the strands of grass as they turn etc.etc. As dear old Clive Woodward and Dave Brailsford say - it's all about marginal gains! (And yes, we do take individual players mattresses and pillows to the hotels we stay in before an away game so that they get the same sleep comfort!).

I'm sure a number of the PL clubs have similar set ups (having been to Chelsea and Tottenham (old and new) I have a good idea of what they have but I can tell you that a fair number of them don't.

tim_wand

I cant honestly see Arsenal being behind any one in terms of fitness and conditioning of players ( I know our injury record would suggest different) and I ve never been to London Colney or seen our training facilities.

I cant believe a coach of Wenger's fastidiousness would not be at the cutting edge on all this. And Lewin was our first team physio for 22 years at the same time as being England physio, so he must have been exposed to some of the best practice in the game.

I would imagine Wenger has replicated most of what was done at Clarefontaine with the French National squads which were successful in late 90's and early 00's.

I cant remember too many of the Invincibles being as injury prone as this lot, and I still believe it is to do with the style of play and the players. If you compare our squad to that of Chelsea or Man City, we are typically 3 inches shorter and over a stone lighter, especially in defence and Midfield.

If there is something habitually wrong at Arsenal in our training or facilities, I think too much is riding on it for it to have gone undetected and rectified for so long. I really do think we are just incredibly unlucky.

But when a manager is willing to go into a season with Only 6 recognisable first team defenders, and two are new to the club , of which one is played out of position and only 19 years old, then you are asking for trouble and that has to be down to the manager.

I Know we are not the only club , were if the opposition cant out play us they will out muscle us, But I believe at Arsenal we have whinged about it for so long, that clubs amplify it against us to get into our Psyche. We've ( or rather Wenger) have made a rod for our backs.

Manc33

When Man United beat Arsenal 2-4 at Highbury (even John O Shea scored!) Wenger said Manchester United "did not play with the right spirit". :roll:

It sounds to me like any team that plays Arsenal "isn't playing with the right spirit" unless they let Arsenal win.

Wenger is consistent - but thats the problem, Arsenal just don't win anything and if he is there, will probably continue not to win anything. He is like David Moyes was at Everton, not good enough to win anything, not bad enough to sack.

Stevo_666

Manc33 wrote:

Wenger is consistent - but thats the problem, Arsenal just don't win anything and if he is there, will probably continue not to win anything. He is like David Moyes was at Everton, not good enough to win anything, not bad enough to sack.

Put a sock in it will you - several hundred thousand Chelsea fans want Wenger to stay

tim_wand

Put a sock in it will you - several hundred thousand Chelsea fans want Wenger to stay

Give over are there only several hundred thousand 9-14 year olds in the home counties?

Stevo_666

tim wand wrote:

Put a sock in it will you - several hundred thousand Chelsea fans want Wenger to stay

Give over are there only several hundred thousand 9-14 year olds in the home counties?

Not sure, but its normal for kids to support a successful team

lostboysaint

Why the f**k did I write anything about how few injuries we've had? D'oh!

ballysmate

Stevo 666 wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Put a sock in it will you - several hundred thousand Chelsea fans want Wenger to stay

Give over are there only several hundred thousand 9-14 year olds in the home counties?

Not sure, but its normal for kids to support a successful team

That's why we have so many Manure fans. These impressionable kids grow up to become complete w@nkers.

Manc33

I pretty much don't complain about Chelsea though, even though there was that initial cash injection etc, if they have Mourinho there, that's why I can't complain about how good they are. At least at times in Chelsea we can see a team playing almost "robotic" football, even if boring.

I will always complain about Liverpool first, then Man City, then Arsenal but I like the way they play, or did when they had Bergkamp, they were the best team to watch for a time. They shot themselves in the foot flogging RVP to us. If he had had the first season with us with Arsenal they would have done miles better. We kinda used him for a year while he still had it in him lol. Arsenal/Wenger couldn't have got out of him what Man United/Fergie got out of him.





Predictions:
Leicester 2 Stoke 1
Burnley 1 Crystal Palace 0
Aston Villa 1 Liverpool 1
Tottenham 2 Sunderland 0
Swansea 2 Chelsea 2
QPR 1 Man Utd 3
Newcastle 1 Southampton 1
West Ham 3 Hull 1
Man City 3 Arsenal 2
Everton 3 West Brom 0

Stevo_666

I need to nominate my small unfashionable club to support this weekend. Soooo....up The Ar$e

pinno

I'll buy me a bottle of misery hooch from the offy.

Stevo_666

Nah, I think this could be Arsene's big weekend.

pinno

Nothing like positive thinking. How long have you been staring at that goat?

Stevo_666

Yep, just trying to cheer you up.

If that stats are anything to go by it'll be worth watching:
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/stat-attack-expect-fireworks-manchester-180309368.html

city_boy

Stevo 666 wrote:

I need to nominate my small unfashionable club to support this weekend. Soooo....up The Ar$e

At least on he 31st you won't have too much thinking as to which small unfashionable club to support. It'll be by default

tim_wand

They shot themselves in the foot flogging RVP to us. If he had had the first season with us with Arsenal they would have done miles better. We kinda used him for a year while he still had it in him lol. Arsenal/Wenger couldn't have got out of him what Man United/Fergie got out of him.

You do talk some Pony Manc33. RVP scored 37 Goals in his final season at Arsenal, it was the only season he was fully fit. We sold a player who didn't want to stay who would have been a free agent in 10 months for £24 million .

Wenger bought RVP from Feyonoord for £2,75 million , where he was a trouble maker ( if somewhat talented), to say The great messiah Fergie managed him better than Wenger could of, is rubbish. You just brought a striker when he hit his peak, after one good season following several of injury.

How are you going to assess LVG management of Falco, Another croc striker who your paying top dollar too?

RVP scored just as many goal in less appearances under Moyes. So does that make Moyes the best man manager out of the lot of them?

Stevo_666

Welcome back CB, where have you been hiding?

However I have to tell you that people have been talking behind your back while you've been away

lostboysaint wrote:

I'd like to think that we'll never be arrogant having been where we've been and come back from there (it was noticeable for the first time at SMS this season that the City fans have now turned into obnoxious, arrogant arses rather than the great bunch they used to be). And I would be happy for anyone to give me a slap and remind me where we've been if ever I get like that!

Stevo_666

Boring, boring Chelsea, parking the bus away from home and playing robotic football

Absolutely no pressure on City tomorrow

Manc33

Queens Park Raisins

Stevo_666

Southampton were lucky - that was one of the most blatant hand balls I've seen in a long time and the ref was in a good position but still didn't give Newcastle the penalty.

cornerblock

Manc33 wrote:

At least at times in Chelsea we can see a team playing almost "robotic" football, even if boring.

I do enjoy your insightful take on football. Please keep it up, it's nearly as pointless as your predictions.

city_boy

Not looking forward to today's game. The Gunners always seem to get themselves 'up' for games against City as opposed to rolling over and having their belly tickled by Jose

Sanchez is some player and we'll need to be on our toes where he's concerned. Should be a good game to watch and there shouldn't be too much in the way of bus parking!!

Come on City!!

tim_wand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8YRA-GVufI

That is all!!!!!!!!!!

city_boy

Always had a bad feeling about today

Think the Gunners have just helped Chelski to the title! Ironically it was Chelsea's performance at City last season that showed the way to beat us with stifling, defensive tactics and we haven't managed to come up with a way to combat those tactics so far!