Planet X Kaffenback

antonyfromoz

Is there anyone who has ridden both the Kaffenback 2 tiagra and the 2014 cdf? I am in the early stages of considering getting one of these for winter commuting and general riding (or possibly a CX bike...) and it would be good if anyone has any comments that might help me.

Cheers!

EKE_38BPM

I had a good look at the CDF but went for the Kaffenback, mainly because I wanted Tiagra over Sora.
I haven't researched the Hayes disc brakes so can't comment on them but I chose the Kaffenback over many other options because of the good reviews the BB7s get.

I only sat on the CDF because the shop only had a bike which was way too small so any test ride would have been pretty pointless but I think the Kaffenback is more bike for less money and I liked how it felt when I went for the test ride.

Consider the Revolution Cross Pro.
Aluminium frame, carbon forks, Tiagra, BB5 and a nice ride. 99p more than the CDF

EKE_38BPM

Got it.

Pros:
Probably the first drop bar bike I've had as an adult that fits me properly. Mrs EKE is so used to seeing me on a bike which is too big for me that she says it looks too small.
I've got to get used to it, but I'm liking Tiagra.
That new bike feel. If you saw the state of my old bike you'd understand the strength of my feeling for this one.

Cons:
I expect there is a bedding in period like with new car brakes, but the discs are not yet feeling like anything special. This will probably be very different in the wet.
Its a good thing the the reflective decals were not the main reason I bought it. I put it in front of my car and turned the headlights on and could barely see any increased reflectivity from them. Possibly a bit of a gimmick.

I'm using it for work tomorrow, so I'll see how it feels after 20 or so miles.

veronese68

I read something about bedding the brakes in. Basically you have to get it up to speed then brake quite hard with one brake until almost to a stop, and repeat repeatedly, after a few of those you will feel the brake improve quite dramatically. Then do the other one. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, the bike rather than the bedding in.

redvee

Veronese68 wrote:

I read something about bedding the brakes in. Basically you have to get it up to speed then brake quite hard with one brake until almost to a stop, and repeat repeatedly, after a few of those you will feel the brake improve quite dramatically. Then do the other one. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, the bike rather than the bedding in.

Something like 15 - 20 times to get the brakes bedded in fully.

antonyfromoz

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I had a good look at the CDF but went for the Kaffenback, mainly because I wanted Tiagra over Sora.
I haven't researched the Hayes disc brakes so can't comment on them but I chose the Kaffenback over many other options because of the good reviews the BB7s get.

I only sat on the CDF because the shop only had a bike which was way too small so any test ride would have been pretty pointless but I think the Kaffenback is more bike for less money and I liked how it felt when I went for the test ride.

Consider the Revolution Cross Pro.
Aluminium frame, carbon forks, Tiagra, BB5 and a nice ride. 99p more than the CDF

Thank you for this reply. I have been thinking that an alloy cyclocross type bike might also be an option, for example i like the look of the Kona Jake in orange or the cannondale caadx (although both of these are more expensive) but I am not sure of the advantages of getting steel or alloy for a bike of this type. The obvious advantage that springs to mind is weight, and every review I have read regarding bikes like the Kaffenback and the CDF (and even the Croix de Fer, which is lighter) make mention several times of the weight of the bike and how this has such a negative effect on performance, but with a lot of the alloy cyclocross/commuter bikes the weight seems to be pretty much the same as the steel bikes. The Boardman comp cx bike is meant to be 11.5 kilos which makes it heavier than the Kaffenback or the CDF - and i picked up a Norco Threshold at Evans last Friday and it was definitely heavier than the Croix de Fer which was there too. Edinburgh cycles list the weight of the Revolution cross as being 11.82 kilos which means it is heavier than any of the steel bikes i am looking at...

EKE_38BPM

FYI My Kaffenback weighs in at 11.38kg inc M324 pedals, Selle Italia Flite Gel Flow saddle and Specialized Rib water bottle cage. Its a 58cm.

Off to work now.

BelgianBeerGeek

antonyfromoz wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I had a good look at the CDF but went for the Kaffenback, mainly because I wanted Tiagra over Sora.
I haven't researched the Hayes disc brakes so can't comment on them but I chose the Kaffenback over many other options because of the good reviews the BB7s get.

I only sat on the CDF because the shop only had a bike which was way too small so any test ride would have been pretty pointless but I think the Kaffenback is more bike for less money and I liked how it felt when I went for the test ride.

Consider the Revolution Cross Pro.
Aluminium frame, carbon forks, Tiagra, BB5 and a nice ride. 99p more than the CDF

Thank you for this reply. I have been thinking that an alloy cyclocross type bike might also be an option, for example i like the look of the Kona Jake in orange or the cannondale caadx (although both of these are more expensive) but I am not sure of the advantages of getting steel or alloy for a bike of this type. The obvious advantage that springs to mind is weight, and every review I have read regarding bikes like the Kaffenback and the CDF (and even the Croix de Fer, which is lighter) make mention several times of the weight of the bike and how this has such a negative effect on performance, but with a lot of the alloy cyclocross/commuter bikes the weight seems to be pretty much the same as the steel bikes. The Boardman comp cx bike is meant to be 11.5 kilos which makes it heavier than the Kaffenback or the CDF - and i picked up a Norco Threshold at Evans last Friday and it was definitely heavier than the Croix de Fer which was there too. Edinburgh cycles list the weight of the Revolution cross as being 11.82 kilos which means it is heavier than any of the steel bikes i am looking at...

I think a lot of reviews mention the weight because of the "weight-weenie" mentality of those doing the reviews. If you had just ridden the latest pro-level road bike, these bikes are heavy in comparison. I bought the Pinnacle from Evans for winter riding/commuting/trails etc. It's billed as a crosser, but I wouldn't like to shoulder it in a race. But then I don't race. It's sturdy, takes some abuse (and my almost total lack of maintenance :oops: ) and for what I need it for it's pretty good.
I am considering using it as a donor bike for a Kaffenback frame and fork next year, though.

veronese68

I tried a Pinnacle and a Croix de Fer before settling on my Pro6. The Pinnacle felt lighter when I lifted it, but the Croix de Fer felt much livelier to ride. I've not tried a Kaffenback so can't comment. The Pro6 was about 9.5kg when I weighed it as I recall. A bit more now with guards fitted for winter commuting duties.

indyp

I'm hoping to have mine finished this weekend if everything goes smoothly, which it should do. I have all the cables to do, put chain on and lube, mudguards, shifters, bars, bar tape plus seat post & saddle to fit. Also, the steerer to cut plus there's probably a job or two I've missed! It'll then be adjust everything and out for a ride

godders1

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Cons:
I expect there is a bedding in period like with new car brakes, but the discs are not yet feeling like anything special. This will probably be very different in the wet.

As mentioned the pads need breaking in anyway but when I got my Pompetamine On One/Planet X hadn't done a great job of setting up the BB7s (I could easily pull the Versa brake levers until they were touching the bars). I needed to re-do them (i.e. re-align calipers and clamp cables) even after the pads had settled.

There is a definite knack to setting up BB7s, the manual says that once you've dialled the pads all the way in to clamp the rotor (in order to align the caliper) just pull the cable hand taught before tightening but I find you get a load of lever travel doing it this way. I now align the pads, then back them out a bit, push the actuator arm up a few mm and then clamp the cable (then dial in the pads).

I assume the brake gets more efficient at pulling cable the more the actuator arm travels so giving it a bit of a head start seems to vastly improves things.

veronese68

I followed a few You Tube videos for instructions on setting them up. There was the Volagi one and a couple of others. Not difficult and may be worth taking the time to re-do them as it doesn't take long to do and does make quite a difference if done right.

EKE_38BPM

First day of the new workhorse and I'm happy.

The BB7s are bedding in nicely but the front is starting to squeal a bit. I don't need a bell now.
It isn't a CX bike. The rear brake cable and cable guides are EXACTLY where I shoulder a bike.
I've been rolling on 23mm Gatorskins for almost a decade so the 28mm Gatorskins feel like the beginning of a p*ncture. I don't think I'll want to (or will be able to) change to narrower rubber, it just means when I ride something sportier it will feel that much livlier.
I've gone from an 8 speed Sora triple to a 10 speed Tiagra double, so 4 less gears, but it feels like more.

I was riding with a 5kg rucksack for most of the ~20 miles I did today, so no real comment on the sportiness of the frame etc. It was bought as a workhorse and I think it will do that job very well.

veronese68

Noise of brakes varies. Very noisy for a few hundred miles. Now only noisy when wet, but still work well. I've got some organic pads to try next, supposedly quieter.

redvee

EKE_38BPM wrote:

First day of the new workhorse and I'm happy.

The BB7s are bedding in nicely but the front is starting to squeal a bit.

Check the calliper mount bolts, my front BB7 howled till I tightened them up.

night_porter

I have ridden my Kaff2 for over 1,000 miles and yes the brakes did squeal in the wet to begin with but that was only once or twice and the noise has gone, the brakes are really sharp now and I am very happy.

leodis75

Sent my Kaff back and got a refund, not impressed with the BB7's and it was like riding a tank in traffic also arrive with faults and a poor set up.

EKE_38BPM

leodis75 wrote:

Sent my Kaff back and got a refund, not impressed with the BB7's and it was like riding a tank in traffic also arrive with faults and a poor set up.

If I compare it to motor vehicles, its a van, not a sports car. Today I've done Dalston to Enfield to Brixton and back to Dalston (35 to 40 miles ) and it feels OK in traffic. Are you comparing a cart horse to a race horse?

So far I've done less than 100 miles and the brakes are starting to bed in and the difference between the rim brakes I've used (Sora) is almost startling. They started off better and are getting better every ride. Not ridden in the rain yet but I'm looking forward to it to see how they fare.

I'm not saying its perfect, but it is doing the job for me (so far).
Looking at dynamo lighting again.

rubertoe

Just as a compare, went out on a club run on Sunday on my kaff, put in 50 miles and had no issue with pace. In fact I was climbing with the front group.

At my weight a kilo or two of extra bike is going to make FA difference.

I'm the motor innit.

haywire

Had mine a couple of weeks now - it's pretty filthy now. I put Tortec guards and a Tortec transalp rack on, which didn't turn out to be the behemoth I feared.

The frame is a small, and I've experienced massive toe overlap. Since tweaking my cleats, that's been reduced to merely 'considerable'.

Having come from a beefy tourer, it doesn't seem that sluggish, and I was surprised how comfortable I found it by comparison.

EKE_38BPM

Yay! We have our first Kaffenback picture. I hope for Haywire's sake that NapD doesn't see it though. It wouldn't meet his exacting standards (facing the wrong way, valves not at 12 o'clock, in the wrong gear, cranks not at 3 and 9 o'clock etc).

I notice you have a different wheelset to me. I have the On-One Reet'ard Trail Wheelset (the only option at time of purchase). Did you have different options or are yours a replacement/upgrade?

I've never had mudguards on a roadbike. My Kaff is a large frame and I'm concerned about toeverlap. Should I be?

My latest dynamo hub idea (the idea of a dynamo hub is in my head and I can't shake it):
Buy a disc dyno hub and build it into a wheel for the Kaff. Lights as well, natch.
Buy two 32 hole disc specific rims. Use the Kaff's old front hub for the front wheel build and another disc front hub I have for the rear wheel, but with a sprocket bolted to the rotor mounts for my fixie (the wheelset was nicked and I haven't replaced it yet). Fixies don't need rear brakes, so that is why I say two disc specific rims.
Buy a disc fork and calipers for my fixie.
Buy a hell of a lot of spokes, nipples etc.

Pros:
Dyno hub for the Kaff.
Get my fixie back on the road.
I'd create a dixie (disc fixie).
I'd have to learn how to build a wheel. Well, three wheels. All different.

Cons:
Cost. Between me and the Mrs, we've spent around £2.5k on bikes and bike bits in the last few months. This on top of a wedding and an expensive honeymoon less than 6 months ago.
I'd have to learn how to build a wheel. Well, three wheels. All different (one with a dynomo hub, one 'normal' disc and one using a front disc hub as a rear fixed hub, so dished). And I don't have the tools.

redvee

This was how mine came out of the 'factory'

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uivdejyrqleu9vv/IMAG0179.jpg

The only changes since then have been a longer stem, 120mm, and a pair of £85 XT CL/Alex ZX24 wheels opposed to the £140 Deore/CXP22 36 wheels I built for the bike. The Deore wheels are now on top of the kitchen cupboard shod with Specialized Houffalize 32c tyres

haywire

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Yay! We have our first Kaffenback picture. I hope for Haywire's sake that NapD doesn't see it though. It wouldn't meet his exacting standards (facing the wrong way, valves not at 12 o'clock, in the wrong gear, cranks not at 3 and 9 o'clock etc).

I realised that shortly after I posted. But can the rules be adjusted for the purposes of displaying shiny disc rotors?

I notice you have a different wheelset to me. I have the On-One Reet'ard Trail Wheelset (the only option at time of purchase). Did you have different options or are yours a replacement/upgrade?

They are Mach 1 rims (me neither) on deore hubs. Didn't have the reet'ard option when I ordered.

I've never had mudguards on a roadbike. My Kaff is a large frame and I'm concerned about toeverlap. Should I be?

Think it's only us shortarses unless you have huge clown feet and badly fitted 'guards

EKE_38BPM

haywire wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Yay! We have our first Kaffenback picture. I hope for Haywire's sake that NapD doesn't see it though. It wouldn't meet his exacting standards (facing the wrong way, valves not at 12 o'clock, in the wrong gear, cranks not at 3 and 9 o'clock etc).

I realised that shortly after I posted. But can the rules be adjusted for the purposes of displaying shiny disc rotors?

I notice you have a different wheelset to me. I have the On-One Reet'ard Trail Wheelset (the only option at time of purchase). Did you have different options or are yours a replacement/upgrade?

They are Mach 1 rims (me neither) on deore hubs. Didn't have the reet'ard option when I ordered.

I've never had mudguards on a roadbike. My Kaff is a large frame and I'm concerned about toeverlap. Should I be?

Think it's only us shortarses unless you have huge clown feet and badly fitted 'guards

I think there should be a 'disc dispensation' allowing pics of shiny rotors!
I guess Planet X source aggressively priced wheelsets to keep the overall cost of the bike down. Prices change so they change wheelsets.
Thinking about getting mudguards and you have reassured me somewhat.

rubertoe

No toe overlap on mine either, I have the same tortec guards as Haywire (large frame).

I also have a different set of wheels (Shimino MT - 55), but this is the one thing that I will look to upgrade.

leodis75

I got the shimano wh rx05 on mine, soon after they changed to the On One ones.

I got some tow overlap on my Small, I was at the upper limit though and I found it unpleasant in traffic commuting when filtering and waving, maybe a medium would have been better but again sizing was on PX advice.

EKE_38BPM

I went out of my way to do some light CXing today. Riding through deep mud down a steep hill was great fun as was knowing that the brakes will still work and I'm not grinding my rims to nothing.

Having woefully inappropriate tyres (28mm Gatorskins) just made it more fun!

indyp

Finally got mine on the road this week, still waiting for mudguards to arrive from cyclexpress (would hesitate before using them again), also steerer left a bit long til I get final position, panniers are also temp until I get a decent bag. It's my first complete build and I'm pretty chuffed with how it's turned out, and most importantly rides superb

haywire

So you've committed the same bike-photography sins as me. Looks good - what wheels are they?

rubertoe

haywire wrote:

So you've committed the same bike-photography sins as me. Looks good - what wheels are they?

If i am not mistaken, they are the same wheels run by most other commuters, H Plus Sons Archtype rims on novatech hubs Hand built by Ugo.