The way to behave

kajjal

hatch87 wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

Very simple,

The A road was busy on both sides and also had poor visibility due to winding round various corners. They just stayed there affectively blocking one side of the road winding up a long queue of other road users behind them. This is very arrogant behaviour and in this case very dangerous. We were on the way to do some mountain biking and could not believe what they were up to , including one of them shaking his fists at car drivers who beeped their horns at them.

Your suggestion of doing similar to stop cars over taking you is equally bizare , there are enough risks cycling on roads without creating your own

So at what point could you of over taken the cyclists even if they were single file? Even then you would have had to cross the white line on a blind corner with busy traffic.

Is your shovel big enough?

As soon as they went single file after the traffic over took them easily enough including caravans. No idea why you are trying to pick fault and defend very arrogant cyclists who give the rest of us a bad name.

Have you been to Wales down A Road's recently

hatch87

ah, your Welsh, that explains a lot

kajjal

hatch87 wrote:

ah, your Welsh, that explains a lot

hatch87 wrote:

ah, your Welsh, that explains a lot

Do you live under a bridge

hatch87

Kajjal wrote:

hatch87 wrote:

ah, your Welsh, that explains a lot

Do you live under a bridge

Yes, I find it easier to live there to avoid the toll

adr82

hatch87 wrote:

In the interest of fairness, I looked on the .gov site and it does state 'never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends'
Might as well fuel the fire

https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-5 ... w-59-to-71

Hmm well actually what it says there is you should do these things. Compare that to some of the other rules where they specifically use "MUST" and "MUST NOT", often accompanied by citing the relevant laws. The stuff about riding abreast reads like a set of guidelines rather than rules.

Also, "when riding round bends"??? That's got to be a joke. Not to mention that it's usually unsafe for vehicles to overtake even a single cyclist around a corner, not that it ever stops people doing it. Or even the one about not cycling close behind another vehicle... you know what happens if you do that? Someone will overtake and fill the gap you leave, and you'll end up right behind them.

hatch87

adr82 wrote:

hatch87 wrote:

In the interest of fairness, I looked on the .gov site and it does state 'never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends'
Might as well fuel the fire

https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-5 ... w-59-to-71

Hmm well actually what it says there is you should do these things. Compare that to some of the other rules where they specifically use "MUST" and "MUST NOT", often accompanied by citing the relevant laws. The stuff about riding abreast reads like a set of guidelines rather than rules.

Also, "when riding round bends"??? That's got to be a joke. Not to mention that it's usually unsafe for vehicles to overtake even a single cyclist around a corner, not that it ever stops people doing it. Or even the one about not cycling close behind another vehicle... you know what happens if you do that? Someone will overtake and fill the gap you leave, and you'll end up right behind them.

No different to the motorway, if you don't tailgate, some nob will just undertake you and fill the gap, those 2 seconds are very important to some.

mfin

adr82 wrote:

Also, "when riding round bends"??? That's got to be a joke. Not to mention that it's usually unsafe for vehicles to overtake even a single cyclist around a corner, not that it ever stops people doing it. Or even the one about not cycling close behind another vehicle... you know what happens if you do that? Someone will overtake and fill the gap you leave, and you'll end up right behind them.

It's to do with things coming round the corner towards you taking up too much road, it's for your safety not to provide overtaking opportunities for those behind. It is worth noting that effectively it is an instruction to not take up more road than you need.

mfin

There is an argument to say that riding two abreast when vehicles need to overtake makes for more room - It is a f*****g stupid argument.

In my view A-road drivers are often too slow and unassertive, everybody should use the roads in such a fashion that allows for the fact that other road users might actually be trying to get from A to B without stopping off for tea and p1ssing scones every few miles. Cyclists acting like d1cks holding people up by riding two-abreast provide just another example of inconsiderate road use.

adr82

mfin wrote:

It's to do with things coming round the corner towards you taking up too much road, it's for your safety not to provide overtaking opportunities for those behind. It is worth noting that effectively it is an instruction to not take up more road than you need.

Ignoring the fact that obeying the "when riding around bends" part would mean you effectively couldn't ride abreast at all on most roads (what even constitutes a "bend", is there a specific level of curvature required?), two cyclists riding abreast still take up less space than a car or other vehicle would. If someone coming around a corner is taking up enough road to hit one or both cyclists then they're clearly driving dangerously and there's nothing you can do to stop that. And regardless of what the intention is, it will be used as an overtaking opportunity by those behind. I've seen it happen in front of me dozens and dozens of times (while riding on my own). I often ride round blind corners in the middle of the lane (on 2 lane roads) specifically to discourage people trying to overtake, because if they're on my right mid-overtake and realise they're about to hit something head on then they're going to frantically turn left and smash me into a hedge or wall or ditch or fence. No thanks.

mfin wrote:

There is an argument to say that riding two abreast when vehicles need to overtake makes for more room - It is a f*****g stupid argument.

In my view A-road drivers are often too slow and unassertive, everybody should use the roads in such a fashion that allows for the fact that other road users might actually be trying to get from A to B without stopping off for tea and p1ssing scones every few miles. Cyclists acting like d1cks holding people up by riding two-abreast provide just another example of inconsiderate road use.

Oooh, someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning... anyway isn't the argument that if you have people riding abreast it might actually force drivers to pass with an appropriate amount of space, rather than zooming by 3 inches away without even bothering to pull out of their lane at all?

mfin

adr82 wrote:

If someone coming around a corner is taking up enough road to hit one or both cyclists then they're clearly driving dangerously and there's nothing you can do to stop that.

Well, if they're coming round the corner taking up enough road to hit two cyclists that are riding abreast but not two in single file then there is something you can do to avoid that happening, I can't for the life of me think what it is. Oh yeah! It's don't ride round bends like that two abreast.

adr82 wrote:

Oooh, someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning... anyway isn't the argument that if you have people riding abreast it might actually force drivers to pass with an appropriate amount of space, rather than zooming by 3 inches away without even bothering to pull out of their lane at all?

naa, in a great mood! ...yes, that is the argument, to p1ss off every car that comes up behind you because it ensures they drive round you with plenty of space. They don't in practice, you get just as many getting close and some deliberately just to try to teach you a lesson for riding like the end of a bell. The best thing to do is to ride slightly more out from the kerb until you hear a car coming then tuck in for them if you're on your own, or to be riding two abreast and single out in plenty of time, everytime for them.

I think every road user should give the other road users respect, that doesn't include cyclists trying to police road users, riding two abreast when you know cars are overtaking on all but the very widest, clear and quiet roads is dangerous, rude, and idiotic.

mfin

Gozzy wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's not the same at all, as most people in Football tops are supporters. If you were playing five-a-side and everybody is knocking about and someone turns up in full look-a-likey Lionel Messi gear, he'd look like a bit of a plonker just like cyslists do if they are out in full team kit.... it's not a problem though, in fact it gives other cyclists something to laugh at.

Ok, so you look a bit of a dick and someone might laugh.

Does that mean people need to get arsey over whether or not you're in a team or how good a rider you are?
I mean really? Why would you care?

To your first point, yes I agree, you look a bit of a dick and someone might laugh.

To your second point see your first point, that's all there is to it.

adr82

mfin wrote:

adr82 wrote:

If someone coming around a corner is taking up enough road to hit one or both cyclists then they're clearly driving dangerously and there's nothing you can do to stop that.

Well, if they're coming round the corner taking up enough road to hit two cyclists that are riding abreast but not two in single file then there is something you can do to avoid that happening, I can't for the life of me think what it is. Oh yeah! It's don't ride round bends like that two abreast.

Yes, obviously that could happen if they're an incredibly bad driver (I'm assuming we're talking about a typical 2 lane road here, not a narrow country lane or something). The point is that you shouldn't need to do this just in case this incredibly bad driver is approaching in the other direction. It's not even specifically a problem for cyclists because if you're far enough over to hit the outer cyclist, you're definitely far enough over to hit a car as well, and there's far more chance that that is what you're going to hit all else being equal. It's also virtually irrelevant because as I said it's totally infeasible to expect people to constantly switch between riding abreast and riding single file every time they come to a corner.

mfin wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Oooh, someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning... anyway isn't the argument that if you have people riding abreast it might actually force drivers to pass with an appropriate amount of space, rather than zooming by 3 inches away without even bothering to pull out of their lane at all?

naa, in a great mood! ...yes, that is the argument, to p1ss off every car that comes up behind you because it ensures they drive round you with plenty of space. They don't in practice, you get just as many getting close and some deliberately just to try to teach you a lesson for riding like the end of a bell. The best thing to do is to ride slightly more out from the kerb until you hear a car coming then tuck in for them if you're on your own, or to be riding two abreast and single out in plenty of time, everytime for them.

I think every road user should give the other road users respect, that doesn't include cyclists trying to police road users, riding two abreast when you know cars are overtaking on all but the very widest, clear and quiet roads is dangerous, rude, and idiotic.

If it pisses off the cars behind that's their problem, isn't it? Seems like getting in a car tends to inflame the level of impatience to a huge degree in most people, to the extent that they'll take potentially lethal risks to save themselves a few illusory seconds. Cyclists just become an easy target for the irrational rage of these people. Overtaking two cyclists riding abreast is hardly any more difficult or hazardous than having to overtake something like a tractor plodding along at 20mph, it's just because people love to whine about cyclists that we hear so much more about it. I'm all for having greater respect and so forth on the roads, but it has to be a 2 way street (hahahaha.... sorry)

mfin

adr82 wrote:

If it pisses off the cars behind that's their problem, isn't it?

Well, until they get enraged and then cut you up and cause you danger, then it becomes your problem too... but if they don't and it just p1sses them off and you're happy p1ssing them off then great, keep up the reputation of arrogant cyclists that the rest of us pay for the prejudice towards with the cases of deliberate antagonistic driving. Antagonistic driving which the drivers might see as the equivalent of you riding two abreast at times when you shouldn't.

Mikey23

I can't see that there's very much future in having the moral high ground, being totally in the right... But dead

morstar

Mikey23 wrote:

I can't see that there's very much future in having the moral high ground, being totally in the right... But dead

This^

Can't beat a bit of blindly enforcing your rights regardless of consequences.

rpherts

Don't cycle on the Motorway (I have seen this on the M25, a cyclist riding on the hard shoulder).

When as a cyclist you overtake other cyclists, give more than 6 inches room. I am fed up of the bunches of idiots (a.k.a cycling clubs) who speed past you at a distance so close you could reach out and grab their arm. I can't hear you coming into a headwind and it is quite alarming when you suddenly appear on my right shoulder. No excuses!

Guanajuato

rpherts wrote:

When as a cyclist you overtake other cyclists, give more than 6 inches room. I am fed up of the bunches of idiots (a.k.a cycling clubs) who speed past you at a distance so close you could reach out and grab their arm. I can't hear you coming into a headwind and it is quite alarming when you suddenly appear on my right shoulder. No excuses!

Amen. At least with a car doing that, you can hear it approaching. With a group of cyclists, the first thing you know is a friendly 'Hello' right alongside (if you're lucky), which makes you jump out your skin. The same thing about leaving as much room as you would when overtaking a car also applies to cyclists overtaking other cyclists.

hatch87

rpherts wrote:

Don't cycle on the Motorway (I have seen this on the M25, a cyclist riding on the hard shoulder).

When as a cyclist you overtake other cyclists, give more than 6 inches room. I am fed up of the bunches of idiots (a.k.a cycling clubs) who speed past you at a distance so close you could reach out and grab their arm. I can't hear you coming into a headwind and it is quite alarming when you suddenly appear on my right shoulder. No excuses!

I've seen someone coming the opposite direction next to the central reservation barrier, walking it mind you. You can imagine the abuse he was getting, but he didn't seem to realize the error of his ways. :shock: :?

mile muncher

mfin wrote:

Gozzy wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's not the same at all, as most people in Football tops are supporters. If you were playing five-a-side and everybody is knocking about and someone turns up in full look-a-likey Lionel Messi gear, he'd look like a bit of a plonker just like cyslists do if they are out in full team kit.... it's not a problem though, in fact it gives other cyclists something to laugh at.

Ok, so you look a bit of a dick and someone might laugh.

Does that mean people need to get arsey over whether or not you're in a team or how good a rider you are?
I mean really? Why would you care?

To your first point, yes I agree, you look a bit of a dick and someone might laugh.

To your second point see your first point, that's all there is to it.

People can wear what they like, team kit, rainbow jerseys, whatever. Do you go on the internet and comment on what people are wearing in your local supermarket or in the high street? If you do then I think that says more about what kind of a person you are :roll: A total t**t.

Frankly I think men in lycra look ridiculous whatever the flavour of kit they wear, I still wear it as its the best kit for the job, but a bit of humilty is required. Chances are your wife/girlfriend has a good laugh at you in your kit. Face it you are dressed like some sort of MP in a weekend gimp suit, to then dare comment on what anyone else wears, anywhere, ever, is a joke. To think one type is better or more appropriate than any others is just vacuous shallow nonsense.

rickeverett

mfin wrote:

Gozzy wrote:

Do you get bothered by people wearing football team jerseys? Do you think, you can't wear that, you're not in the team nor that good a player! No, you just think they support that team. Same applies to cycling team kit.
Why people get so arsey about bike team kit I don't know.

It's not the same at all, as most people in Football tops are supporters. If you were playing five-a-side and everybody is knocking about and someone turns up in full look-a-likey Lionel Messi gear, he'd look like a bit of a plonker just like cyslists do if they are out in full team kit.... it's not a problem though, in fact it gives other cyclists something to laugh at.

Summed up perfectly!

Same goes for the walking advertisement board kit. - You really look a complete di*k. - yet they are for sale and some people buy them.

TBH Walking around in a football shirt is bad enough too.

mfin

mile muncher wrote:

mfin wrote:

Gozzy wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's not the same at all, as most people in Football tops are supporters. If you were playing five-a-side and everybody is knocking about and someone turns up in full look-a-likey Lionel Messi gear, he'd look like a bit of a plonker just like cyslists do if they are out in full team kit.... it's not a problem though, in fact it gives other cyclists something to laugh at.

Ok, so you look a bit of a dick and someone might laugh.

Does that mean people need to get arsey over whether or not you're in a team or how good a rider you are?
I mean really? Why would you care?

To your first point, yes I agree, you look a bit of a dick and someone might laugh.

To your second point see your first point, that's all there is to it.

People can wear what they like, team kit, rainbow jerseys, whatever. Do you go on the internet and comment on what people are wearing in your local supermarket or in the high street? If you do then I think that says more about what kind of a person you are :roll: A total t**t.

Frankly I think men in lycra look ridiculous whatever the flavour of kit they wear, I still wear it as its the best kit for the job, but a bit of humilty is required. Chances are your wife/girlfriend has a good laugh at you in your kit. Face it you are dressed like some sort of MP in a weekend gimp suit, to then dare comment on what anyone else wears, anywhere, ever, is a joke. To think one type is better or more appropriate than any others is just vacuous shallow nonsense.

my mate used to think Touché Turtle was called Touchy Turtle, and that's why he was always fighting. There's no point getting in a huff about what a stranger says on the internet just because their opinions are different to those of your own.

Finding what people wear to be funny and dead amusing is quite normal just in the same way that finding anything else about people entertaining is quite normal. I'm glad I do, because when I spot a decent specimen it makes me smile and I'm thankful of the free treat.

adr82

mfin wrote:

adr82 wrote:

If it pisses off the cars behind that's their problem, isn't it?

Well, until they get enraged and then cut you up and cause you danger, then it becomes your problem too... but if they don't and it just p1sses them off and you're happy p1ssing them off then great, keep up the reputation of arrogant cyclists that the rest of us pay for the prejudice towards with the cases of deliberate antagonistic driving. Antagonistic driving which the drivers might see as the equivalent of you riding two abreast at times when you shouldn't.

Enjoying yourself in this thread, aren't you? I can't control how other people react to me. I can influence it by riding sensibly, but I can't control it. 99% of my riding is done on my own, and so I know for a fact that drivers are fully capable of going from zero to massively impatient in about 0.23s if they feel you're slowing them down in any way whatsoever, regardless of how many of you there might be in front of them or how sensibly you're riding. I've seen plenty of instances of "antagonistic driving" directed against me while riding alone and not doing anything unusual or dangerous. For some people it simply does not matter what you do, and these people really just shouldn't be allowed to drive, full stop. They're dangerous to other road users and pedestrians too, not just cyclists. I also think you're really stretching to equate riding abreast with "antagonistic driving". One is a mild inconvenience, the other is a premeditated/calculated act intended to place another person in danger.

dave02

its all about wearing the right clothes for the job, if you were a rambler you would have big boots on, if you wear your bike stuff on a night out that would be weird, i would sooner see "some" females in lycra than any males but it does FEEEEEEEEEL so good when you pull it on :oops:

GiantMike

adr82 wrote:

...and so I know for a fact that drivers are fully capable of going from zero to massively impatient in about 0.23s if they feel you're slowing them down in any way whatsoever...

You need to ride faster and look better. I rarely get driver abuse (I can't remember the last time I did), but then I tend to average 20mph+ and look very cool on a bike. You need to make drivers feel in awe of your power and speed, not feel like a slow wobbly jelly is holding them up. Be a thing of beauty and you'll be treated as such. Or maybe Yorkshire drivers are more patient? Just sayin'.

adr82

GiantMike wrote:

adr82 wrote:

...and so I know for a fact that drivers are fully capable of going from zero to massively impatient in about 0.23s if they feel you're slowing them down in any way whatsoever...

You need to ride faster and look better. I rarely get driver abuse (I can't remember the last time I did), but then I tend to average 20mph+ and look very cool on a bike. You need to make drivers feel in awe of your power and speed, not feel like a slow wobbly jelly is holding them up. Be a thing of beauty and you'll be treated as such. Or maybe Yorkshire drivers are more patient? Just sayin'.

Mikey23

There is something to be said for riding with authority and confidence...

Bozman

GiantMike wrote:

adr82 wrote:

...and so I know for a fact that drivers are fully capable of going from zero to massively impatient in about 0.23s if they feel you're slowing them down in any way whatsoever...

You need to ride faster and look better. I rarely get driver abuse (I can't remember the last time I did), but then I tend to average 20mph+ and look very cool on a bike. You need to make drivers feel in awe of your power and speed, not feel like a slow wobbly jelly is holding them up. Be a thing of beauty and you'll be treated as such. Or maybe Yorkshire drivers are more patient? Just sayin'.

Fair point.

adr82

GiantMike wrote:

adr82 wrote:

...and so I know for a fact that drivers are fully capable of going from zero to massively impatient in about 0.23s if they feel you're slowing them down in any way whatsoever...

You need to ride faster and look better. I rarely get driver abuse (I can't remember the last time I did), but then I tend to average 20mph+ and look very cool on a bike. You need to make drivers feel in awe of your power and speed, not feel like a slow wobbly jelly is holding them up. Be a thing of beauty and you'll be treated as such. Or maybe Yorkshire drivers are more patient? Just sayin'.

wait... was this post supposed to be serious??? I assumed he was joking because it was just ridiculous. It doesn't matter how fast you're going someone will always want to overtake you, presumably as part of some sad little willy-waving contest in their head. They will often do this regardless of road and traffic conditions. And you really think they care how good you look? "Oh this guy has full Team Sky Rapha kit, can't get impatient with him!"? Please. Finally, unless Yorkshire is pan-flat (lol) or you are capable of riding up any hill at 20+mph (LOL), then you're going to be a "slow wobbly jelly" too at some point, aren't you?

mfin

adr82 wrote:

GiantMike wrote:

adr82 wrote:

...and so I know for a fact that drivers are fully capable of going from zero to massively impatient in about 0.23s if they feel you're slowing them down in any way whatsoever...

You need to ride faster and look better. I rarely get driver abuse (I can't remember the last time I did), but then I tend to average 20mph+ and look very cool on a bike. You need to make drivers feel in awe of your power and speed, not feel like a slow wobbly jelly is holding them up. Be a thing of beauty and you'll be treated as such. Or maybe Yorkshire drivers are more patient? Just sayin'.

wait... was this post supposed to be serious??? I assumed he was joking because it was just ridiculous. It doesn't matter how fast you're going someone will always want to overtake you, presumably as part of some sad little willy-waving contest in their head. They will often do this regardless of road and traffic conditions. And you really think they care how good you look? "Oh this guy has full Team Sky Rapha kit, can't get impatient with him!"? Please. Finally, unless Yorkshire is pan-flat (lol) or you are capable of riding up any hill at 20+mph (LOL), then you're going to be a "slow wobbly jelly" too at some point, aren't you?

Naa, some people don't do the 'slow wobbly jelly thing' the other guy mentioned, I guess because we exercise a lot I suppose. There will always be people a lot faster, I am with you there, you are correct ...and I suppose we also agree that if they are a lot faster and they are dressed up in full team kit that they tend to be be in it for a reason other than just squeezing into it to look like a dressed up berk.

Bozman

While out in the car at the weekend the wife commented on the number of over weight cyclists squeezed into Lycra. Reply - "We all start somewhere and at least they're out on the bike instead of sitting on the sofa watching Soccer Saturday."