Tesco and Asda remove fancy dress costumes

cje

DonDaddyD, I was diagnosed with panic disorder 12 years ago, have been agoraphobic at times, was once an out-patient at a renowned mental institution and currently take anti-depressants.

Now that I've got my credentials out of the way, I feel I should point out that I'm not even remotely offended by these outifts. They are simply based on famous horror film characters, and whilst the names given are a bit clumsy and crass, I don't feel that mental health patients should regard it as a slight. I certainly don't.

arran77

DonDaddyD wrote:

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

Thats a bit random and certainly not fact.
I've had a few accidents. Are you maintaining that I have been affected mentally?
It could explain my presence here though.

i. In the context of the sentence, it is a 'figure of speech'. If it were truly a 'fact' then I would have typed 'It is a fact that'.

ii. Even then it could be argued to be a fact because it is likely that if you have a physical accident you will be affected, in some way, mentally.

iii. No one can ever determine what physical accidents will impact upon a person mentally or how they will be affected or the severity of the mental illness, if any. There is, however, a link between physical trauma and subsequent mental illness: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for example.

Probably best not to use the word 'fact' then, 'in my opinion' would possibly be better.

DonDaddyD

cje wrote:

DonDaddyD, I was diagnosed with panic disorder 12 years ago, have been agoraphobic at times, was once an out-patient at a renowned mental institution and currently take anti-depressants.

Now that I've got my credentials out of the way, I feel I should point out that I'm not even remotely offended by these outifts. They are simply based on famous horror film characters, and whilst the names given are a bit clumsy and crass, I don't feel that mental health patients should regard it as a slight. I certainly don't.

And you know what, that's cool.

At the same time I've met other patients that do think its a slight - or more accurately indicative of the stigma attached to mental health.

Neither opinion is any less valid. I sit with Greg66 on this one, though on the other side of the table, I would liked to have seen opposing discussion that would challenge the pre and misconceptions over the issue.

DonDaddyD

arran77 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

Thats a bit random and certainly not fact.
I've had a few accidents. Are you maintaining that I have been affected mentally?
It could explain my presence here though.

i. In the context of the sentence, it is a 'figure of speech'. If it were truly a 'fact' then I would have typed 'It is a fact that'.

ii. Even then it could be argued to be a fact because it is likely that if you have a physical accident you will be affected, in some way, mentally.

iii. No one can ever determine what physical accidents will impact upon a person mentally or how they will be affected or the severity of the mental illness, if any. There is, however, a link between physical trauma and subsequent mental illness: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for example.

Probably best not to use the word 'fact' then, 'in my opinion' would possibly be better.

I don't disagree.

team47b

arran77 wrote:

Probably best not to use the word 'fact' then, 'in my opinion' would possibly be better.

Probably best not to use "in my opinion" this suggests that thought had been applied where as "it is my belief" which is a view and it is not necessarily the creation of the person who holds it would be more accurate.

DonDaddyD

Well at least there was 3 -5 posts of sensible discussion until the cake stop brigade degenerated things back into pathetic insults and pointless comments. I'm out.

arran77

DonDaddyD wrote:

I sit with Greg66 on this one, though on the other side of the table

:? :? :?

That's like me saying 'I sit with Hitler on his views on Jews, but on the opposite side of the table', it's not true is it, I don't sit with him at all, my views on this are completely opposing to what his were :roll:

team47b

DonDaddyD wrote:

Well at least there was 3 -5 posts of sensible discussion until the cake stop brigade degenerated things back into pathetic insults and pointless comments. I'm out.

Not a lot of the tolerance that he espouses.

sensible discussion who/where does he think he is?

I'm out, flounce. flounce

rjsterry

cje wrote:

DonDaddyD, I was diagnosed with panic disorder 12 years ago, have been agoraphobic at times, was once an out-patient at a renowned mental institution and currently take anti-depressants.

Now that I've got my credentials out of the way, I feel I should point out that I'm not even remotely offended by these outifts. They are simply based on famous horror film characters, and whilst the names given are a bit clumsy and crass, I don't feel that mental health patients should regard it as a slight. I certainly don't.

That's about the size of it, I reckon. I don't think there's anything wrong with the charity in question pulling Tesco/Asda up on it, but it didn't need to become national 'news'.

cornerblock

rjsterry wrote:

but it didn't need to become national 'news'.

Probably the best thing for the charities though as it's raised awareness and got people discussing the issue.

seanoconn

DonDaddyD wrote:

Well at least there was 3 -5 posts of sensible discussion until the cake stop brigade degenerated things back into pathetic insults and pointless comments. I'm out.

Not really Don. Opinion does seem one sided, so rather than rattle off a few cheap departing shots to those that disagree with you, stick around and continue the debate?

seanoconn

DonDaddyD wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

It wasn't the custome that was offensive, it's marketing them as "mental patient fancy dress custome" by Asda, and "Pyscho Ward, Adult Costume" by tesco. The link wasn't a suggessted link as OP stated it was direct and obivous.

Yep, this is why I said

"what the name of the costume suggests is that is a depiction of a person who receives mental health services."

The costume by itself is not offensive.

Agree with this. I don't personally find the costume or description offensive but I can see how someone receiving mental health care might.

rjsterry

Cornerblock wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

but it didn't need to become national 'news'.

Probably the best thing for the charities though as it's raised awareness and got people discussing the issue.

I dunno. I'm sure their publicity team will all have got gold stars for effort, but I can't help thinking that because it seems to some like a trivial complaint or an overreaction, that in the long term, they may damage the charity's credibility.

daviesee

DonDaddyD wrote:

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

Thats a bit random and certainly not fact.
I've had a few accidents. Are you maintaining that I have been affected mentally?
It could explain my presence here though.

i. In the context of the sentence, it is a 'figure of speech'. If it were truly a 'fact' then I would have typed 'It is a fact that'.

ii. Even then it could be argued to be a fact because it is likely that if you have a physical accident you will be affected, in some way, mentally.

iii. No one can ever determine what physical accidents will impact upon a person mentally or how they will be affected or the severity of the mental illness, if any. There is, however, a link between physical trauma and subsequent mental illness: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for example.

As you are no longer here their is no point in addressing this to you.
He does spout some utter tosh before he back tracks doesnt he?

Kieran_Burns

So Don:

You're not going argue about it, but then you do
You sit with Greg but you don't 'cos you're on the other side of the table
Apparently only people with mental health issues seem to be 'cool' to have a joke, or rather have an opinion on the joke, or joke about the opinions. Possibly, I must admit you have confused me on this point.
You've never required assistance with mental health issues but can be offended on someone else's behalf, yet those who HAVE had mental health issues can't have a joke.

You know what Don. Sometimes I genuinely enjoy your posts and you can give an oft-times completely different point of view to an issue but on occasions (like this) you really do appear to spout some complete rubbish.

cornerblock

rjsterry wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

but it didn't need to become national 'news'.

Probably the best thing for the charities though as it's raised awareness and got people discussing the issue.

I dunno. I'm sure their publicity team will all have got gold stars for effort, but I can't help thinking that because it seems to some like a trivial complaint or an overreaction, that in the long term, they may damage the charity's credibility.

I dunno either really, maybe they're just banking on the expression 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'. I can't see any long term damage to the charity's credibility though, soon this will all be forgotten about and there will be another product being sold that offends someone somewhere.

BillyMansell

rjsterry wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

but it didn't need to become national 'news'.

Probably the best thing for the charities though as it's raised awareness and got people discussing the issue.

I dunno. I'm sure their publicity team will all have got gold stars for effort, but I can't help thinking that because it seems to some like a trivial complaint or an overreaction, that in the long term, they may damage the charity's credibility.

Tackling ignorance of, and discrimination against those with mental health needs is not the preserve of a small part of the voluntary and community sector but is high on the agendas of both clinical commissioning groups and health and wellbeing boards across the country. Talking to members of my own CCGs and H&WB they are displeased that mental health continues to be portrayed in this way and as the directors of change in health and social care, housing, employment and policing see challenging such discrimination as one of their priorities.

In economic terms, mental health costs the UK economy over a third of a trillion pounds a year, which is still less than half of what's currently required to meet the full need, but a significant proportion of these costs could be negated by the attitudes to mental health changing among the general public. Linking mental health with such crude imagery causes harm in public perceptions of mental health which in turns affects lives which in turn adds to health and social care costs, creates employment and housing issues and the increases the burden of the criminal justice system.

But if people still don't see it as their problem then I hope they see no reason to complain at the amount of public money being spent on addressing the problems society causes in relation to mental health.

DonDaddyD

Sigh, OK, lets do this.

Kieran_Burns wrote:

So Don:

You're not going argue about it, but then you do

Actually you'll find that I said that I don't want to argue with you over the whole you being ignorant issue. That and my addressing the actual issue are two different things.

You sit with Greg but you don't 'cos you're on the other side of the table

This really isn't a complex one to understand if you (and others) take your head out of your arses and stop being fixated on trying to prove a nonexistant point.

Greg wrote:

"Well, I see it as an example of two large organisations rolling over in response to adverse social media reaction, rather than saying "Hold on. Back up. We don't think this is offensive, and our argument is x/y/z".

And I agree [sit] with him on this [on the same table], it would have been good if the two large organisations put their perspectives over. I however would sit on the other side of that table for that discussion. [Prick]

Apparently only people with mental health issues seem to be 'cool' to have a joke, or rather have an opinion on the joke, or joke about the opinions. Possibly, I must admit you have confused me on this point.

Where did I say this. I'm not even going to entertain this pathetic point until you can substantiate it with something other than the bollocks you have brewed up to take issue with me.

You've never required assistance with mental health issues but can be offended on someone else's behalf, yet those who HAVE had mental health issues can't have a joke.

Where did I say I was personally offended? Or that I was offended on someones else's behalf? Even if I was I would still find that drivel you THINK are jokes offensive and I would still be entitled to my opinion.

You know what Don. Sometimes I genuinely enjoy your posts and you can give an oft-times completely different point of view to an issue but on occasions (like this) you really do appear to spout some complete rubbish.

You really don't want to know what I think of you right now.

DonDaddyD

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

Thats a bit random and certainly not fact.
I've had a few accidents. Are you maintaining that I have been affected mentally?
It could explain my presence here though.

i. In the context of the sentence, it is a 'figure of speech'. If it were truly a 'fact' then I would have typed 'It is a fact that'.

ii. Even then it could be argued to be a fact because it is likely that if you have a physical accident you will be affected, in some way, mentally.

iii. No one can ever determine what physical accidents will impact upon a person mentally or how they will be affected or the severity of the mental illness, if any. There is, however, a link between physical trauma and subsequent mental illness: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for example.

As you are no longer here their is no point in addressing this to you.
He does spout some utter tosh before he back tracks doesnt he?

Where you claim 'back track' I see clarification of a point that you did not read properly. I have not added anything to the post you have quoted, I have just reinforced, through clarification, the point it makes.

team47b wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Well at least there was 3 -5 posts of sensible discussion until the cake stop brigade degenerated things back into pathetic insults and pointless comments. I'm out.

Not a lot of the tolerance that he espouses.

sensible discussion who/where does he think he is?

I'm out, flounce. flounce

I think the following response is appropriate given the level of maturity you've previously displayed.

"Your Mum".

daviesee

DonDaddyD wrote:

Where you claim 'back track' I see clarification of a point that you did not read properly. I have not added anything to the post you have quoted, I have just reinforced, through clarification, the point it makes.

Welcome back!
No.
What you said was that cyclists that have had accidents are likely to have mental disorders.
This means that the majority of cyclists having had an accident will have a mental disorder so either -
1. I have a mental disorder.
2. I am one off the extra ordinary cyclists having had an accident who dont have a mental disorder. Ergo I am extra ordinary.

:P

BillyMansell

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Where you claim 'back track' I see clarification of a point that you did not read properly. I have not added anything to the post you have quoted, I have just reinforced, through clarification, the point it makes.

Welcome back!
No.
What you said was that cyclists that have had accidents are likely to have mental disorders.
This means that the majority of cyclists having had an accident will have a mental disorder so either -
1. I have a mental disorder.
2. I am one off the extra ordinary cyclists having had an accident who dont have a mental disorder. Ergo I am extra ordinary.

:P

You're wilfully misrepresenting his words.

He actually said people would be affected mentally (you made specific reference to those words) and not that they would have a mental disorder.

As we all have mental health and human cognition then we can all be affected mentally.

DonDaddyD

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Where you claim 'back track' I see clarification of a point that you did not read properly. I have not added anything to the post you have quoted, I have just reinforced, through clarification, the point it makes.

Welcome back!
No.
What you said was that cyclists that have had accidents are likely to have mental disorders.
This means that the majority of cyclists having had an accident will have a mental disorder so either -
1. I have a mental disorder.
2. I am one off the extra ordinary cyclists having had an accident who dont have a mental disorder. Ergo I am extra ordinary.

:P

What I wrote is this:

"In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally."

Personally I think the use of the word likely qualifies the assertion that if you have had an accident there is potential to be affected mentally but the outcome of that eventuality is not absolute. E.g. If you have been hit by a vehiclem, nearly lost your life, had a life altering injury etc it is likely that the experience will affect you mentally.

I cannot explain that any further.

Are you attempting to say that it won't?

daviesee

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

His words. Fully quoted.

I have been hit by a car.

I dont think I have been affected mentally.

Dispute those facts.

DonDaddyD

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

His words. Fully quoted.

To which I repeat my post above:

Personally I think the use of the word likely qualifies the assertion that if you have had an accident there is potential to be affected mentally but the outcome of that eventuality is not absolute. E.g. If you have been hit by a vehicle, nearly lost your life, had a life altering injury etc it is likely that the experience will affect you mentally.

I cannot explain that any further.

Are you attempting to say that it won't?

DonDaddyD

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

His words. Fully quoted.

I have been hit by a car.

I dont think I have been affected mentally.

Dispute those facts.

Given your inability to understand what I've written it is likely that you may have been affected and are completely unaware.

How's them apples?

daviesee

DonDaddyD wrote:

Given your inability to understand what I've written it is likely that you may have been affected and are completely unaware.

How's them apples?

Stop picking on me.
Dont you know that it is not nice too pick on people with mental disorders.

DonDaddyD

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Given your inability to understand what I've written it is likely that you may have been affected and are completely unaware.

How's them apples?

Stop picking on me.
Dont you know that it is not nice too pick on people with mental disorders.

I think its unfortunate that you feel that way. There are a number of charities that can help support you. Maybe you can meet people with similar conditions.

Back to your point and your subsequent lack or inability to understand what I wrote, (below)

"In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally."

If something is likely then by the very meaning of the word the proposed assertion is equally unlikely, this would account for the fact you may not have been affected mentally but a person encountering a similar collision may be affected mentally.

I hope that helps to clear things up for you and alleviate any frustration caused.

bigmat

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

In fact, for all those cyclists that have had accidents they are likely to be, in some way, affected mentally. They may have received services to help them through the anxiety, depression, addiction, developed phobia of the experience that they've been through. Perhaps they lost their job because the affect on their mind was affecting their work and their boss displayed the same level of understanding and compassion that you guys have. Friends start distancing themselves and the mental health condition detriorates because of how the World has responded.

His words. Fully quoted.

I have been hit by a car.

I dont think I have been affected mentally.

Dispute those facts.

Any significant event will have some impact on you "mentally" - you will adjust your response to certain situations, "learn" from experience as it were. You might not learn much, any change in behaviour might be sub-conscious, but it will have an effect. You might not have PTSD, say, but perhaps you'll be a bit twitchy when you hear an engine behind you, or remember to stop at a red light, or whatever. That's how humans behave.

daviesee

Likely -
Definitions
adjective

1. usually foll by an infinitive tending or inclined; apt ⇒ likely to rain
2. probable ⇒ a likely result
3. believable or feasible; plausible
4. appropriate for a purpose or activity
5. having good possibilities of success ⇒ a likely candidate
6. (dialect (mainly US) attractive, agreeable, or enjoyable ⇒ her likely ways won her many friends
adverb

7. probably or presumably
8. See as likely as not

I was reading it as Nos. 2, 5 & 7.
You were intending 8.

I win 3-1.

daviesee

BigMat wrote:

Any significant event will have some impact on you "mentally" - you will adjust your response to certain situations, "learn" from experience as it were. You might not learn much, any change in behaviour might be sub-conscious, but it will have an effect. You might not have PTSD, say, but perhaps you'll be a bit twitchy when you hear an engine behind you, or remember to stop at a red light, or whatever. That's how humans behave.

See.
If DDD could simply have said that then this debate would have been shorter. He didnt, so it wasnt.