World Championship - ***SPOILERS***
Comments
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“I have been training in Italy last week but my form is not improving. It’s no use just to ride this race when I can’t have a good result,” Kreuziger said, according to Tuttobici.Contador is the Greatest0
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frenchfighter wrote:
Interesting how a) teams use it as training and b) how invested Riis is in Roche.0 -
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Contador is the Greatest0 -
I thought what Boardman said was that Martin had used a Camelbak in the past, I don't think he was using one yesterday?knedlicky wrote:
I didn’t notice any rider drinking on the TV coverage - in Martin's case maybe I wouldn't have had, because Boardman said he had the camelback system - although I noticed Martin also had a bottle on his frame. But then empty?frenchfighter wrote:Phinney didn't have a drink in the TTT which would have affected him. You wonder if stopping for the bottle would have been better but it is a difficult call.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/julich- ... -worlds-tt0 -
Mad_Malx wrote:RonB wrote:Source: William H on podiumcafe.com...
[Nice graphs]
Those are very interesting, thanks
+1
I think I like Cancellara's approach.. go big and pray that you can hold the Martin's pace! (even if he couldn't in the end)
Wiggins does like his negative splits though, and there must be some kind of performance reasoning behind it?0 -
Contador is the Greatest0 -
RonB wrote:Source: William H on podiumcafe.com...
Cancellara’s performance dropping off at the end – more dramatically in 2011, in fact.
Isn't that because Canc stacked it in 2011?
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
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Great U23 squad for Friday. Got to be in with a shout of a medal there.0
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Yellow Peril wrote:Great U23 squad for Friday. Got to be in with a shout of a medal there.
Definitely. The US team's mainly made up of Bontrager riders like Lawson Craddock - they'll be strong too.0 -
Looks like someone has coloured this in with sharpie?frenchfighter wrote:0 -
ad_snow wrote:
Looks like someone has coloured this in with sharpie?frenchfighter wrote:
that's what I thought....maybe it's some pseudoscience like colouring the edges of your CD green with a felt tip to improve their sound.0 -
ad_snow wrote:
Looks like someone has coloured this in with sharpie?frenchfighter wrote:
Doesn't fit with the sponsors - think its a FSA chainring?0 -
ad_snow wrote:
Looks like someone has coloured this in with sharpie?frenchfighter wrote:
that's what I thought....maybe it's some pseudoscience like colouring the edges of your CD green with a felt tip to improve their sound.0 -
I glanced at it quickly and I thought it was unidirectional carbon like on the Campag cranks, looks like it is just sharpie! Martin would probably wreck a carbon chain ring to be fair. Still they could have at least sprayed it with a rattle can, piss poor planning!0
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Paul 8v wrote:I glanced at it quickly and I thought it was unidirectional carbon like on the Campag cranks, looks like it is just sharpie! Martin would probably wreck a carbon chain ring to be fair. Still they could have at least sprayed it with a rattle can, wee-wee poor planning!
Nah, I reckon these things a bit more complex than that, as you say it "almost" looks like they want us to know...
*innocent looks*We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Paul 8v wrote:I glanced at it quickly and I thought it was unidirectional carbon like on the Campag cranks...
So I have wasted my money on that Record chainset? I could have just got Veloce and a marker pen!
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Would have fooled megreasedscotsman wrote:Paul 8v wrote:I glanced at it quickly and I thought it was unidirectional carbon like on the Campag cranks...
So I have wasted my money on that Record chainset? I could have just got Veloce and a marker pen!
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Final starting lists: http://www.toscana2013.it/ordini-di-partenza/?lang=en
Pro men: http://www.toscana2013.it/wp-content/up ... tailed.pdf
Interesting that Bettini hasn't selected a single Cannondale rider. Must be worried about Sagan0 -
mfin wrote:powerbookboy wrote:I think the story of that time-trial was for all to see on the podium. Wiggins' legs looked positively skinny compared to Martins, and Spartacus looks like he's dropped a bit of weight, presumably for the Road Race. The only way Wiggins could win that was getting a thigh transport...
Bearing in mind the dreadful (it's all relative) season he's had, it's a good result, all things considered.
No, skinny legs will do fine, the watts they are continually putting out over the duration are nowhere near the maximum their legs would put out in a short burst sprint. The legs bit you observe doesn't really mean anything here.
I'm not a sport scientist, but I don't get that. We're not looking for Watts/kg to get maximal performance on a course like that, we're looking for absolute aerobic Watts, with a side order of aerodynamics. I don't know how much additional drag a great big pair of thighs gives you (some I'm sure, bearing in mind they're spinning away) but Wiggins deliberately put bulk on for this TT, obviously he doesn't believe skinny is better. I would have though the logic must be something like:
1). Muscle can produce a set amount of Watts/gram before going aerobic. The amount of power the muscle can create will be limited by the amount of oxygen supplied before it goes anaerobic.
2). Therefore you can safely keep adding muscle until you can't supply enough oxygen for it to be usable in a positive way.
This suggests that Martin must have astonishing oxygen carrying capacity to support that muscle mass. Alternatively it means that Wiggins has a much lower oxygen carrying capacity and hence has to have skinny legs as he can't get fuel to mega-thighs. Neither of which makes any sense to me.
I would suggest an alternative explanation. Wiggins could quite easily add more muscle mass, and hence more Watts (think of his pre-road physique). He didn't, because he was compromised in his TT preparation by needing get over the lumps in the Tour of Britain. This meant he entered the World TT in good shape, but not in the ideal physical shape for this specific power orientated course. Hence the thighs comment. Similarly Cancellara has an eye on the road race, and the power climbs on that mean he's dropped a few kilos, with the resultant loss of aerobic power.
If this was either of their sole goals for the season, I think they'd have been closer to Martin. Not to disrespect our Triple TT champ. He's a deserving winner - best prepared, best focused, best performance.0 -
powerbookboy wrote:...Wiggins deliberately put bulk on for this TT, obviously he doesn't believe skinny is better.
Wiggo looks to have put on 5kg or so since the Giro. This will be largely fat, as it's very difficult to add such muscle mass quickly when training for an aerobic sport.
My guess is that not trying to be ~70kg for GT racing is just so much easier for Wiggo, hence he's simply put on weight as there's no real incentive to be abnormally light as there was when aiming for GTs. I doubt his power output for a TT will have changed much as a result, though short, intensive efforts might be easier. The ability to produce these definitely decline when you get really thin, based on my experience of lightweight rowers. Not sure why, though!0 -
I doubt that, whatever you said. TT ability comes from sustainable, not absolute, power - and that slow-twitch whateverthefack mechanism has little to do with muscle size. I'd guess that size gain is incidental to eating a caloric surplus, as opposed to the usual maintenance, or deficit when cutting for soemthing hilly; a caloric surplus being beneficial to recovery and therefore FTP (absolute, not weight-relative).powerbookboy wrote:mfin wrote:powerbookboy wrote:I think the story of that time-trial was for all to see on the podium. Wiggins' legs looked positively skinny compared to Martins, and Spartacus looks like he's dropped a bit of weight, presumably for the Road Race. The only way Wiggins could win that was getting a thigh transport...
Bearing in mind the dreadful (it's all relative) season he's had, it's a good result, all things considered.
No, skinny legs will do fine, the watts they are continually putting out over the duration are nowhere near the maximum their legs would put out in a short burst sprint. The legs bit you observe doesn't really mean anything here.
I would have though the logic must be something like:
1). Muscle can produce a set amount of Watts/gram before going aerobic. The amount of power the muscle can create will be limited by the amount of oxygen supplied before it goes anaerobic.
2). Therefore you can safely keep adding muscle until you can't supply enough oxygen for it to be usable in a positive way.
But then I know nothing, and I may be wrong, and I may be embarrassing myself, and I already feel regret, and the roof, walls, floor, so black, are closing in; window, I hop nimbly out. Balls swinging in the breezy Melbourne evening air.1968, human content on bitumen.0 -
Junior girls road race finished. Danish World champion: Amali Dideriksen
Bethany Hayward finishes in the first small bunch, 20th0 -
Outsider art by Loan wrote:
I doubt that, whatever you said. TT ability comes from sustainable, not absolute, power - and that slow-twitch whateverthefack mechanism has little to do with muscle size. I'd guess that size gain is incidental to eating a caloric surplus, as opposed to the usual maintenance, or deficit when cutting for soemthing hilly; a caloric surplus being beneficial to recovery and therefore FTP (absolute, not weight-relative).powerbookboy wrote:mfin wrote:powerbookboy wrote:I think the story of that time-trial was for all to see on the podium. Wiggins' legs looked positively skinny compared to Martins, and Spartacus looks like he's dropped a bit of weight, presumably for the Road Race. The only way Wiggins could win that was getting a thigh transport...
Bearing in mind the dreadful (it's all relative) season he's had, it's a good result, all things considered.
No, skinny legs will do fine, the watts they are continually putting out over the duration are nowhere near the maximum their legs would put out in a short burst sprint. The legs bit you observe doesn't really mean anything here.
I would have though the logic must be something like:
1). Muscle can produce a set amount of Watts/gram before going aerobic. The amount of power the muscle can create will be limited by the amount of oxygen supplied before it goes anaerobic.
2). Therefore you can safely keep adding muscle until you can't supply enough oxygen for it to be usable in a positive way.
But then I know nothing, and I may be wrong, and I may be embarrassing myself, and I already feel regret, and the roof, walls, floor, so black, are closing in; window, I hop nimbly out. Balls swinging in the breezy Melbourne evening air.
Mmm. Ok everyone seems to be of the opinion that muscle mass doesn't correlate to sustainable aerobic power output. Putting science to one side, when's the last time we saw a skinny TT World Champion? Going back as far as I can remember, most good TTers where big burly sods. Which provides a lot of anecdotal evidence that bigger is better does it not? Even down your local club, the best TTers tend not to be whippets...0 -
FJS wrote:Junior girls road race finished. Danish World champion: Amali Dideriksen
Bethany Hayward finishes in the first small bunch, 20th
Seems that there was a breakaway early on - first lap - 3 riders, than joined by 2 chasers. Dideriksen came from that small group, I think?0 -
The mitochondria that convert fuel into energy need a place to live.Wallace and Gromit wrote:powerbookboy wrote:Not sure why, though!0 -
powerbookboy wrote:Outsider art by Loan wrote:
I doubt that, whatever you said. TT ability comes from sustainable, not absolute, power - and that slow-twitch whateverthefack mechanism has little to do with muscle size. I'd guess that size gain is incidental to eating a caloric surplus, as opposed to the usual maintenance, or deficit when cutting for soemthing hilly; a caloric surplus being beneficial to recovery and therefore FTP (absolute, not weight-relative).powerbookboy wrote:mfin wrote:powerbookboy wrote:I think the story of that time-trial was for all to see on the podium. Wiggins' legs looked positively skinny compared to Martins, and Spartacus looks like he's dropped a bit of weight, presumably for the Road Race. The only way Wiggins could win that was getting a thigh transport...
Bearing in mind the dreadful (it's all relative) season he's had, it's a good result, all things considered.
No, skinny legs will do fine, the watts they are continually putting out over the duration are nowhere near the maximum their legs would put out in a short burst sprint. The legs bit you observe doesn't really mean anything here.
I would have though the logic must be something like:
1). Muscle can produce a set amount of Watts/gram before going aerobic. The amount of power the muscle can create will be limited by the amount of oxygen supplied before it goes anaerobic.
2). Therefore you can safely keep adding muscle until you can't supply enough oxygen for it to be usable in a positive way.
But then I know nothing, and I may be wrong, and I may be embarrassing myself, and I already feel regret, and the roof, walls, floor, so black, are closing in; window, I hop nimbly out. Balls swinging in the breezy Melbourne evening air.
Mmm. Ok everyone seems to be of the opinion that muscle mass doesn't correlate to sustainable aerobic power output. Putting science to one side, when's the last time we saw a skinny TT World Champion? Going back as far as I can remember, most good TTers where big burly sods. Which provides a lot of anecdotal evidence that bigger is better does it not? Even down your local club, the best TTers tend not to be whippets...
Confounding factors abound.
1. No one's really that big in professional road cycling. If extra muscle mass has an effect, it's not significant.
2. Again, from larger TTers you might equally conclude that a relaxed diet is beneficial to FTP and that any muscle gain is incidental.
3. Good TTers tend to be taller; put them in a crowd and they'll look bigger.
4. Light, TT-capable, say, Froome-like riders, have power to weight ratios that let them compete in GTs, and that becomes their focus.
5. In the same vein, riders who can't hope to climb well might put more energy into TT training (thus, good position, minimal loss of power in that position, timed peaks).1968, human content on bitumen.0
