Coaching for performance

cmhill79

Hi, I'm a weekend recreational rider doing roughly 100 kms (60 mile) rides on a weekend at approx 26 km/h (16 m/h) but looking to take it to the next level. Has anyone had experience with a riding coach? Does it make a difference? Is it worth it?

styxd

Never used a coach, but of course it'll make a difference, otherwise there wouldnt be coaches.

You might want to state what you think is the "next level"

Also, how much time do you spend riding a week?

cmhill79

styxd wrote:

Never used a coach, but of course it'll make a difference, otherwise there wouldnt be coaches.

You might want to state what you think is the "next level"

Also, how much time do you spend riding a week?

Yes your first statement is likely true. I don't really have the time (nor inclination) to get fitter and/or stronger but wondering if technique improvements will give me another 5-10% as want to ride with a group moving a little faster than I can manage at present.

cmhill79

I spend 4-6 hours on the bike each week. I'd have enough time for maybe 2 more

styxd

If you dont have the time then I cant see the point in a coach.

Im not sure what you mean with regards to technique.

You could alwyas get a bike fit, that may give you the extra 5-10%

Also - is this a wind up? :-D

styxd

You could make improvements with 8 hours a week I'd have thought, aslong as you don't spend half of those doing a slow 60 mile weekend ride!

cmhill79

Ha ha no I am serious. 16 m/ph includes numerous hills so I don't regard it as "slow". Am doing > 20 m p/h on the flat

styxd

cmhill79 wrote:

Ha ha no I am serious. 16 m/ph includes numerous hills so I don't regard it as "slow". Am doing > 20 m p/h on the flat

I dunno, if all you do is ride 16mph 60 miles rides on a Sunday, then that's all you be able to do. I'd say to get quicker you need to stress your body.

Probably worth looking in the training forum, there's probably loads of advice there.

But if you've got the money for a coach, then go for it.

GiantMike

Coaching really needs to be targetted for you to feel that you're getting a benefit. As a coach, I could make you fitter in 4 weeks by telling you to go out and ride as hard as you can every other day for 3 hours for 3 weeks, then have a week off. After that you'd be fitter, but it wouldn't be targetted at your aim (and I wouldn't seriously prescribe any such training without knowing you and your aims first).

In 6-8 hours a week you could get some good gains.

cougie

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

LegendLust

styxd wrote:

If you dont have the time then I cant see the point in a coach.

Im not sure what you mean with regards to technique.

You could alwyas get a bike fit, that may give you the extra 5-10%

Also - is this a wind up? :-D

Having less time to train is exactly the right time to use a coach - they'll get the best out of the limited time you have.

styxd

LegendLust wrote:

styxd wrote:

If you dont have the time then I cant see the point in a coach.

Im not sure what you mean with regards to technique.

You could alwyas get a bike fit, that may give you the extra 5-10%

Also - is this a wind up? :-D

Having less time to train is exactly the right time to use a coach - they'll get the best out of the limited time you have.

Well yeh, but there's a difference between "less time" and "I don't have the time or inclination to get fitter or stronger" which suggested to me that the only time the OP has for cycling is their 60mile ride at a weekend.

macroadie

cougie wrote:

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

spot on. I joined a fast group of riders every Tuesday and Thursday for 30 fast miles and moved up speed from 18mphr to 25-28mphr within 2 months. I do 6 hours a week average.

I also invested in this book after reading good reviews;

The Time-Crunched Cyclist, 2nd Ed.: Fit, Fast, Powerful in 6 Hours a Week

bernithebiker

macroadie wrote:

cougie wrote:

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

spot on. I joined a fast group of riders every Tuesday and Thursday for 30 fast miles and moved up speed from 18mphr to 25-28mphr within 2 months. I do 6 hours a week average.

I also invested in this book after reading good reviews;

The Time-Crunched Cyclist, 2nd Ed.: Fit, Fast, Powerful in 6 Hours a Week

Jeez, good group.

28mph is nearly 45km/h. If you're averaging that, even in a group, you're doing pretty well.....

As a indication I came 15th (bunch sprint) (out of 300) in a 100km race last Friday, and the average there was 38.5km/h.....

carrock

macroadie wrote:

cougie wrote:

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

spot on. I joined a fast group of riders every Tuesday and Thursday for 30 fast miles and moved up speed from 18mphr to 25-28mphr within 2 months. I do 6 hours a week average.

I also invested in this book after reading good reviews;

The Time-Crunched Cyclist, 2nd Ed.: Fit, Fast, Powerful in 6 Hours a Week

You increased your speed by 7-10 mph in 2 months?

And you can average 25-28mph for 30 miles, despite only training 6 hours a week.

Stop wasting your time on this forum and give Sir Dave a call...... :shock:

macroadie

carrock wrote:

macroadie wrote:

cougie wrote:

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

spot on. I joined a fast group of riders every Tuesday and Thursday for 30 fast miles and moved up speed from 18mphr to 25-28mphr within 2 months. I do 6 hours a week average.

I also invested in this book after reading good reviews;

The Time-Crunched Cyclist, 2nd Ed.: Fit, Fast, Powerful in 6 Hours a Week

You increased your speed by 7-10 mph in 2 months?

And you can average 25-28mph for 30 miles, despite only training 6 hours a week.

Stop wasting your time on this forum and give Sir Dave a call...... :shock:

Thanks man!
The 30 miles, we take a break after 15 miles and just pedal at 22mphr the hammer again. Not straight 30 mile at 28mph. I used to get dropped every other day by this group and I finally was able to stay with them. We do this every Tue & Thursday after work. I also do my individual 4 sets of 60 seconds all sprints, 60 seconds rest.

bernithebiker

madasahattersley wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

macroadie wrote:

cougie wrote:

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

spot on. I joined a fast group of riders every Tuesday and Thursday for 30 fast miles and moved up speed from 18mphr to 25-28mphr within 2 months. I do 6 hours a week average.

I also invested in this book after reading good reviews;

The Time-Crunched Cyclist, 2nd Ed.: Fit, Fast, Powerful in 6 Hours a Week

Jeez, good group.

28mph is nearly 45km/h. If you're averaging that, even in a group, you're doing pretty well.....

As a indication I came 15th (bunch sprint) (out of 300) in a 100km race last Friday, and the average there was 38.5km/h.....

You did not do a 300 rider race..

Says who? To be precise it was 273 riders. Were you there?

slowbike

cmhill79 wrote:

I don't really have the time (nor inclination) to get fitter and/or stronger

Time I can understand but inclination?!

You want to improve 5-10% by doing nothing ... then bike fit is your main possibility.

If you want to improve 5-10% in the same time you currently have then a coach could help devise a sensible plan - but it would just be a plan - you'd need to provide the inclination to execute that plan and report back.

okgo

macroadie wrote:

carrock wrote:

macroadie wrote:

cougie wrote:

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

spot on. I joined a fast group of riders every Tuesday and Thursday for 30 fast miles and moved up speed from 18mphr to 25-28mphr within 2 months. I do 6 hours a week average.

I also invested in this book after reading good reviews;

The Time-Crunched Cyclist, 2nd Ed.: Fit, Fast, Powerful in 6 Hours a Week

You increased your speed by 7-10 mph in 2 months?

And you can average 25-28mph for 30 miles, despite only training 6 hours a week.

Stop wasting your time on this forum and give Sir Dave a call...... :shock:

Thanks man!
The 30 miles, we take a break after 15 miles and just pedal at 22mphr the hammer again. Not straight 30 mile at 28mph. I used to get dropped every other day by this group and I finally was able to stay with them. We do this every Tue & Thursday after work. I also do my individual 4 sets of 60 seconds all sprints, 60 seconds rest.

Sounds like a good chaingang, where is that? How many people do it with you? That is the sort of pace you'd expect a fairly flat E12 National B race to go at...

bernithebiker

madasahattersley wrote:

Who says? The UCI says. The maximum for any race is 200 riders, and that inlcudes races in the same league as Milan-San Remo, Paris-Roubaix etc...

I don't give a rat's arse what the UCI says.*

When a group of riders come together to see who can get to the finish line first, then I call it a race.

Likewise this year's Etape du Tour; over 13000 riders, (i.e. a bit more than 200) and I can tell you - up the front it was, by any normal person's definition, a race.

Or are amateurs not allowed to race?

*My bike is below 6.8kg anyway, so it's a non-issue.

markwb79

bernithebiker wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

macroadie wrote:

cougie wrote:

I'd save your money and just join a club. Riding with the fast boys will help you improve - both technique and speed.

spot on. I joined a fast group of riders every Tuesday and Thursday for 30 fast miles and moved up speed from 18mphr to 25-28mphr within 2 months. I do 6 hours a week average.

I also invested in this book after reading good reviews;

The Time-Crunched Cyclist, 2nd Ed.: Fit, Fast, Powerful in 6 Hours a Week

Jeez, good group.

28mph is nearly 45km/h. If you're averaging that, even in a group, you're doing pretty well.....

As a indication I came 15th (bunch sprint) (out of 300) in a 100km race last Friday, and the average there was 38.5km/h.....

You did not do a 300 rider race..

Says who? To be precise it was 273 riders. Were you there?

Must have been hilly?

markwb79

madasahattersley wrote:

Alright then, no need to get aggressive. The Etape is not a race. Sportives are not races. Chaingangs are not races.

I see the sort of weekend warriors all the time - spending lots of money on cycling and doing sportives and enjoying cycling is great, lots of people do that, it's just the people that are deluded and arrogant enough to think that they're racing when they're just riding that gets me. There is a WORLD of difference.

disagree....

Riding at the front of a sportive can be, and is just as hard as racing.

imposter2.0

Markwb79 wrote:

Riding at the front of a sportive can be, and is just as hard as racing.

Lots of things are 'just as hard as races' - but that doesn't mean they are races. Some of the efforts you make in training can be (and indeed should be) just as hard as racing. But, training is not racing, and neither are sportives.

cmhill79 wrote:

I don't really have the time (nor inclination) to get fitter and/or stronger

In which case, just carry on riding as you are...

markwb79

Imposter wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Riding at the front of a sportive can be, and is just as hard as racing.

Lots of things are 'just as hard as races' - but that doesn't mean they are races. Some of the efforts you make in training can be (and indeed should be) just as hard as racing. But, training is not racing, and neither are sportives.

All start together + trying to be over the finish line first = Is that not a race?

GiantMike

Markwb79 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Riding at the front of a sportive can be, and is just as hard as racing.

Lots of things are 'just as hard as races' - but that doesn't mean they are races. Some of the efforts you make in training can be (and indeed should be) just as hard as racing. But, training is not racing, and neither are sportives.

All start together + trying to be over the finish line first = Is that not a race?

No, it's not a race. Riders don't all start at the same time and a lot of the 'racers' you're 'racing' against, aren't aware they're in a 'race' They're having a day out in a Monkey outfit on a MTB, possibly for charity and having never ridden 100 miles before. Not like any race I've ever done.

But, for my education, what happens at the front of one of these 'race sportives'? Do people attack and go for long solo efforts? Do others organise chase groups? Or does a bunch of riders ride along, dropping people off the back of the group as they stop for a cake and a p!ss?

ugo.santalucia

How about a race to decide who is right about what defines a race?
I'll bring the gun... to give the start that is...

BTW: my view is that everything is a race... you see some pretty nice pieces of racing in the commuting section... infact the topic "silly commuting races" has well over 1,000 pages!

markwb79

GiantMike wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Riding at the front of a sportive can be, and is just as hard as racing.

Lots of things are 'just as hard as races' - but that doesn't mean they are races. Some of the efforts you make in training can be (and indeed should be) just as hard as racing. But, training is not racing, and neither are sportives.

All start together + trying to be over the finish line first = Is that not a race?

No, it's not a race. Riders don't all start at the same time and a lot of the 'racers' you're 'racing' against, aren't aware they're in a 'race' They're having a day out in a Monkey outfit on a MTB, possibly for charity and having never ridden 100 miles before. Not like any race I've ever done.

But, for my education, what happens at the front of one of these 'race sportives'? Do people attack and go for long solo efforts? Do others organise chase groups? Or does a bunch of riders ride along, dropping people off the back of the group as they stop for a cake and a p!ss?

I would say this is exactly what happened with at least the first 100 people on this years etape.

AK_jnr

I cant believe people are comparing Sportives with racing? Just because everyone is in Team Sky kit, it doesn't mean they are racing. Hahaha.

LegendLust

madasahattersley wrote:

I know a sportive 'winner' who decided to start doing actual races, and assuming he'd get his 2nd cat effortlessly within a few races he ended up getting dropped by the 4th cats at Hog Hill.

Those 4th cats would get a good spanking from most 3rd cats, who would get a good spanking from a good 2nd cat, who would...... etc etc etc.

If you want to be a racer, get yourself into an actual race, get a good humbling and realise you're not quick enough and spend the rest of your life trying to get quicker.

Sportives are not races

Couldn't have put it better myself

macroadie

It's in Houston and it's about 6 riders. We always have strangers pilling into our group.

Pross

European sportives are treated far more as races than they are here where BC are at pains to stress they aren't races due to legal and insurance reasons (I believe they even say 'results' shouldn't be published in order). On the continent they are more like marathons with elite athletes racing at the front for prizes, keen amateurs looking to get good times and others just wanting the achievement of finishing. They are taken so seriously that riders have tested positive for EPO riding them. I suspect the smaller events have a much greater proportion of people racing in them. An event doesn't have to comply with UCI regulations to be a race either - just ask anyone taking part in CTT time trials (and possibly LVRC or TLI races).

I've taken part in a BCF road race that had well over 300 riders during the IoM Cycling Festival in 1990, I think it was the Curwen Clague handicap and had around 400 starters over the various groups.