Vuelta stage 10 *spoiler*

morstar

Pross wrote:

What a great final climb, brutally steep without the freak show nature of something like the Angliru. Fantastic long range attack for the win. Now I should be sat here having enjoyed one of the best GT stages this year but all I've got is a headache from raising my eyebrows so much and I'm usually one of the least cynical posters on here with the attitude that even after all we've seen in the past we need to give the benefit of the doubt unless there's at least some circumstantial evidence. One top 10 GC finish in 10 GT starts, no stage wins, a dodgy past and yet at an age when most pros are 5 years or so into their retirement he is suddenly blitzing some of the best climbers in the world. Nibalis attack looked savage and left the rest for dead but he never really gained on Horner who didn't even look like he was riding hard. It's got me questioning not just this performance but my belief / optimism that the worst days are behind us. Or maybe I'm unfair and Horner was the outstanding rider of his generation robbed by people who responded better to doping!

That's what I was trying to say!

Pross

YorkshireRaw wrote:

Am sure we can rely on Spanish ADA to swoop in with their usual rigour.... ah.

....

Look on the bright side. He's not Spanish and is possibly going to prevent a Spaniard winning. There's every chance of unusually enthusiastic dope testing being undertaken

Mad_Malx

Pross wrote:

What a great final climb, brutally steep without the freak show nature of something like the Angliru. Fantastic long range attack for the win. Now I should be sat here having enjoyed one of the best GT stages this year but all I've got is a headache from raising my eyebrows so much and I'm usually one of the least cynical posters on here with the attitude that even after all we've seen in the past we need to give the benefit of the doubt unless there's at least some circumstantial evidence. One top 10 GC finish in 10 GT starts, no stage wins, a dodgy past and yet at an age when most pros are 5 years or so into their retirement he is suddenly blitzing some of the best climbers in the world. Nibalis attack looked savage and left the rest for dead but he never really gained on Horner who didn't even look like he was riding hard. It's got me questioning not just this performance but my belief / optimism that the worst days are behind us. Or maybe I'm unfair and Horner was the outstanding rider of his generation robbed by people who responded better to doping!

Excellent post. I'm more gullible than most and try to look at evidence (or lack of), but I'm struggling with this performance.

dabber

Pross wrote:

YorkshireRaw wrote:

Am sure we can rely on Spanish ADA to swoop in with their usual rigour.... ah.

....

Look on the bright side. He's not Spanish and is possibly going to prevent a Spaniard winning. There's every chance of unusually enthusiastic dope testing being undertaken

Aint that the truth!

tailwindhome

To be fair.......he's not as old as Jen Voight.


Mwahahaha.

joelsim

It does seem a bit too good to be true. He didn't look out on his feet at the end like Froome did so often in the Tour.

the article don

Horner aside, I thought that was great by Roche. And I'm so glad to see him at the sharp end of a GT because he basically seems in interviews like a lovely fellow. Honest, engaging, down to earth and with an almost childlike naivete. This despite the fact that he's handsome*, well-paid and the son a cycling legend. What a super fellow. Don't think he'll win the overall but I'd love to see him podium.

* I am a happily married heterosexual male; this is merely an observation. Carlton Kirby used the word "rakish"

ocdupalais

the article don wrote:

he basically seems in interviews like a lovely fellow. Honest, engaging, down to earth and with an almost childlike naivete.

Ah, don - you old sweetie. Careful you don't fall for a wrong 'un:
Tyler Hamilton was a lovely chap, too: with the obedient wife and the fragrant dog, Tugboat... Straight out of a Timotei ad.
And Virenque was the housewife/straight married men's choice, too...

cougie

Blimey. Just caught up on the highlights.
Horner doesn't even look to be trying hard. Imagine how good he will be when he really puts the hammer down.

thegibdog

Chris Horner looks like a badly animated computer character, even his celebration looked robotic.

On the plus side, I'm finding the Vuelta much more enjoyable since switching from Eurosport to ITV4.

RichN95.

I have no idea of what Horner may or may not be doing, but with respect to his age, it is worth remembering that Raymond Poulidor made the Tour de France podium when he was 40, so there's a precedent for this. And Horner was lightly raced in his 20s compared to most pros so there's less wear and tear.

I expect he'll fall down the GC once there are consecutive big mountain stages anyway.

afx237vi

Cyclingnews has Fenn and De Gendt down as DSQ - is that right? I thought Fenn crashed out.

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

I have no idea of what Horner may or may not be doing, but with respect to his age, it is worth remembering that Raymond Poulidor made the Tour de France podium when he was 40, so there's a precedent for this. And Horner was lightly raced in his 20s compared to most pros so there's less wear and tear.

I expect he'll fall down the GC once there are consecutive big mountain stages anyway.

Well, except for pretty much always suffering long term injuries, usually prior to hitting top form, that is.

afx237vi wrote:

Cyclingnews has Fenn and De Gendt down as DSQ - is that right? I thought Fenn crashed out.

It is correct. They were caught for hanging onto cars. Silly boys.....
They should have been hanging onto Chris Horner.

Pross

Blazing Saddles wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I have no idea of what Horner may or may not be doing, but with respect to his age, it is worth remembering that Raymond Poulidor made the Tour de France podium when he was 40, so there's a precedent for this. And Horner was lightly raced in his 20s compared to most pros so there's less wear and tear.

I expect he'll fall down the GC once there are consecutive big mountain stages anyway.

Well, except for pretty much always suffering long term injuries, usually prior to hitting top form, that is.

afx237vi wrote:

Cyclingnews has Fenn and De Gendt down as DSQ - is that right? I thought Fenn crashed out.

It is correct. They were caught for hanging onto cars. Silly boys.....
They should have been hanging onto Chris Horner.

They'd have had their arms ripped out of their sockets the rate he was going.

Rich, Poulidor had slightly better historical form than Horner has ever shown to be fair (not that you needed telling!).

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

Rich, Poulidor had slightly better historical form than Horner has ever shown to be fair (not that you needed telling!).

Sure. I'm just pointing out that there's at least one precedent for a 40 year doing something.

mfin

I'm certainly no fan of Horner to say the least(!) but he attacked with 5k(?) to go, then the others dick about a bit seeing who's gonna do what, not going completely flat out, while he rides self-admittedly to his srm... he had a good few k to go at his own flat out pace. I'm not saying anything is dodgy or not dodgy, but once he'd got the jump, he had nothing to do but try ride at the highest power he could sustain and see if it got him the result or not.

Of course, some people will like to assess doping possibilities based on his expression or winning this at this age, if you want to see a proper laughable doping performance, this is not really a 'Contador Special' is it?

Oh well, hopefully Horner will drop back in the next few days, and if he's on the naughty bus, he'll get done.

frenchfighter

Horner surprised us a bit, not because we didn’t think he was strong, but by the time he took on everyone. He won with a lot of authority today.
-Valverde

frenchfighter

Check out the pain faces.

BR 1979

Coach H wrote:

...he has as much "souplesse" as Hilda Ogden on a Raleigh Shopper.

Big f'ing LOL at that from me.

dave milne

afx237vi wrote:

Cyclingnews has Fenn and De Gendt down as DSQ - is that right? I thought Fenn crashed out.

for excessive pacing behind the team car in the stage according to itv highlights last night

timoid.

Somewhere near St Moritz a dapper Italian is laughing his ass off.

MrTapir

I expect Paul Kimmage to come out and immediately demand to be the embedded reporter with the Radioshack team.

Notwithstanding that, I thought it was a great end to the stage, the last climb looked utterly brutal!

I did get the feeling that Nibs could have gone with Horner (as he attacked fairly hard later on) but was waiting for the others to do something to put the pressure on them, which now he has. Maybe he waited a bit too long to attack again and couldnt take time on Horner. Did it level out near the top?

Great rides by Pinot and Roche, I was watching the highlights and when Nico made it back a couple of ks from the top, Graham Jones had a bit of a 'its Stephen Roche!' moment. which was nice.

squired

As it is the one going on right now it is easy to be biased, but so far this has been the best of the three Grand Tours in 2013.

Horner can't time trial well, so presumably Nibali will crush him in the TT and take back the lead. Talking of time trials - Cancellara has been doing a fantastic job pacing Horner up the climbs, so it will be interesting to see how well he rides on Wednesday too. Presumably the effort Cancellara is putting in on the climbs is part of his effort to be ready for the World Championship Road Race. He is definitely looking very good.

On the subject of climbing, has anyone seen anything explaining why Bentacur is riding so poorly? A guy who was ripping up climbs earlier in the season shouldn't be finishing near the back on every stage that is even slightly lumpy.

Richmond Racer

squired wrote:

As it is the one going on right now it is easy to be biased, but so far this has been the best of the three Grand Tours in 2013.

Horner can't time trial well, so presumably Nibali will crush him in the TT and take back the lead. Talking of time trials - Cancellara has been doing a fantastic job pacing Horner up the climbs, so it will be interesting to see how well he rides on Wednesday too. Presumably the effort Cancellara is putting in on the climbs is part of his effort to be ready for the World Championship Road Race. He is definitely looking very good.

On the subject of climbing, has anyone seen anything explaining why Bentacur is riding so poorly? A guy who was ripping up climbs earlier in the season shouldn't be finishing near the back on every stage that is even slightly lumpy.

Agree re Fabs - he's looking absolutely fanstastic right now

As for Bentancur, what's being put around is that he had family problems and was sick in the run-up to the Vuelta. Team made him ride the Vuelta, apparently. He's looking chunky (relatively speaking)

Give me more

On the subject of climbing, has anyone seen anything explaining why Bentacur is riding so poorly? A guy who was ripping up climbs earlier in the season shouldn't be finishing near the back on every stage that is even slightly lumpy.

He had been struggling with illness prior to the race. Judging from his riding he's still suffering the effects of it.

inseine

I'm doing my best to enjoy the race without thinking about possible doping, and it's been fun so far, but on that subject, Roche seems to be getting a free ride (on this forum) compared to Horner. He's on a new team (....) and he always seems quite big to be climing so well. Wiki says he's the same height as Velverde but 9kgs heavier. Seems like a cool guy though.

Richmond Racer

inseine wrote:

I'm doing my best to enjoy the race without thinking about possible doping, and it's been fun so far, but on that subject, Roche seems to be getting a free ride (on this forum) compared to Horner. He's on a new team (....) and he always seems quite big to be climing so well. Wiki says he's the same height as Velverde but 9kgs heavier. Seems like a cool guy though.

I've read that he's dropped some weight since the Tour to be in the best shape for the Vuelta - besides tbf Wiki aint the most reliable up to date source for such data...

inseine

Richmond Racer wrote:

inseine wrote:

I'm doing my best to enjoy the race without thinking about possible doping, and it's been fun so far, but on that subject, Roche seems to be getting a free ride (on this forum) compared to Horner. He's on a new team (....) and he always seems quite big to be climing so well. Wiki says he's the same height as Velverde but 9kgs heavier. Seems like a cool guy though.

I've read that he's dropped some weight since the Tour to be in the best shape for the Vuelta - besides tbf Wiki aint the most reliable up to date source for such data...

In fairness he says the same on his own website, but he may has lost some weight since.

Richmond Racer

I'm not going in windmills to defend Nico, but he does have a history of starting a GT pretty well, then having a nightmare day and then fading badly to lose a chance of his formerly coveted top 10 GC placing

the article don

I note the post count on the Vuelta picks up once doping gossip starts.