Orange 5 - A recreational bike only?

HebdenBiker

After 20 years of riding hardtails (mostly not-very-technical riding) I demoed an Orange 5 the other day. I took it round the red trail at Dalby. I have to say, it was an almost spiritual experience I rode steps and drop-offs that I would have bottled previously, and I generally went much faster and more confidently than on my HT, and had a fantastic time.
Now, I have fallen in love and I'm almost certainly going to get a Five.

I've been looking on the interweb today at races and events I could do on my new Five. However, it seems that this "all-rounder" is not particularly suitable for any type of UK events:

Gravity Enduros: People seem to ride 160mm forks as standard making the Five too small, at 140mm
Marathons: Better suited to a "smaller", lighter and better-climbing bike than a Five.
XC races: See above.

So I ask: what am I missing? Is there a whole category of MTB trail racing I haven't heard about, for which my Five would be perfect? OR is the Orange Five too "all-rounder" to be specialised enough for any type of competitive riding, and best suited to messing around with your mates at trail centres?

schmako

*awaits 5 page trollfest*

I would post a serious message but i'm on the hostels wifi with like a minute left.

DCR00

Don't get hung up on travel or what a bike supposedly can or cant or should or shouldn't do.

If you fancy entering an XC or Enduro race on a 5, go for it

poah

enter what ever race you are interested in.

HebdenBiker

DCR00 wrote:

Don't get hung up on travel or what a bike supposedly can or cant or should or shouldn't do.

If you fancy entering an XC or Enduro race on a 5, go for it

Well yes, but if you want to be competitive, surely it's best to use a bike suited to the job.

poah

have you raced before?

HebdenBiker

POAH wrote:

have you raced before?

A few XC races, about 18 years ago

Oh, and a local MTB Marathon last year, which is definitely better suited to my hardtail than to a Five (hilly but non-technical riding)

The Northern Monkey

I think you should try more than just the 1 bike.... there is better out there for cheaper.

But if the hat fits...

poah

HebdenBiker wrote:

POAH wrote:

have you raced before?

A few XC races, about 18 years ago

Oh, and a local MTB Marathon last year, which is definitely better suited to my hardtail than to a Five (hilly but non-technical riding)

bout the same as me lol. I'd not problem doing a race in my current bike wither XC or enduro. I'd not be competitive even if I was on the perfect bike. I'd only do it for the fun

lbalony

The guy who won the mens mountain bike at the olympics at Hadleigh Farm was riding a five :roll:

ej2320

HebdenBiker wrote:

After 20 years of riding hardtails (mostly not-very-technical riding) I demoed an Orange 5 the other day. I took it round the red trail at Dalby. I have to say, it was an almost spiritual experience I rode steps and drop-offs that I would have bottled previously, and I generally went much faster and more confidently than on my HT, and had a fantastic time.
Now, I have fallen in love and I'm almost certainly going to get a Five.

I've been looking on the interweb today at races and events I could do on my new Five. However, it seems that this "all-rounder" is not particularly suitable for any type of UK events:

Gravity Enduros: People seem to ride 160mm forks as standard making the Five too small, at 140mm
Marathons: Better suited to a "smaller", lighter and better-climbing bike than a Five.
XC races: See above.

So I ask: what am I missing? Is there a whole category of MTB trail racing I haven't heard about, for which my Five would be perfect? OR is the Orange Five too "all-rounder" to be specialised enough for any type of competitive riding, and best suited to messing around with your mates at trail centres?

Awesome bike, solid bombproof frame

Don't worry about travel for those events, you could race enduro on a 120 mm bike (maybe not the most comfortable) and you could race XC on a five. They only use hardtails cause their weight weenies, you build a light five and have good fitness you'd be surprised how rapid it is. You'd certainly be rapid on the downs to make up for the slightly slower climbing

cooldad

lbalony wrote:

The guy who won the mens mountain bike at the olympics at Hadleigh Farm was riding a five :roll:

Are you sure about that?

Or could it have been a Specialised?

HebdenBiker

lbalony wrote:

The guy who won the mens mountain bike at the olympics at Hadleigh Farm was riding a five :roll:

Is this one of those forum in-jokes or something? Because Jaroslav Kulhavy rode a Specialized.

HebdenBiker

ej2320 wrote:

HebdenBiker wrote:

After 20 years of riding hardtails (mostly not-very-technical riding) I demoed an Orange 5 the other day. I took it round the red trail at Dalby. I have to say, it was an almost spiritual experience I rode steps and drop-offs that I would have bottled previously, and I generally went much faster and more confidently than on my HT, and had a fantastic time.
Now, I have fallen in love and I'm almost certainly going to get a Five.

I've been looking on the interweb today at races and events I could do on my new Five. However, it seems that this "all-rounder" is not particularly suitable for any type of UK events:

Gravity Enduros: People seem to ride 160mm forks as standard making the Five too small, at 140mm
Marathons: Better suited to a "smaller", lighter and better-climbing bike than a Five.
XC races: See above.

So I ask: what am I missing? Is there a whole category of MTB trail racing I haven't heard about, for which my Five would be perfect? OR is the Orange Five too "all-rounder" to be specialised enough for any type of competitive riding, and best suited to messing around with your mates at trail centres?

Awesome bike, solid bombproof frame

Don't worry about travel for those events, you could race enduro on a 120 mm bike (maybe not the most comfortable) and you could race XC on a five. They only use hardtails cause their weight weenies, you build a light five and have good fitness you'd be surprised how rapid it is. You'd certainly be rapid on the downs to make up for the slightly slower climbing

Aye - I do take your point. It's just a very big purchase for me and I want to get it right.

Or else I could get one of these Which has an uprated spec for less money, and forks adjustable from 160-120mm. So that's 160mm for Enduro, 140mm (with corresponding lower stack height) for trail centres, and the lower price means I can keep my hardtail for XCing 8)

cooldad

HebdenBiker wrote:

lbalony wrote:

The guy who won the mens mountain bike at the olympics at Hadleigh Farm was riding a five :roll:

Is this one of those forum in-jokes or something? Because Jaroslav Kulhavy rode a Specialized.

Nope but I believe his brain hurts.

lawman

The 5 is the right kind of bike for enduro riding, theres a few ways you can go about it really. 160mm bikes with bigger forks and beefier frames tend to descend better but then they may be a bit more of a burden on the ups. 140mm bikes tend to be the opposite, easier on the ups but a smidge harder going down. Personally I think travel only plays a certain part in the way a bike rides. As much as I dislike the 5 its apparently a decent bike for that kind of thing, the Mojo/Orange team rode them at the Mega Avalanche this year and Brian Lopes rode a 120mm 29er at the first EWS round and is currently racing the Air DH at Crankworx on a 130/140mm HD-R.

In all honesty though the great thing about Enduro in the UK is its so accessible for anyone to turn up on any mountain bike and have a blast, enjoy the day and the trails and you don't need some super-specific 17lb hardtail or 250mm of travel to enjoy it. Just turn up, ride whatever it is you own, have fun, job done.

lawman

Just as proof of what a bike with "only" 130mm of travel can do...

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Air-DH-wit ... -2013.html

Also not bad for some bloke in his 40's!

ej2320

HebdenBiker wrote:

ej2320 wrote:

HebdenBiker wrote:

After 20 years of riding hardtails (mostly not-very-technical riding) I demoed an Orange 5 the other day. I took it round the red trail at Dalby. I have to say, it was an almost spiritual experience I rode steps and drop-offs that I would have bottled previously, and I generally went much faster and more confidently than on my HT, and had a fantastic time.
Now, I have fallen in love and I'm almost certainly going to get a Five.

I've been looking on the interweb today at races and events I could do on my new Five. However, it seems that this "all-rounder" is not particularly suitable for any type of UK events:

Gravity Enduros: People seem to ride 160mm forks as standard making the Five too small, at 140mm
Marathons: Better suited to a "smaller", lighter and better-climbing bike than a Five.
XC races: See above.

So I ask: what am I missing? Is there a whole category of MTB trail racing I haven't heard about, for which my Five would be perfect? OR is the Orange Five too "all-rounder" to be specialised enough for any type of competitive riding, and best suited to messing around with your mates at trail centres?

Awesome bike, solid bombproof frame

Don't worry about travel for those events, you could race enduro on a 120 mm bike (maybe not the most comfortable) and you could race XC on a five. They only use hardtails cause their weight weenies, you build a light five and have good fitness you'd be surprised how rapid it is. You'd certainly be rapid on the downs to make up for the slightly slower climbing

Aye - I do take your point. It's just a very big purchase for me and I want to get it right.

Or else I could get one of these Which has an uprated spec for less money, and forks adjustable from 160-120mm. So that's 160mm for Enduro, 140mm (with corresponding lower stack height) for trail centres, and the lower price means I can keep my hardtail for XCing 8)

I ride DH black runs on a 100mm FS bike, it's not the most comfortable ride in the world but I can get some good speed

The Five would be stiffer and the extra 40mm and slacker HA would mean its a DH machine

You don't NEED 160mm for enduro, the pros just choose that cause they tend to be so fast on the downs they don't mind the extra weight up

The Canyon would do you proud, Fabien Barel rides one and he seems to like it.
It's comes down to you really, if you really think 20mn extra travel will make a difference go for it, but you may regret it on the climbs

lbalony

cooldad wrote:

HebdenBiker wrote:

lbalony wrote:

The guy who won the mens mountain bike at the olympics at Hadleigh Farm was riding a five :roll:

Is this one of those forum in-jokes or something? Because Jaroslav Kulhavy rode a Specialized.

Nope but I believe his brain hurts.

Yes it was a poor joke! My humour often gets lost in writing! Not really sure what the winer was riding or who he was. I just like to throw some curve balls every now and then.

HebdenBiker

ej2320 wrote:

if you really think 20mn extra travel will make a difference go for it, but you may regret it on the climbs

Thanks for your very helpful post. It's not just the travel that is swaying me towards the Canyon; it's the better value as well. Plus, the fork is adjustable between 120 and 160mm so I could presumably shorten the fork for trail riding to adjust the bike's geometry in favour of climbing?

adamfo

I'd wait a bit. Lots of new AM 650B bikes from various manufacturers coming out shortly.

The Canyon AL Spectral 650b looks the ticket

http://www.bike-advisor.com/bicycle-new ... ctral.html

ej2320

HebdenBiker wrote:

ej2320 wrote:

if you really think 20mn extra travel will make a difference go for it, but you may regret it on the climbs

Thanks for your very helpful post. It's not just the travel that is swaying me towards the Canyon; it's the better value as well. Plus, the fork is adjustable between 120 and 160mm so I could presumably shorten the fork for trail riding to adjust the bike's geometry in favour of climbing?

You could, if you lowered the fork it would perform better on switchbacks and it will just feel nicer to climb on

Personally I don't like adjustable forks and I'd never bother to actually use it

Obviously the adjustable travel won't make it lighter but I suspect the Canyon isn't much heavier than the Fivr

Orange are generally poor value anyway so it's often better to build it 2nd hand or build it.
http://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/1389050/

poah

lawman wrote:

Just as proof of what a bike with "only" 130mm of travel can do...

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Air-DH-wit ... -2013.html

Also not bad for some bloke in his 40's!

I was about to post that lol

benpinnick

Im racing the next round of UKGE on a hardtail. I think your five will be fine.

rockmonkeysc

I would take a Five over a 160mm bike for gravity enduro. The courses just arent enough for a bike that big.

ej2320

There's no such thing as an enduro specific bike. It's become standard that 160mm is enduro, no more no less. The reality is most people would be just as fast on a 130mm bike as only the pros can really use that extra 30mm well.

A test was carried out once 3 people, Novice, experience and pro
2 bikes, a 100mm FS bike and a DH bike
On the DH track only the pro was actually any quicker with the DH specific bike ....

Thewaylander

The amount of pap i'm reading here is great keep it up.

welshkev

Thewaylander wrote:

The amount of pap i'm reading here is great keep it up.

me too, why have I only just found this thread?

welshkev

ej2320 wrote:

There's no such thing as an enduro specific bike. It's become standard that 160mm is enduro, no more no less. The reality is most people would be just as fast on a 130mm bike as only the pros can really use that extra 30mm well.

A test was carried out once 3 people, Novice, experience and pro
2 bikes, a 100mm FS bike and a DH bike
On the DH track only the pro was actually any quicker with the DH specific bike ....

pahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

is all I have to say on that.

I have ridden my 100mm travel hardtail (I don't have it now, but when I did) down cwmcarn DH track, I've also ridden my 140mm full suss down cwmcarn DH track, I've also ridden my DH bike down cwmcarn DH track....take a guess which one I was quickest on....um........

Thewaylander

want to make a commnt about sheep's mum but its not the CC....

lostboysaint

If you think that you had a revelation when you rode the 5 then wait until you ride a modern full susser