Rotor Power or Garmin Vector.. Opinions Please

timujink

Hi,

I have waited a few weeks now to the launch of Garmin Vector now need the opinion of seasoned cyclists.

Both have lots of claims and only time will tell if they hold true, so assuming they will function as advertised i am split with these differences...

Garmin
Pedal based ease of transfer

Rotor Power
Pedal Smoothness Statistic (and when used with Osync computer, you can see how smooth you are pedalling and focus on this whilst riding...safety is obviously issue here spending a lot of time watching your computer is guaranteed accident)

I had a retul scan not so long back and the results of the computrainer spin scan was bad.. very peanut shaped and not circular at all... the rotor power kills 2 birds with one stone.. you get a power meter reasonably priced and you get to train your stroke to be efficient (indoors using the software)... resulting in more power... where is the catch?

Tom Dean

Garmin Vector review here: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/hands-on-garmin-vector.html

It looks like there are updates for the Garmin 510 and 810 to include 'pedal smoothness' and 'torque efficiency' metrics. (if you think these are useful )

timujink

Cheers Tom.... lol at useful... im going to read DC's review now, great reviews always....

napoleond

FFS. 1400 quid for the vector. I was hoping for less than half that.

timujink

yes; it is pricey....

LegendLust

NapoleonD wrote:

FFS. 1400 quid for the vector. I was hoping for less than half that.

Well they've got to recoup years of RRD!

napoleond

How much is a strain gauge? 3 quid?

ric/rstsport

timujink wrote:

Hi,

I have waited a few weeks now to the launch of Garmin Vector now need the opinion of seasoned cyclists.

Both have lots of claims and only time will tell if they hold true, so assuming they will function as advertised i am split with these differences...

Garmin
Pedal based ease of transfer

Rotor Power
Pedal Smoothness Statistic (and when used with Osync computer, you can see how smooth you are pedalling and focus on this whilst riding...safety is obviously issue here spending a lot of time watching your computer is guaranteed accident)

I had a retul scan not so long back and the results of the computrainer spin scan was bad.. very peanut shaped and not circular at all... the rotor power kills 2 birds with one stone.. you get a power meter reasonably priced and you get to train your stroke to be efficient (indoors using the software)... resulting in more power... where is the catch?

can't help you with the power meter choice (i've got/had a wide variety of them from SRM and Power Tap to Ergomo).

However, irrespective of what you may have been told, the spin scan doesn't measure pedal forces, and, even if it does, there's nothing to suggest that 'circular' pedalling is good (all pedalling is circular). Some data suggests that stomping down more and pulling up less is a difference between good and average cyclists (who pedalled more 'evenly')

amaferanga

I'd not want either. That's a lot of money to pay to be a beta tester.

Herbsman

Power2max or Quarq

napoleond

I've been holding out buying another PM until this was released. Wish I'd just gone for the P2M now as that price is very disappointing.

LegendLust

NapoleonD wrote:

How much is a strain gauge? 3 quid?

Yep. And how much is years of working this strain gauge into a working pedal based power meter by a team of highly educated engineers cost?

Makes me laugh that people aren't prepared to pay for people's brains. If it's that easy, you go and build a powermeter then tot up how many hours it takes, then try and work out how much to charge for it to cover your hours, costs, production costs and make a profit.

napoleond

LegendLust wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

How much is a strain gauge? 3 quid?

Yep. And how much is years of working this strain gauge into a working pedal based power meter by a team of highly educated engineers cost?

Makes me laugh that people aren't prepared to pay for people's brains. If it's that easy, you go and build a powermeter then tot up how many hours it takes, then try and work out how much to charge for it to cover your hours, costs, production costs and make a profit.

You'd think that power meters would be coming down in price, not going up. Particularly from a major player.

I know how business works. I'm not as thick as you are making out. I'm glad I made you laugh though.

timujink

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

can't help you with the power meter choice (i've got/had a wide variety of them from SRM and Power Tap to Ergomo).

However, irrespective of what you may have been told, the spin scan doesn't measure pedal forces, and, even if it does, there's nothing to suggest that 'circular' pedalling is good (all pedalling is circular). Some data suggests that stomping down more and pulling up less is a difference between good and average cyclists (who pedalled more 'evenly')

Thanks for the input Ric. I have noticed a difference but you have consciously keep repeating for it to become natural...but to repeat incorrectly is, well, wrong itself...

I wanted to make the change to rotor q rings (curiousity more than anyting) so waited for the power meter to be released to see prices. I get good deals here in spain so now have to make this choice.... if I could, it would be SRM all the way, but the campag one is £2900..... i have all super record campag setup so this why I was contemplating the pedals....

ric/rstsport

timujink wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

can't help you with the power meter choice (i've got/had a wide variety of them from SRM and Power Tap to Ergomo).

However, irrespective of what you may have been told, the spin scan doesn't measure pedal forces, and, even if it does, there's nothing to suggest that 'circular' pedalling is good (all pedalling is circular). Some data suggests that stomping down more and pulling up less is a difference between good and average cyclists (who pedalled more 'evenly')

Thanks for the input Ric. I have noticed a difference but you have consciously keep repeating for it to become natural...but to repeat incorrectly is, well, wrong itself...

do you mean with the pedalling in circles?

timujink

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

do you mean with the pedalling in circles?

Yes; as I was a stomper..... wasting a lot of energy

Herbsman

How do you know you were wasting energy? Did you have some sort of in/out power meter to measure the power input vs. power output?

rozzer32

Going back to the OP I was also interested in the same. Had made my choice of the Rotor Power but wanted to see what the Vector was like.

I'm still going to go for the Rotor Power. I think the Vector is over priced for pedals. I run speedplay and love them so wouldn't really want to change. I think the rotor chainset would be easier to change bike to bike than pedals. Chainset is only a couple of bolts, don't have to mess about with pods or spacers if changing to different chainset types like you would on the Vector.

Rotor has got a lot of features. Problem is there isn't much research into these features so not sure if there really useful or not. But the knowledge will only get better in the future so having these features can't do any harm. And it's nice to have a product that will hopefully be a bit future proof as well as they are a big investment.

Barbarossa

Pedal wear out far faster than cranksets. Can you replace the pedal bodies on the Garmin at a reasonable cost?

meesterbond

Having ordered a P2M yesterday I was glad the Garmins came in at twice the price.

stueys

I was half waiting for the vector, shame the price is so insane. When you like at where powertap have just gone re pricing and p2max then you have to think garmin will see a correction within three months.

timujink

Barbarossa wrote:

Pedal wear out far faster than cranksets. Can you replace the pedal bodies on the Garmin at a reasonable cost?

I believe so, on dcrainmaker's review it does says so...

timujink

Herbsman wrote:

How do you know you were wasting energy? Did you have some sort of in/out power meter to measure the power input vs. power output?

....to answer your question, it would be difficult to measure such 'wasted energy'.....having said that, a smooth pedalling technique surely (and studies have proved this) would have benefits compared to a push slightly pull technique.... But I asked the question re power meters and this pedal smoothness element is addressed by rotor in the software...

twotyred

You've mentioned pedalling technique a couple of times now but I think we've got away with it as Bahzob hasn't turned up yet. Maybe if we all step quietly away from the thread he won't notice.

Seriously this topic has been done to death. Have a look here http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12916675.

timujink

twotyred wrote:

You've mentioned pedalling technique a couple of times now but I think we've got away with it as Bahzob hasn't turned up yet. Maybe if we all step quietly away from the thread he won't notice.

Seriously this topic has been done to death. Have a look here http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12916675.

ha ha ok then.... question still remains, the opinion on the 2 power meters.... Garmin is now, in my opinion, looking well over priced....and there are problems with Rotor http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/08/first-look-at-new-rotor-power-meter.html

why cant SRM be more competitively priced so I just stick with campag and get one!

FatTed

timujink wrote:

if I could, it would be SRM all the way, but the campag one is £2900..... i have all super record campag setup so this why I was contemplating the pedals....

TmuJink
I have the Quarq SRAM 22 power meter, works a charm with Campag 11 speed
http://www.quarq.com/sram-red-22-power-meter

timujink

Cheers FatTed.... ill have a look

timujink

FatTed wrote:

TmuJink
I have the Quarq SRAM 22 power meter, works a charm with Campag 11 speed
http://www.quarq.com/sram-red-22-power-meter

Its around the £2k mark aswell... a fe £££ more and you get SRM, the gold standrard.... Im looking for the £1k mark models... many on here have sounded out the power2max and to be honest, at around £660 (todays EURGBP) for the Rotor compatible unit... thats including shipping...

Unless you have deep pockets and or cycling at that level that requires ultimate precision (if you are then surely a team would supply you...) around £1k total setup is reasonable.. spend the rest of the money on a new set of wheels ;-)

twotyred

Another vote here for the Power2Max. I've had one for the last 18 months in a Rotor 3D crankset, been very happy with it and I stuggle to see why an amateur would need anything else. It will even do pseudo left/right comparisons if you think that's in any way important.

schlepcycling

twotyred wrote:

Another vote here for the Power2Max. I've had one for the last 18 months in a Rotor 3D crankset, been very happy with it and I stuggle to see why an amateur would need anything else. It will even do pseudo left/right comparisons if you think that's in any way important.

As the risk of turning this thread into a P2M love in, it's a +1 from me, had one since April and it has performed flawlessly, I even swap it between bikes and have got that process down to about 5 minutes.

meesterbond

schlepcycling wrote:

As the risk of turning this thread into a P2M love in, it's a +1 from me, had one since April and it has performed flawlessly, I even swap it between bikes and have got that process down to about 5 minutes.

Running even more of a risk of this thread turning into a P2M appreciation society can I ask anyone who's bought one how easy it was to install and set-up. I've just bought the 3D+ compact spider which I'll be fitting my cranks and rings onto but was curious whether there's a knack to fitting everything or anything to look out for?

I've also got two bikes which the 3D+ will fit (with a change of BB on one) so very interested to hear that it's easy to swap over.