Jumping red Lights

jacknorell

Of course it's possible that jumping lights can cause significant consequences.

However, it's *likely* that only the *cyclist* would come to any harm.

Comparing RLJ to drink driving is asinine. It's unsafe, yes. It's annoying drivers, yes. But it's pretty unlikely to kill anyone.

There is one or two intersections I do jump the light on at times, because of how the road narrows and causes lane conflicts right after in very heavy traffic. Thankfully, the lights are timed in a way that makes it very safe to do so and won't interfere with any other traffic. I think it's safer on those.

However, 99% of the time it's stupid and only serves to annoy others.

{edit to fix typo}

davidtalbot

Well in the last week I've seen 2 incidents where RLJ cyclists have motorists who were paying far more attention to what was happening than they were to thank for the fact they are still alive.
Last week Weston crossroads near Stafford roadie down on the aero bars decided he'd just keep going and turn left against the red light, goodness knows how the right turning truck missed him. Then tonight in Ashbourne mtb coming down Derby road and going straight on onto Compton didn't even bother slowing, lucky for him my car has good brakes!
It's idiots like those that give us all a bad name.

jacknorell

@davidtalbot

Couldn't agree more. Last week I observed two ss riders blithely going through light after light abreast with a number of evasive actions taken by cars, motorcycles and on one occasion a lorry. I kept catching up to them between lights!

I kept thinking they'll get run down, but...

Idiots. That was the most blatant in a good while. You're right, they do give us a really bad name. And we end up dealing with even more driver aggro because of it.

bails87

But why should I have a bad name because someone I've never met and I have no connection with goes through a red light? They're the pr*ck, not me!

No one should RLJ, not in a car, or on a bike. But when people do it in cars (and they do RLJ in cars, all the time. normally after accelerating to get through the junction) that doesn't reflect badly on me when I'm in my car. I've nearly been hit by three different 'Chelsea tractors' at the same pedestrian crossing, in a 30 zone, outside a nursery and primary school. I've seen cars seemingly get bored of waiting and after sitting at red for 15 seconds just drive off. And every single time I go through a big crossroads just down the road from my house I see cars 'overshoot' the right turn phase so they're still coming through the junction when the conflicting phase has gone green.

They should stop because they give all drivers a bad name....

Headhuunter

bails87 wrote:

But why should I have a bad name because someone I've never met and I have no connection with goes through a red light? They're the pr*ck, not me!

No one should RLJ, not in a car, or on a bike. But when people do it in cars (and they do RLJ in cars, all the time. normally after accelerating to get through the junction) that doesn't reflect badly on me when I'm in my car. I've nearly been hit by three different 'Chelsea tractors' at the same pedestrian crossing, in a 30 zone, outside a nursery and primary school. I've seen cars seemingly get bored of waiting and after sitting at red for 15 seconds just drive off. And every single time I go through a big crossroads just down the road from my house I see cars 'overshoot' the right turn phase so they're still coming through the junction when the conflicting phase has gone green.

They should stop because they give all drivers a bad name....

Yes, that's exactly my thinking. Why is it that somehow motorists and people in general feel it's acceptable to reflect any bad behaviour by some bloke on a bike the sawy RLJ or on the pavement across ALL cyclists? If you see a driver speeding whilst on the phone, you don't feel the need to blame ALL motorists and make generalised stereotypical statement about people in cars.... Why should I feel responsible or concerned by the behaviour of ALL cyclists just because I'm on a bike any more than I should be about the general behaviour of any road user?

markhewitt1978

Because driving is 'normal' and something everybody does. However cyclists are an out group, as humans we love to categorise things - makes certain things easier. So cyclists get categorised, the same way as BMW drivers etc.

Headhuunter

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Because driving is 'normal' and something everybody does. However cyclists are an out group, as humans we love to categorise things - makes certain things easier. So cyclists get categorised, the same way as BMW drivers etc.

You're right but that doesn't make it alright that some guy in a car is aggressive towards me on my bike because he saw some guy a few streets back on the pavement, it's the motorists attitude that needs to change as much as the cyclist on the pavement...

The Rookie

I don't think anyone on here is disputing that......it's getting the motorists and the errant cyclists on board that is the problem, and while we still have morons on here advocating RLJ for 'safety' we clearly aren't getting through to the group we have most influence on.

Smiler1968

I often cycle home from work between 2 and 3am. There is nothing on the roads at that time of the morning. In fact I can normally hear the lone car a good 2 or 3 minutes before I see it. At one point on my route there is a turning right into a small industrial estate that has an Asda and a bus station, neither of which are open at 3am. And yet those lights turn through red amber and green all night. I get caught by them almost every time. To be honest I feel like a bit of a pleb sat at a red light at 3 am when I can clearly see and hear that there is nothing around, but sit there I do. Why? There is a specific offence of going through a red light on a cycle. I don't fancy ending up in court. It infuriates me but I'll wait.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&q=50.48 ... England%29

There was no reason for me to put a google earth link on here other than I've never done it before and wanted to know whether I could do it

EssieP

dilemna wrote:

EssieP wrote:

22 posts in 8 years. :shock:

Mustn't rush things.

Douglas74

F*** the lights. Cycling's main attraction is that you don't stop.

moarspeed

Headhuunter wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Because driving is 'normal' and something everybody does. However cyclists are an out group, as humans we love to categorise things - makes certain things easier. So cyclists get categorised, the same way as BMW drivers etc.

You're right but that doesn't make it alright that some guy in a car is aggressive towards me on my bike because he saw some guy a few streets back on the pavement, it's the motorists attitude that needs to change as much as the cyclist on the pavement...

Trouble is, when a driver holds back to avoid cutting up a cyclist, or to avoid a left hook, then said cyclist does this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUrIVilafRk

You can start to see why so many drivers use their vehicles as weapons against the rest of us.
I for one don't want to take the flak for what some idiot did 2 days earlier.

cookeeemonster

MOARspeed wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Because driving is 'normal' and something everybody does. However cyclists are an out group, as humans we love to categorise things - makes certain things easier. So cyclists get categorised, the same way as BMW drivers etc.

You're right but that doesn't make it alright that some guy in a car is aggressive towards me on my bike because he saw some guy a few streets back on the pavement, it's the motorists attitude that needs to change as much as the cyclist on the pavement...

Trouble is, when a driver holds back to avoid cutting up a cyclist, or to avoid a left hook, then said cyclist does this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUrIVilafRk

You can start to see why so many drivers use their vehicles as weapons against the rest of us.
I for one don't want to take the flak for what some idiot did 2 days earlier.

cant see that at all - they are funking criminals and deserve to be locked up and severly beaten.

I'm 100% against RLJ'ers, but I'm much more opposed to chav di*kheads ignoring all the rules of the road and the law whilst trying to murder a stranger.

cookeeemonster

ps. the person that 'holds back to avoid cutting up a cyclist, or to avoid a left hook' was not doing the cyclist a favour, they were obeying the law

moarspeed

CookeeeMonster wrote:

ps. the person that 'holds back to avoid cutting up a cyclist, or to avoid a left hook' was not doing the cyclist a favour, they were obeying the law

But the cyclist wasn't...... And that is the point, we all know that many drivers have degenerated into self appointed road police. Saying "they should" this and "they shouldn't" that, is all very well, but if you kick a dog in the nuts it'll bite your leg off no matter what it should or shouldn't do. Equally a driver shouldn't ram you for being being in the way, but all the should and should nots in the world ain't going to matter a damn when your squished.

cookeeemonster

I dont go with this argument - that a driver can murder me because something he saw someone else doing last week.

99.9999999999999999% of drivers routinely break the highway code, of which the vast majority is speeding and not looking properly before pulling out (also add tailgating, not leaving enough breaking distance, not driving for the conditions, entering cycle lanes/ASL's, basically literally anything they can get away with) and so a cyclist jumping a red light is not an excuse to attack another cyclist who didn't.

And the cyclist in the video - did he jump the red light or mount the pavement illegially (assuming it's not a shared use path). Not saying what he did wasn't dodgy and wrong btw

moarspeed

CookeeeMonster wrote:

I dont go with this argument - that a driver can murder me because something he saw someone else doing last week.

99.9999999999999999% of drivers routinely break the highway code, of which the vast majority is speeding and not looking properly before pulling out (also add tailgating, not leaving enough breaking distance, not driving for the conditions, entering cycle lanes/ASL's, basically literally anything they can get away with) and so a cyclist jumping a red light is not an excuse to attack another cyclist who didn't.

And the cyclist in the video - did he jump the red light or mount the pavement illegially (assuming it's not a shared use path). Not saying what he did wasn't dodgy and wrong btw

Drivers, I treat each one as a potential lunatic.
When driving I assume that when overtaken they will try to stop me, so overtaking manoeuvres are always done as sneakily as possible.
When you realise what 80% of drivers will do to protect that space in front of their car, you realise you are sharing the road with a bunch a lunatics.

There is no doubt that drivers break the rules of the highway code infinitely more often than cyclists (often without even realising it), i'm definitely on the cyclist side when it comes to road use. But the fact is, a car is a 1.5 tonne weapon of destruction and they do give licenses to lunatics, I think it's better for the sake of fellow man, not to do stuff that you know is illegal and will just feed that driver/cyclist hate.

Rage has no logic, so when a driver gets mad at one cyclist, he gets mad at all cyclists. No different to the way we associate certain types of driver to certain types of car. To the uneducated there is only one type of bike, it has two wheels, two pedals and a fleshy thing on top.

supersonic

I treat all road users as potential lunatics! I observe much more poor cycling than driving.

cookeeemonster

MOARspeed wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

I dont go with this argument - that a driver can murder me because something he saw someone else doing last week.

99.9999999999999999% of drivers routinely break the highway code, of which the vast majority is speeding and not looking properly before pulling out (also add tailgating, not leaving enough breaking distance, not driving for the conditions, entering cycle lanes/ASL's, basically literally anything they can get away with) and so a cyclist jumping a red light is not an excuse to attack another cyclist who didn't.

And the cyclist in the video - did he jump the red light or mount the pavement illegially (assuming it's not a shared use path). Not saying what he did wasn't dodgy and wrong btw

Drivers, I treat each one as a potential lunatic.
When driving I assume that when overtaken they will try to stop me, so overtaking manoeuvres are always done as sneakily as possible.
When you realise what 80% of drivers will do to protect that space in front of their car, you realise you are sharing the road with a bunch a lunatics.

There is no doubt that drivers break the rules of the highway code infinitely more often than cyclists (often without even realising it), i'm definitely on the cyclist side when it comes to road use. But the fact is, a car is a 1.5 tonne weapon of destruction and they do give licenses to lunatics, I think it's better for the sake of fellow man, not to do stuff that you know is illegal and will just feed that driver/cyclist hate.

Rage has no logic, so when a driver gets mad at one cyclist, he gets mad at all cyclists. No different to the way we associate certain types of driver to certain types of car. To the uneducated there is only one type of bike, it has two wheels, two pedals and a fleshy thing on top.

to be honest I think we're both on the same page!

asprilla

Headlamp wrote:

IEvery day without fail I reckon between 40%-60% of all cyclists I see jump red lights.

TFL surveys (as opposed to wild guesses) show just under 17% of cyclists jump red lights. They also show just under 5% of motor vehicles do it, and that's before you take ASL intrusion into the equation. Oddly, motorcycles and scooters are amongst the worst motor offenders, whist white vans are fairly low down the list.

Cyclists are the worst offenders, but there is to much going on in general.

jonomc4

as a typical driver and cyclist - I know the amount of time I speed in the car is far far more than the times I go through a red light (which basically I don't do).

Before asking cyclist why they go through red lights why don't drivers ask themselves how many times they speed?

superkenners

I wonder if there is a tfl bus driver forum with endless threads about jumping red lights???