Jumping red Lights

sandhun

Just seen this comment posted on another thread:

I openly admit I still ride like a kid when it comes to lights and often go through a red or bump on to the footpath when traffic builds up

While I appreciate your candour, allow me to explain my opinions on this matter:

Please don't jump red lights and don't mount pavements.

The UK (London certainly) is in the midst of a cycling revolution. Having said that, HATRED towards cyclists is at an all time high. One of the main reasons people hate cyclists is because they think we are a bunch of idiots who pick and choose rules as we see fit. How can we (cyclists) possibly expect to gain respect on the roads if we openly flout the rules?!

Motorists are far from perfect - they regularly break laws but in the eyes of the general public CYCLISTS are the worst offenders. Lack of respect on the roads can ultimately translate to lack of safety on the roads - if people see us as red light jumping, pavement mounting idiots who get in their way they're less likely to give a damn about our safety on the roads.

Even if you know it's safe, is it really going to hurt you to wait an extra 10 seconds for that light to go green?

Jumping lights and failing to adhere to the rules gives all cyclists a bad name - PLEASE don't do it!

If you ride on pavements it gives motorists the false belief that we have less entitlement to the road compared to them.

If traffic builds up and the road you're on gets very busy / or if a lane becomes narrow - take the lane! This means you should cycle in the middle of the lane that you're in. Be assertive and get used to glancing over your shoulder. If a lane is narrow, don't be bullied near the kerb - this will only give encouragement to drivers to skim past you at extremely close range. Once the lane widens, move to the left again to allow them to pass.

stephenlinden

Well said.

When I'm in my car (or on my bike) and I see a "cyclist" (well someone on a bike) go through a red light I find it really annoying. Most "real" cyclists will stop and ride as you suggest.

Don't get me started on cycle lanes that either go nowhere, force you to stop for every side road or, as in one I was on recently, release you into traffic on the wrong side of a road with a roundabout. Yes there is on on the other side that puts you in the right place but there's not indication that this will happen and it appears to be two-way until that point.
So this, and the suggested speed restrictions, explains why I am not using the cycle lane.

joecamel

Is there a legal obligation for cyclists to stop at red lights?

kennygalbraith

I'm sure many would agree, my hate is fellow cyclists who don't adhere to the rules of the road. Jumping red lights, having no lights! Riding on pavements. Stick to the rules which are there for everyones protection.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trave ... light.html

gavsman

joecamel wrote:

Is there a legal obligation for cyclists to stop at red lights?

https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-5 ... w-59-to-71

sandhun

joecamel wrote:

Is there a legal obligation for cyclists to stop at red lights?

Absolutely. See Gavsman's link if in doubt.

Jumping red lights or cycling on pavements can land you with a £30 fine.

Some cops tend not to enforce these rules but as more and more people take to cycling this is starting to change. In certain parts of the country you will be fined for these offences.

One other thing - Stephenlinden made a good point about cycle lanes in this country. Many of them are terribly designed. They are a careless afterthought by people in the council who have no real clue about cycling infrastucture. By all means use them if you feel safer but you're still perfectly entitled to use the road even if a cycle lane exists.

terryhughes

As the author on another post that opened this with the quotes, point taken.

As I said I have not been on a bike for years so it's eye opening to see the views of other more serious cyclists. I will make a conscious effort not to cycle like a kid tonight on my way home and journeys in the future.

Thanks for your comments.

cookeeemonster

Yep I totally agree about red lights and sticking to the rules. There's no excuse, many of us ride large commuting distances yet still stop at red lights..yet I've seen posts on here from people who do a quarter of my commute yet give the ol' 'adds too much time' excuse. They're idiots.

And this thread will run and run with neither side changing their mind just trading insults

EDIT: fair play to Terry above for doing the opposite - he posted that while I was writing this - you've disproved my point before I've even made it!

Mr.Duck

sandhun wrote:

Jumping red lights or cycling on pavements can land you with a £30 fine.

Quite near where I live, there is a road with a red painted cycle lane on the side, and as it comes up to a pelican crossing, the cycle lane ends with a 90 degree left arrow saying get on the bloody pavement. Then a few meters later and just after the pelican crossing, the cycle lane resumes. So you are clearly expected to hop on the pavement to bypass the lights. Explain this madness :x

Runtothehills

Mr.Duck wrote:

sandhun wrote:

Jumping red lights or cycling on pavements can land you with a £30 fine.

Quite near where I live, there is a road with a red painted cycle lane on the side, and as it comes up to a pelican crossing, the cycle lane ends with a 90 degree left arrow saying get on the bloody pavement. Then a few meters later and just after the pelican crossing, the cycle lane resumes. So you are clearly expected to hop on the pavement to bypass the lights. Explain this madness :x

At a guess a lot of people complained that cyclists were ignoring the red light and being a danger to pedestrians. I'm sure a couple of contraflow bike lanes on one way streets around me are their because it's easier to make something official. Instead of going to the trouble of enforcing the law they just put in a different option. Also it will go to their quota of bike lanes for the year.

chris_bass

do we really need to go over this again!?

sandhun

Chris Bass wrote:

do we really need to go over this again!?

As a new contributor here, I honestly, I had no idea that some people on a cycling forum would genuinely advocate red light jumping.

Kudos to TerryHughes for having the maturity to change his opinion on the matter.

Nobody else has come forward to say they think it's OK to jump reds. If anyone else does confess to doing it I'd be interested in hearing their justification.

EssieP

sandhun wrote:

Just seen this comment posted on another thread:
Jumping lights and failing to adhere to the rules gives all cyclists a bad name
- PLEASE don't do it!

No it does not.
You are wrong about this, I do not have a bad name because of the bahaviour of cyclists in a city far from here. In fact, I do not have a bad name at all. :!:

chris_bass

sandhun wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

do we really need to go over this again!?

As a new contributor here, I honestly, I had no idea that some people on a cycling forum would genuinely advocate red light jumping.

Kudos to TerryHughes for having the maturity to change his opinion on the matter.

Nobody else has come forward to say they think it's OK to jump reds. If anyone else does confess to doing it I'd be interested in hearing their justification.

Its been done to death! same old arguments come out, and it goes on for pages and pages! try searching and you'll see!!

I would also steer clear of posting about helmets!!

cookeeemonster

Chris Bass wrote:

sandhun wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

do we really need to go over this again!?

As a new contributor here, I honestly, I had no idea that some people on a cycling forum would genuinely advocate red light jumping.

Kudos to TerryHughes for having the maturity to change his opinion on the matter.

Nobody else has come forward to say they think it's OK to jump reds. If anyone else does confess to doing it I'd be interested in hearing their justification.

Its been done to death! same old arguments come out, and it goes on for pages and pages! try searching and you'll see!!

I would also steer clear of posting about helmets!!

ANYONE WHO DOES/DOESN'T WEAR A HELMET IS A PEADO!!!!! :P

Regarding the RLJ thing for the last time...my brother was in Halfords the other day and heard the salesman telling a customer that 'at least on a bike you can weave in and out of traffic and ignore red lights' - unbelievable!!

Also he told my brother that he (the salesman) should get a bike really as he hasn't ridden one since he was a kid.

Go Halfords!!!

sandhun

Oh OK, fair enough apologies for going over old ground. However, the way I see it, there's no real argument to be had here.

If you think it's OK to jump red lights as a cyclist you're an idiot. In fact, you're not even a cyclist. You're just an idiot who happens to be riding a bike.

One only needs to look on a social networking site such as Twitter - people moan about cyclists frequently, with the main gripe being that "they jump red lights". People tend to generalise. They see a few cyclists do it then make the assumption that we all do it. It's frustrating that a minority of morons give us all a bad name.

DexDexterBMX

Word

Just getting into this lark. I used to be reckless as f**k but riding my bike more and more gives me a more spiritual outlook on life.

I try to wave at everyone that does me a good deed and stick to the rules.

Do the right thing.

sandhun wrote:

Just seen this comment posted on another thread:

I openly admit I still ride like a kid when it comes to lights and often go through a red or bump on to the footpath when traffic builds up

While I appreciate your candour, allow me to explain my opinions on this matter:

Please don't jump red lights and don't mount pavements.

The UK (London certainly) is in the midst of a cycling revolution. Having said that, HATRED towards cyclists is at an all time high. One of the main reasons people hate cyclists is because they think we are a bunch of idiots who pick and choose rules as we see fit. How can we (cyclists) possibly expect to gain respect on the roads if we openly flout the rules?!

Motorists are far from perfect - they regularly break laws but in the eyes of the general public CYCLISTS are the worst offenders. Lack of respect on the roads can ultimately translate to lack of safety on the roads - if people see us as red light jumping, pavement mounting idiots who get in their way they're less likely to give a damn about our safety on the roads.

Even if you know it's safe, is it really going to hurt you to wait an extra 10 seconds for that light to go green?

Jumping lights and failing to adhere to the rules gives all cyclists a bad name - PLEASE don't do it!

If you ride on pavements it gives motorists the false belief that we have less entitlement to the road compared to them.

If traffic builds up and the road you're on gets very busy / or if a lane becomes narrow - take the lane! This means you should cycle in the middle of the lane that you're in. Be assertive and get used to glancing over your shoulder. If a lane is narrow, don't be bullied near the kerb - this will only give encouragement to drivers to skim past you at extremely close range. Once the lane widens, move to the left again to allow them to pass.

joecamel

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... us-4729068

BigLights

I don't generally run reds, but I do when there is a demonstrable safety benefit. There is only one such example on my way home. This was vindicated a few months ago when a traffic officer pulled me over on his motorbike. I literally walked him through the scenario and he ended up conceding that this was, whilst illegal, a not unreasonable approach. Nice chap.

On another note I got lambasted by a pedestrian for running a GREEN light this morning. WTF?? 6.50am, the Strand Eastbound, zipping along, and this guy unleashes the full barrage of vocabularly. that's a first.

Bustacapp

I ride through red lights and bump up onto pavements myself. As long as I don't inconvenience any motorists I will continue to do so.

slowbike

BigLights wrote:

I don't generally run reds, but I do when there is a demonstrable safety benefit. There is only one such example on my way home. This was vindicated a few months ago when a traffic officer pulled me over on his motorbike. I literally walked him through the scenario and he ended up conceding that this was, whilst illegal, a not unreasonable approach. Nice chap.

Wanna walk it through on here? I'd be interested to know ... as the only examples I can think of are those that are stuck on red and you'd end up going nowhere if you didn't bypass them - car or bike!

sandhun

Bustacapp wrote:

I ride through red lights and bump up onto pavements myself. As long as I don't inconvenience any motorists I will continue to do so.

This is extremely selfish behaviour. You're the 'idiot on a bike' type I referred to earlier.

Laws are their for everyone. What makes you any different?

rolf_f

CookeeeMonster wrote:

ANYONE WHO DOES/DOESN'T WEAR A HELMET IS A PEADO!!!!! :P

I fail to see what not wearing a helmet or wearing a helmet has to do with a liking for small, round, green vegetables!

sandhun wrote:

Bustacapp wrote:

I ride through red lights and bump up onto pavements myself. As long as I don't inconvenience any motorists I will continue to do so.

This is extremely selfish behaviour. You're the 'idiot on a bike' type I referred to earlier.

Laws are their for everyone. What makes you any different?

Don't get stressed about Bustacapp. He was slightly starved of oxygen at birth!

Bustacapp

sandhun wrote:

Bustacapp wrote:

I ride through red lights and bump up onto pavements myself. As long as I don't inconvenience any motorists I will continue to do so.

This is extremely selfish behaviour. You're the 'idiot on a bike' type I referred to earlier.

Laws are their for everyone. What makes you any different?

Actually in the town where I commute the pavement cycle paths have a lowered kerb built specifically for 'bumping up' from the roads. And if I'm not inconveniencing anyone then how am I being selfish?

sandhun

And if I'm not inconveniencing anyone then how am I being selfish?

I'm really surprised you have to ask this question. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you an explanation.

1) If you jump red lights or mount pavements when it suits you, it frustrates other road users. You seem to be under the illusion that motorists are grateful that you're jumping lights or going onto pavements. What most of them are actually thinking is "why do we have to abide by rules when cyclists can pick & choose the rules they want?"

2) Unless it's a 'shared use path' it's illegal to cycle on them. They're for pedestrians. If you're cycling on it, you're incoveniencing them.

3) It's a legal requirement to stop at red lights. Others obey the law, why can't you?

If you look at the bigger picture you're actually not doing anyone any favours - except maybe yourself since you probably get to your destination slightly quicker. You're giving cyclists a bad name all because of your selfishness.

Hopefully you can see the point I'm making here and have the maturity to acknowledge that you're being selfish by jumping reds. If not, then I'm sure you'll eventually learn the hard way when you start receiving fines for jumping reds - it might not happen to you straight away, but it will happen.

BigLights

Slowbike wrote:

BigLights wrote:

I don't generally run reds, but I do when there is a demonstrable safety benefit. There is only one such example on my way home. This was vindicated a few months ago when a traffic officer pulled me over on his motorbike. I literally walked him through the scenario and he ended up conceding that this was, whilst illegal, a not unreasonable approach. Nice chap.

Wanna walk it through on here? I'd be interested to know ... as the only examples I can think of are those that are stuck on red and you'd end up going nowhere if you didn't bypass them - car or bike!

well, there is a road on the way home which has 1 lane straight on, and 1 lane right turn. The greens are on slightly different filters (ie, the RH is delayed). The Right Hand lane, which I need to use, goes 90 degrees right but there is then, about 30 metres further, a left hand bend with a kerb that juts out which means that if you set of at the same time as cars, you will get squeezed there. So what I do is go into the middle of the junction on the straight ahead only light (only the traffic coming the other direction is also on green, and they cannot turn right). When the lights are changing I will charge ahead so I reach the aforementioned kerb and can take my lane...for my own safety.

I view this the same way as 'taking my lane' whenever the road narrows enough to make passing me in a car unfeasible/dangerous, such as a pedestrian island for example. I have zero guilt about doing this, or running a red such as the above, as it will at a maximum inconvenience a driver by all of 3 seconds after which I will catch up to them anyway at the next lights/traffic jam, and I will admit that I am arrogant enough to believe that my life is more valuable than 3 seconds of someone else's time.

Bustacapp

1) If you jump red lights or mount pavements when it suits you, it frustrates other road users. You seem to be under the illusion that motorists are grateful that you're jumping lights or going onto pavements. What most of them are actually thinking is "why do we have to abide by rules when cyclists can pick & choose the rules they want?"

I don't really care what other road users are thinking. They can mind their own business so long as I'm not affecting them. Sometimes going through a red light can put myself out of harms way. How about you look after yourself and spend less time worrying what others might think?

2) Unless it's a 'shared use path' it's illegal to cycle on them. They're for pedestrians. If you're cycling on it, you're incoveniencing them.

It is a 'shared use path' actually and there are lowered parts so you can access them directly from the road.

3) It's a legal requirement to stop at red lights. Others obey the law, why can't you?

I can. And do. But not all the time.

Hopefully you can see the point I'm making here and have the maturity to acknowledge that you're being selfish by jumping reds. If not, then I'm sure you'll eventually learn the hard way when you start receiving fines for jumping reds - it might not happen to you straight away, but it will happen.

If I get a fine then that's my problem.

sandhun

Bustacapp, it's all about you isn't it? In all honestly you sound like the type of moronic selfish idiot that is loathed by 99% of other road users.

Nice to see that you're backtracking on the red light jumping.

If you can't follow the rules of the road like the rest of us do I suggest you take a bus instead. Cheers.

slowbike

BigLights wrote:

big explanation

Ah - thanks ...

So it's a right turn filter that you "jump" ... or rather, just put yourself ahead of the traffic so you don't get squeezed .. I guess there's no "taking the lane" at the lights because the cars would just go round you on the junction.
Technically speaking you should choose a different route or walk your bike across on the pedestrian crossing, but I can see why you'd choose the route you do.

Although not RLJ I do try and wave a thanks to any vehicle that has waited for me (when others don't normally) - as not only is it a common courtesy but I think it also helps dispel the myth that cyclists (or rather - roadies) are an arrogant bunch of whatevers who believe the road is there for them only. ... yes I do get to wave quite a bit!

supersonic

Always need to look out for pedestrians. You may decide to go through a red light, but if there is a ped crossing further up that is saying 'green, safe to cross', and then a kid legs it across the road suddenly...

I never go through red lights for this reason (and many others!), because many peds take the red to mean safe (often not on crossings either), and may not see a bike nor hear it.

Headhuunter

Here we go again... It's like a right of passage for newbies on this forum - register, say hello and then start a thread about red light jumping like it's never, ever been discussed before. Try doing a search across the commuting section, there are literally hundreds of threads discussing red lights... I took part in a few of them years ago but I'm bored of it now....