This london hacking attack?

Bozman

There are nuttters and mental folk in all faiths and walks of life, but there doesn't seem to be an endless line of them quite willing to blow themselves up and kill children etc, all in the name of Allah.

You've got to feel sorry for your average Joe Muslim because he's getting the shite and this issue isn't going to disappear.

ballysmate

Rick Chasey wrote:

Bozman wrote:

I can remember a conversation with a Sikh when I was an apprentice way back in 1984, the subject of Muslims came up and the guy just said, give them an inch and they'll take a mile, they won't stop until they control this country.

Well that settles it. :roll:

He does seem to have a point though doesn't he?
To me, all religion is bunkum but Islam seems to be unique in such that its holy book, directs its followers to commit violence. It instructs its followers to subjugate followers of other faiths.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Some followers take this literally and therefore feel justified in their actions. BTW, People of the Book refer to Christians and Jews, the Book, being the Bible.

As I said, I regard all religion as bunkum and long for the day when people no longer slavishly follow teachings, written centuries ago.

rick_chasey

Bozman wrote:

There are nuttters and mental folk in all faiths and walks of life, but there doesn't seem to be an endless line of them quite willing to blow themselves up and kill children etc, all in the name of Allah.

You've got to feel sorry for your average Joe Muslim because he's getting the shite and this issue isn't going to disappear.

Endless?

You've got Brevik for starters on the Christian side.

Point is this. You have to be a nutter to want to kill randomers. At that point the justification is irrelevant. The problem isn't the faith. It's the nutter bit.

You can endlessly quote violent bits from all sorts of literature, from the koran to the Bible to communist manifestos.

I seem to remember the most pervasive and deadly terrorism 30 years ago was relating to Northern Ireland, right?

Listen to the chap in that video. You can't just ignore that because it doesn't suit your narrative.

rick_chasey

davisee wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Explains what?

The motive for what happened on the day in question.

He could have easily quoted the bible.

Matthew 5:38 is 'eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth'
Or he could have used this:
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants."   (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.   (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
     On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord.  Anyone who does work on that day, shall be put to death.  You shall not even light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.   (Exodus 35:2-3 NAB)

I mean take your pick. That's only the ones I could be bothered to find.

dmclite-3.0

Ben6899 wrote:

I never said flying the St George Cross makes you extreme or racist automatically.

That used to be the case with the Swastika, but now it's not debatable. The St George Cross is going the same way because of how the EDL and a niche swathe of soldiers use it.

Can you back this up please ?

ballysmate

Rick Chasey wrote:

Point is this. You have to be a nutter to want to kill randomers. At that point the justification is irrelevant. The problem isn't the faith. It's the nutter bit.

You can endlessly quote violent bits from all sorts of literature, from the koran to the Bible to communist manifestos.

I seem to remember the most pervasive and deadly terrorism 30 years ago was relating to Northern Ireland, right?

Listen to the chap in that video. You can't just ignore that because it doesn't suit your narrative.

You do not have to be a nutter at all. You are looking at it from the point of view of a western liberal. From our viewpoint it seems incomprehensible but from the viewpoint of a radical Muslim, it is fully rational and can be justified, as demonstrated by this perpetrator. He thought his actions were justified.

The chap in the video is rational, reasonable and talks sense. The problem is the radical Muslims don't identify with him nor his views.

It would seem that radical Islam and western liberalism are not compatible, the radicals' aim being the destruction of our society.

Just heard on the news that a tenth person has been arrested in connection with conspiring in this act of terrorism, so although no-one has been convicted yet, how does that fit in with your lone nutter scenario?

tailwindhome

Achill Island joins axis of evil...

Ben6899

"An eye for an eye", "a tooth for a tooth"?

Wrong book, mate.

dmclite-3.0

dmclite-3.0 wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

I never said flying the St George Cross makes you extreme or racist automatically.

That used to be the case with the Swastika, but now it's not debatable. The St George Cross is going the same way because of how the EDL and a niche swathe of soldiers use it.

Can you back this up please ?

Still no back up on this sentence, tsk, tsk.

Frank the tank

Ben6899 wrote:

"An eye for an eye", "a tooth for a tooth"?

Wrong book, mate.

Ghandi said................An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

tailwindhome

There is always hope

daviesee

Rick Chasey wrote:

I mean take your pick. That's only the ones I could be bothered to find.

My pick wouldn't matter. My opinion doesn't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter.
All that matters is what is in the perpetrators head.
You have read that. I can't put words in his mouth or head.

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Point is this. You have to be a nutter to want to kill randomers. At that point the justification is irrelevant. The problem isn't the faith. It's the nutter bit.

You can endlessly quote violent bits from all sorts of literature, from the koran to the Bible to communist manifestos.

I seem to remember the most pervasive and deadly terrorism 30 years ago was relating to Northern Ireland, right?

Listen to the chap in that video. You can't just ignore that because it doesn't suit your narrative.

You do not have to be a nutter at all. You are looking at it from the point of view of a western liberal. From our viewpoint it seems incomprehensible but from the viewpoint of a radical Muslim, it is fully rational and can be justified, as demonstrated by this perpetrator. He thought his actions were justified.

The chap in the video is rational, reasonable and talks sense. The problem is the radical Muslims don't identify with him nor his views.

It would seem that radical Islam and western liberalism are not compatible, the radicals' aim being the destruction of our society.

Just heard on the news that a tenth person has been arrested in connection with conspiring in this act of terrorism, so although no-one has been convicted yet, how does that fit in with your lone nutter scenario?

Never said it was a lone nutter. Just said it was a nutter. 70 million people in the Uk, a few of the will be nutters, and some might even club together.

The defining feature of these people as you describe them though, is the "radical" bit, not the Muslium bit.

It's the radical bit we should be focusing on. Not the Muslim bit. We can all pick radicals from all faiths and creeds who are a bunch of nutters and do unspeakable things. I've named a few and I don't doubt there are many more out there.

Focussing on the muslim bit misses the point and exacerbates the problem.

ballysmate

Never said it was a lone nutter. Just said it was a nutter. 70 million people in the Uk, a few of the will be nutters, and some might even club together.

You implied the perpetrators were loners when you likened them to Anders Breivik, who seems to have been a lone wolf.
These Muslim terrorists do not work on their own, they are part of cells, some of which receive training, here or abroad. The security services, be it MI5, Special Branch or whoever can not identify and monitor all suspected terrorists as the number is constantly growing. If you think they are just 'nutters' who by happenstance somehow club together, you are deluded.
You say we should not focus on the 'Muslim' but on the 'radical' bit. But where do you think their view and indoctrination comes from? They learn it from other Muslims, either in the community or at the mosques. The Muslim community is a breeding ground for these people, so of course you have to focus on the 'Muslim bit'
The radicals, terrorist, call them what you will, are spreading like a cancer through the Muslim community. The vast majority of Muslims are respectable, law abiding people, and in that respect want to live in peace and harmony with the rest of society, but Muslim society must do more to cut out this cancer, before it is too late. They can make a bigger difference than anyone else.
Burying your head in the sand or not wanting to upset people of faith's sensibilities will get us nowhere.
Please don't think that this is an anti Muslim rant, it certainly is not. Just pointing out that the roots of the problem lie in the Islamic communities and they must do what they can to help to eradicate it. After all, they have as much to lose as anyone else.

Pituophis

Ballysmate wrote:

Never said it was a lone nutter. Just said it was a nutter. 70 million people in the Uk, a few of the will be nutters, and some might even club together.

You implied the perpetrators were loners when you likened them to Anders Breivik, who seems to have been a lone wolf.
These Muslim terrorists do not work on their own, they are part of cells, some of which receive training, here or abroad. The security services, be it MI5, Special Branch or whoever can not identify and monitor all suspected terrorists as the number is constantly growing. If you think they are just 'nutters' who by happenstance somehow club together, you are deluded.
You say we should not focus on the 'Muslim' but on the 'radical' bit. But where do you think their view and indoctrination comes from? They learn it from other Muslims, either in the community or at the mosques. The Muslim community is a breeding ground for these people, so of course you have to focus on the 'Muslim bit'
The radicals, terrorist, call them what you will, are spreading like a cancer through the Muslim community. The vast majority of Muslims are respectable, law abiding people, and in that respect want to live in peace and harmony with the rest of society, but Muslim society must do more to cut out this cancer, before it is too late. They can make a bigger difference than anyone else.
Burying your head in the sand or not wanting to upset people of faith's sensibilities will get us nowhere.
Please don't think that this is an anti Muslim rant, it certainly is not. Just pointing out that the roots of the problem lie in the Islamic communities and they must do what they can to help to eradicate it. After all, they have as much to lose as anyone else.

A pretty well put post which sums up the situation accurately
However it will be completely disregarded, as you've been typecast as a racist, and you're views are therefore of no consequence. All because that's the easiest option rather than actually trying to find a solution to a problem that is in danger of snowballing out of control. :roll:

seanoconn

Caught a glimpse of ITV news last night. A reporter had spent a week tracking down a relative (female cousin) of one of the suspects in Nigeria. The startled relative said she felt for the family of the victim....

Brilliant work ITV :roll:

Frank the tank

Ballysmate wrote:

Never said it was a lone nutter. Just said it was a nutter. 70 million people in the Uk, a few of the will be nutters, and some might even club together.

You implied the perpetrators were loners when you likened them to Anders Breivik, who seems to have been a lone wolf.
These Muslim terrorists do not work on their own, they are part of cells, some of which receive training, here or abroad. The security services, be it MI5, Special Branch or whoever can not identify and monitor all suspected terrorists as the number is constantly growing. If you think they are just 'nutters' who by happenstance somehow club together, you are deluded.
You say we should not focus on the 'Muslim' but on the 'radical' bit. But where do you think their view and indoctrination comes from? They learn it from other Muslims, either in the community or at the mosques. The Muslim community is a breeding ground for these people, so of course you have to focus on the 'Muslim bit'
The radicals, terrorist, call them what you will, are spreading like a cancer through the Muslim community. The vast majority of Muslims are respectable, law abiding people, and in that respect want to live in peace and harmony with the rest of society, but Muslim society must do more to cut out this cancer, before it is too late. They can make a bigger difference than anyone else.
Burying your head in the sand or not wanting to upset people of faith's sensibilities will get us nowhere.
Please don't think that this is an anti Muslim rant, it certainly is not. Just pointing out that the roots of the problem lie in the Islamic communities and they must do what they can to help to eradicate it. After all, they have as much to lose as anyone else.

I would agree with that. The radicals have to be irradicated with the help of the muslim community alienating muslims will achieve nothing other than create a centre of recruitment for the radical element in their community. It has to be a two pronged attack from our national security services and from within the muslim community. That's what I alluded to in an earlier post when I said they (the muslims) should be more active at highlighting such people rather than just trying to distance themselves from them after the event.

Cleat Eastwood

The human voice is the most important instrument at our disposal. Yet it is one of the most difficult to understand or define. You either hear it, or you don’t. It either moves you, or it leaves you cold. It is more that just a sound. It is the soul itself. Neil Diamond, 1974.

ballysmate

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

The human voice is the most important instrument at our disposal. Yet it is one of the most difficult to understand or define. You either hear it, or you don’t. It either moves you, or it leaves you cold. It is more that just a sound. It is the soul itself. Neil Diamond, 1974.

Sorry Cleat, did you say something?

seanoconn

Ballysmate wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

The human voice is the most important instrument at our disposal. Yet it is one of the most difficult to understand or define. You either hear it, or you don’t. It either moves you, or it leaves you cold. It is more that just a sound. It is the soul itself. Neil Diamond, 1974.

Sorry Cleat, did you say something?

All I heard was SWEET CAROLINE... Ba Ba Ba Ba

ballysmate

seanoconn wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

The human voice is the most important instrument at our disposal. Yet it is one of the most difficult to understand or define. You either hear it, or you don’t. It either moves you, or it leaves you cold. It is more that just a sound. It is the soul itself. Neil Diamond, 1974.

Sorry Cleat, did you say something?

All I heard was SWEET CAROLINE... Ba Ba Ba Ba

Your workmates must think you are fecking nuts. Reading Cleat's post with your arms in the air, swaying from side to side.

seanoconn

Ballysmate wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

The human voice is the most important instrument at our disposal. Yet it is one of the most difficult to understand or define. You either hear it, or you don’t. It either moves you, or it leaves you cold. It is more that just a sound. It is the soul itself. Neil Diamond, 1974.

Sorry Cleat, did you say something?

All I heard was SWEET CAROLINE... Ba Ba Ba Ba

Your workmates must think you are ******* nuts. Reading Cleat's post with your arms in the air, swaying from side to side.

They're all up with me
Hands, touchin' hands
Reachin' out, touchin' me touchin' you...

Anyhoo, back on topic. The post Mortem is back. Now I'm no expert but....

Pituophis

Coming from the same town as the murdered soldier, Lee Rigby, I was quite happy to stumble upon a massed rally of bikers and scooterboys last night all gathered in the town centre, to pay their respects and appreciation for a man killed, purely as a representative of the British army.
Virtually everyone there was sporting a flag of St George in some form or another, and there were a lot there!
Now, if we were to follow the set typecast format, you could say that a lot of bikers/hells angels have a reputation for being racist. But then aren't scooterboys/mods famous for their love of ska, indeed "two tone", and a liberal anti racist stance?
So were all these men and women racists, I think not.
Also, they were meeting in the heart of our "kebab triangle" and despite the fact that I personally couldn't see any police presence (though they may have been there in small numbers) there was no suggestion of any trouble at all.
People that say the English national flag is representative of a racist view point are short sighted at best, and encourage normal, sane, none racist English people to adopt an indignant stance against it's removal.

morstar

It's difficult though isn't it. It is quite possible to be proud of the flag whilst not being racist but my personal experience is there is a strong correlation between the two.
Moved to Lancs just under 10 years ago and I find far more overt racism than in Nottingham where I grew up. I think this is both reflective of and contributory to far less integrated communities.
Inevitably, the people who frequently bang on about Englishness, the flag, the Polish and immigrants in general manage to avoid overtly racist comments 95% of the time. Every once in a while, they just let it slip and it all comes out.
Unfortunately, try as I desperately may to avoid pre-judging, my racist radar warms up considerably at the sight of the George cross.