650B...ollocks?

YeehaaMcgee

felix.london wrote:

Is that another reason to go tubeless

Well, only if you're on acid, and the synaesthesia is leading you down some highly improbable paths of thinking.

felix.london

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

felix.london wrote:

Is that another reason to go tubeless

Well, only if you're on acid, and the synaesthesia is leading you down some highly improbable paths of thinking.

Or just get enough inner tubes to last until 26ers are back in fashion

YeehaaMcgee

I don't think puncture repair kits are any different for 29ers.

pesky_jones

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

I don't think puncture repair kits are any different for 29ers.

Probally about a quid more

supersonic

I worked it out as 11% more - as the diameter of the tubes is 11% more, you need 11% more glue and patches.

YeehaaMcgee

felix.london

supersonic wrote:

I worked it out as 11% more - as the diameter of the tubes is 11% more, you need 11% more glue and patches.

surely you'd need 11% bigger patches

29er puncture repair kits...this time next year will be millionaires $$$

Chunkers1980

"surely you'd need 11% bigger patches"

Nope a hole's a hole.

YeehaaMcgee

Chunkers1980 wrote:

"surely you'd need 11% bigger patches"

Nope a hole's a hole.

Now that's the kind of opener that makes me wish this was in the crudcatcher.

supersonic

Nowt worse than a hole in your rubber.

Kowalski675

felix.london wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

felix.london wrote:

Is that another reason to go tubeless

Well, only if you're on acid, and the synaesthesia is leading you down some highly improbable paths of thinking.

Or just get enough inner tubes to last until 26ers are back in fashion

Aye, give it a decade and the manufacturers will be pushing 26ers as the new big thing, lol...

Penylope

Hmm, SantaCruz seem to be giving the larger wheel sizes a good punt though, to the point they are culling most (if not all) 26" wheelers.
Heckler just gone to 650b, with the old one discontinued, but more interestingly the Superlight, Blur XC, Blur LT2 Blur LTc and also the chameleon have disappeared from the US website. Only the Blur TRa/TRc and Nomad are left in their 26" range :shock:

With Orange also pushing the 'innovation' envelope by fitting 650b wheels to their Five, the writing on the wall for 26" wheels is getting bigger by the day. The 29er Trek Fuel EX' are already in the LBS as well.

Talking with them today, they are hardly selling anything with a 26" wheel.

Well, except to me, jumped in a bit quick and nabbed a bargain 26er FS frame from SC, thinking on the basis that if they are going to discontinue bikes/frames then they should be shifting off old stock for a decent price.

perhaps this could be a better way of looking at it: if you are in the market for a new bike and are not swayed by the 'new' wheel sizes then start asking if there are any clearance deals on the 26" kit, even fork prices seem to be affected, picked up some Rev RCT3's for £360 from on one for the build, bargain

ddraver

For a company that don't seem to believe in 650b, they do seem to be going all in...

YeehaaMcgee

Penylope wrote:

The 29er Trek Fuel EX' are already in the LBS as well.

Talking with them today, they are hardly selling anything with a 26" wheel.

Well, when the manufacturers decide to go almost exclusively 29er or 650B, of course they're going to sell more than 26ers, because there there's virtually no new 26" wheeled bikes.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

lawman

ddraver wrote:

For a company that don't seem to believe in 650b, they do seem to be going all in...

Whether you believe in it or not, what's gonna sell better is going make more financial sense, these guys are trying to run a business after all. It could be the best bike in the world but if the people actually in the market don't like it, there's no point in making it from the companies point of view. I still don't get the resistance to 650b, 26er's might be growing fewer by the day, but people don't change bikes every 6 months. Parts are still gonna be out there for years to come and because its "old" it'll be cheaper than before. If anyones coming out of the wheelsize debate best, I'd say its the die-hard or stubborn 26er fans. It's going cheap and surely that can only be good news for people who want 26ers? Just because we have more choice doesn't mean its bad, as far as I'm concerned, more choice is better and helps the industry thrive.

YeehaaMcgee

It's not choice though, is it?

lawman

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

It's not choice though, is it?

Depends on the manufacturer, Ibis offer 26, 650b and 29er, Giant are going the same way and as mentioned so are Orange. Still plenty of 26er's out there across all the major disciplines.

YeehaaMcgee

My point is, the choice is being taken away, and you know it.

Penylope

Yep, the choice is being taken from us. The main reason I bought the new frame today was that if I didn't, I would miss out. The model is discontinued, and I've had supposedly the last one in my size in the UK (I had tested the alloy version anyway and was going to get that, but they had sold out).
As Yeehaa said, self fulfilling prophecy, but its happening quicker than a few people would like to admit. Don't get me wrong, I don't think 26" will disappear, but the higher end of the market will dry up, as old models are discontinued and the development (and then 'trickle down' tech) is ploughed into the fashionable sizes of wheel.

Woodmonkey

And then in a few years the next big thing will be 26ers, more nimble and agile, there will be world champs won on the fancy smaller wheels, high end bikes will be brought out, it's almost like it's marketing to sell more bikes! Or am I just getting cynical in old age

rockmonkeysc

Still not many 650B bikes in the downhill world cup. Surely if they were an advantage riders would be all for it and most would be on 650B. Even the new prototype GT that the Athertons are using is 26" and that will be the next production model to replace the Fury.A few other new models such as the Polygon and the Evil are also 650B.
So in the discipline where speed over rough ground counts for a huge amount everyone is sticking with 26"

ddraver

More in the enduro scene, they fit less travel better. I think its also fairly clear that any sort of mountain bike racing relies on speed over rough ground so I think that's pretty irrelevant.

benpinnick

Theres a lot of 650b specific components you need to build a race worthy bike; tyres, forks, wheels etc. All need some serious testing before you go into full racing. I am guessing that 650b will hit the DH scene big next year once they've all had a years worth of testing under their collective belts. Expect to see a few crop up at the more minor races this year though.

YeehaaMcgee

ddraver wrote:

I think its also fairly clear that any sort of mountain bike racing relies on speed over rough ground so I think that's pretty irrelevant.

Not really irrelevant at all.
DH racing is specifically about covering very technical terrain at high speed, the technical demands of XC racing are nowhere near as high.

The Rookie

I would 'expect' that in DH suspension travel is more important than rolling resistance, in XC it is clearly the other way round.

Personally I expect DH to go 650B over the next 2-3 years....I could be wrong, but that is my expectation.

YeehaaMcgee

The Beginner wrote:

I would 'expect' that in DH suspension travel is more important than rolling resistance, in XC it is clearly the other way round.

Yeah, I agree, on the whole.
I also reckon that the size of the obstacles on DH courses mean that a minor scaling up of a wheel will offer no practical advantage. When the rocks ruts and bumps are wheel swallowing chasms, then a slightly bigger wheel will make no difference. Were they to switch to 40" wheels, well, yeah, maybe the current courses would be smoothed out a little bit.

ddraver

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I think its also fairly clear that any sort of mountain bike racing relies on speed over rough ground so I think that's pretty irrelevant.

Not really irrelevant at all.
DH racing is specifically about covering very technical terrain at high speed, the technical demands of XC racing are nowhere near as high.

I know you like to argue Yeeha, but seriously think about what you ve just said...Any sort of MTB racer will optimise how the bike covers technical terrain. For DH it is better to have more travel so 26in wheels are better, but for bikes where more pedalling is needed, more travel is less efficient so the benefits of bigger wheels can be used.

YeehaaMcgee

ddraver wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I think its also fairly clear that any sort of mountain bike racing relies on speed over rough ground so I think that's pretty irrelevant.

Not really irrelevant at all.
DH racing is specifically about covering very technical terrain at high speed, the technical demands of XC racing are nowhere near as high.

I know you like to argue Yeeha, but seriously think about what you ve just said...Any sort of MTB racer will optimise how the bike covers technical terrain. For DH it is better to have more travel so 26in wheels are better, but for bikes where more pedalling is needed, more travel is less efficient so the benefits of bigger wheels can be used.

Me, like to argue? Nothing I've said contradicts what you just said at all
People in glass houses mate.

All I've stated is that the challenge is predominantly technical in nature for DH racers. For XC racers, it's predominantly a test of physical endurance, since the technical aspect is not as great.

lawman

I think the main thing holding 650b back in DH ATM is parts. There simply isn't the dedicated gear to be used effectively, other than Stan's I can't think of any proper 650b DH rims and the tyres are even rarer. Until the gear is there I think we won't be seeing many bikes with bigger wheels. It can be done, but I think the big boys are gonna stick with what they know until 650b is proven on the DH scene and parts are readily available.

Thewaylander

true but also isnt a smaller wheel stronger?

I see a fair few smashed up 26" wheels in DH racels would you want to bring in potentially weaker element?