650B...ollocks?

YeehaaMcgee

In mountain biking. Not road racing. The main shift to bigger wheels is due to manufacturers pushing their new rigs, marketing hype, and "the emperor's new clothes" hype.

Northwind

In related news: Santa Cruz admit it's all cobblers

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

bennett_346

Came across as an arrogant fucker there. If people still want 26 inch wheels because they like them and aren't interested in change why get annoyed at people who are annoyed at you for taking away that option?

YeehaaMcgee

Northwind wrote:

In related news: Santa Cruz admit it's all cobblers

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

Some interesting point in there, and also some misconceptions.
I, for one (and Sonic, I suspect, from his general tone), don't actually oppose 29ers, we just oppose to having the choice taken away.
I don't think I'm alone in that.

ddraver

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

In mountain biking. Not road racing. The main shift to bigger wheels is due to manufacturers pushing their new rigs, marketing hype, and "the emperor's new clothes" hype.

Am i to assume you re having a pop at XC/XCE racing there?

supersonic

I, for one (and Sonic, I suspect, from his general tone), don't actually oppose 29ers, we just oppose to having the choice taken away.

Exactly that.

YeehaaMcgee

ddraver wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

In mountain biking. Not road racing. The main shift to bigger wheels is due to manufacturers pushing their new rigs, marketing hype, and "the emperor's new clothes" hype.

Am i to assume you re having a pop at XC/XCE racing there?

what?

ddraver

never mind...

Kowalski675

Northwind wrote:

In related news: Santa Cruz admit it's all cobblers

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

Interesting read.

97th choice

The idea that 650b (or even 29er) bikes are now the result of giving the customer what they want is a nice little revisionist theory.

felix.london

Northwind wrote:

In related news: Santa Cruz admit it's all cobblers

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

hmmm...interesting indeed, just as I presumed.

"You could make the best bike in the world, but if no one buys it, then what’s the point?"

ddraver

Hmmm good to see yet another balanced, unprejudiced article :roll: This is going to get trotted out every time now isnt it...

YeehaaMcgee

To have a debate, both sides need to be represented. I'm sorry if that offends you in some way.
Also, in a debate, it's possible to have one's ideas changed about a topic. Again, sorry if such an idea seems painful.
Maybe you'd be better off talking to yourself in an unfurnished room if all you want is an echochamber.

ddraver

To be represented is one thing - to only have the options of total over or total hate is another. There are very few properly balanced articles about this subject, I can think of 1 so far...

I don't know why you feel the need to abuse me, are you a bit unsure of yourself?

YeehaaMcgee

It's the rolling eyes. Makes you look dismissive of any view that differs from yours.
There's fanatics and lunatics on both sides, don't dismiss them, they're a vocal outlier, and paying attention to those two extremes can often help you find the rational centre.

ddraver

I dont have a view yet, I'm waiting and seeing....the lack of decent articles that really, as close to scientifically examine as possible the difference is very dissapointing

bennett_346

I could get away with 650b if they didn't feel the need to charge extra because of it, not only on the bikes RRP but things like tyres, aftermarket wheels, etc.

YeehaaMcgee

ddraver wrote:

I dont have a view yet, I'm waiting and seeing....the lack of decent articles that really, as close to scientifically examine as possible the difference is very dissapointing

Does there NEED to be a scientific basis for it? Or just let it be down to user preference? Some people prefer certain tyres, or certain frames, or a certain angle of bar rotation, or stem shapes, or, or, or... The list is endless.
If they were sold honestly, along the lines of "on some trails, 29ers can roll over smaller obstacles better than 26ers", I don't think there would have been as much controversy as what is happening, which is basically "we're all switching to 650B and 29ers, suck it, biatches".

Northwind

ddraver wrote:

Hmmm good to see yet another balanced, unprejudiced article :roll:

Did you not watch the video? The article isn't the interesting part, it's just an editorial (and makes no claim of being unbiased, why should it?)

ddraver

My user preference is for what is the best bike for me - wheels size is a component of that

We don't know if they re being sold honestly yet becasue we ve got no independent scientific basis for it wither way. I do think it's funny that people think that an industry that 99% of the time appears to be unable to decide on anything has managed to organise a worldwide conspiracy to make people buy bikes with bigger wheels. I think it's much more likely that there may be something to 650b wheels that I should consider if/when I buy a new bike

Northwind - no i can't watch the video. Believe it or not it's blocked by Algeria

felix.london

Northwind wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Hmmm good to see yet another balanced, unprejudiced article :roll:

Did you not watch the video? The article isn't the interesting part, it's just an editorial (and makes no claim of being unbiased, why should it?)

indeed. It's not the article, it's the video and the fact that SC have built this bike because that's what people were asking for not because of any "science". Which, as stated in the article is not actually a bad thing but honesty would be better. i.e "you asked for it, we gave it to you" - not all this nonsense that 650B is the sweetspot between proper sorry 26" ( ) wheels and 29ers

97th choice

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Does there NEED to be a scientific basis for it? Or just let it be down to user preference? Some people prefer certain tyres, or certain frames, or a certain angle of bar rotation, or stem shapes, or, or, or... The list is endless.
If they were sold honestly, along the lines of "on some trails, 29ers can roll over smaller obstacles better than 26ers", I don't think there would have been as much controversy as what is happening, which is basically "we're all switching to 650B and 29ers, suck it, biatches".

Both points are correct, I tried several recently and just didn't get on with them. I really wanted to but frankly they bored me, and they were high end specialised and giant models.

Before and afterwards I had a conversation with a specialized rep who initially told me I was riding the future and everything else was crap, then whiffled on about chainstay length and BB height. When I said I didn't like them he got sniffy as if I'd insulted his kids and told me it takes about a month of riding to appreciate the benefits. I don't think that actually enjoying oneself on a bike ever came into the conversation.

Last bike I bought the LBS assistant asked me what riding I did, and steered me away from the bike I wanted to the one that he felt would give me the most fun and suit my needs.

YeehaaMcgee

97th choice wrote:

Last bike I bought the LBS assistant asked me what riding I did, and steered me away from the bike I wanted to the one that he felt would give me the most fun and suit my needs.

That seems fair enough, provided that it was unbiased - which is sometimes isn't

supersonic

To me wheel size is no different to discussing stem size, fork length, spds/flats, full suss/hardttail, etc etc. Apart from with some standards you end up tied into them. I firmly believe that there is no one best overall, and certainly don't believe that bigger is better for anyone. Just different, with some traits you might like. Or not like.

But I detest the fact that staff and manufacturers are pushing people towards bigger wheels and seemingly want to get rid of 26ers for good. I know it is not feasible for shops to stock 3 wheel sizes of every model due to space constraints, after all, stems and pedals are rather smaller ;-). But many are willing to stock 2 sizes. I don't see why it should not be 26 and 29, something with a bit of difference, not this 12.5mm radius change that suddenly, after 30 years, is deemed to be the best by some manufacturers/staff/marketeers.

97th choice

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

That seems fair enough, provided that it was unbiased - which is sometimes isn't

True, you need to know enough to spot the BS, but he did steer me towards a cheaper bike, justified why... then price matched it with the cheapest one he could find on the Internet, so by then I was willing to have his babies. Metaphorically speaking.

97th choice

supersonic wrote:

To me wheel size is no different to discussing stem size, fork length, spds/flats, full suss/hardttail, etc etc. Apart from with some standards you end up tied into them. I firmly believe that there is no one best overall, and certainly don't believe that bigger is better for anyone. Just different, with some traits you might like. Or not like.

But I detest the fact that staff and manufacturers are pushing people towards bigger wheels and seemingly want to get rid of 26ers for good. I know it is not feasible for shops to stock 3 wheel sizes of every model due to space constraints, after all, stems and pedals are rather smaller ;-). But many are willing to stock 2 sizes. I don't see why it should not be 26 and 29, something with a bit of difference, not this 12.5mm radius change that suddenly, after 30 years, is deemed to be the best by some manufacturers/staff/marketeers.

I would really love to see the sales statistics on 29/27.5/26. At some point it will have to show which wheel size will (may) die

supersonic

If they force the market and stop selling 26ers... then we have no choice. Sadly I feel it will end up that way.

Kowalski675

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

what is happening, which is basically "we're all switching to 650B and 29ers, suck it, biatches".

That would seem to be about the size (no pun intended) of it, unfortunately.

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

If they force the market and stop selling 26ers... then we have no choice. Sadly I feel it will end up that way.

I think you're right.

felix.london

Kowalski675 wrote:

supersonic wrote:

If they force the market and stop selling 26ers... then we have no choice. Sadly I feel it will end up that way.

I think you're right.

Is that another reason to go tubeless on my four (whoops, how did that happen?) 26" wheeled bikes?...that and stock up on some spare 26" tyres...