Giro Stage 4 - Spoiler Thread

Richmond Racer

RichN95 wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I do think that riders do sometimes take advantage of a crash if they think they can get away with soft pedalling the last couple of KMs.

Wiggins being one of them.
He should have learned his lesson from Oman.

Hmmm. Fair point.

Paul 8v

I blame sideshow bob on the left for Wiggins being penalised.

That's a bit rubbish really, after the advantage he got in the TTT to be level now with Hesjedal and below Nibali, I was hoping that would be his buffer against any bonus seconds Nibali acquired.

jerry3571

Milton50 wrote:

Wiggins certainly does come across a tad lackadaisical on occasion during a race.

Anyway, the stage was a slightly too long but the racing has been great so far.

I do like to moan about Wiggo sitting too far back in the last few k's. Evans has taken almost half a minute out of Wiggins with little effort. Ryder was up there at the finish and that's where a top rider needs to be. All the biggest tour riders are smarter riders than Wiggins; LA in his wins (hee hee) was hardly ever caught out at the back of a group like this. Wiggo's been caught out looking at the scenery again. :?

above_the_cows

Paul 8v wrote:

I blame sideshow bob on the left for Wiggins being penalised.

That's a bit rubbish really, after the advantage he got in the TTT to be level now with Hesjedal and below Nibali, I was hoping that would be his buffer against any bonus seconds Nibali acquired.

Holy crap I didn't know Battaglin was in Mars Attacks!

Richmond Racer

jerry3571 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Wiggins certainly does come across a tad lackadaisical on occasion during a race.

Anyway, the stage was a slightly too long but the racing has been great so far.

I do like to moan about Wiggo sitting too far back in the last few k's. Evans has taken almost half a minute out of Wiggins with little effort. Ryder was up there at the finish and that's where a top rider needs to be. All the biggest tour riders are smarter riders than Wiggins; LA in his wins (hee hee) was hardly ever caught out at the back of a group like this. Wiggo's been caught out looking at the scenery again. :?

Have you got that rocket for putting up Bradders that you mentioned yesterday, Jerry...race jury said according to all the transponders he was already behind when the crash happened

iainf72

So the jury say he was already behind at 3km to go.

Jury run by a Frenchman - Obviously protecting the Italian interests.

yourpaceormine

iainf72 wrote:

So the jury say he was already behind at 3km to go.

Jury run by a Frenchman - Obviously protecting the Italian interests.

I blame Nigella Lawson's dad. If only he hadn't said Europe was rubbish. Typical knee jerk reaction from our continental cousins there.

DeadCalm

iainf72 wrote:

So the jury say he was already behind at 3km to go.

Jury run by a Frenchman - Obviously protecting the Italian interests.

Sarcasm detected. I think the 'outrage' such as it was was predominantly from the pundits on Italian tv. I don't think Sky themselves are particularly bothered. And at least there is no chance now of Pink being forced on Wiggins before the TT.

tailwindhome

DeadCalm wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

So the jury say he was already behind at 3km to go.

Jury run by a Frenchman - Obviously protecting the Italian interests.

Sarcasm detected. I think the 'outrage' such as it was was predominantly from the pundits on Italian tv. I don't think Sky themselves are particularly bothered. And at least there is no chance now of Pink being forced on Wiggins before the TT.

Have these Italian race organisers no respect for women at all?

jerry3571

Richmond Racer wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Wiggins certainly does come across a tad lackadaisical on occasion during a race.

Anyway, the stage was a slightly too long but the racing has been great so far.

I do like to moan about Wiggo sitting too far back in the last few k's. Evans has taken almost half a minute out of Wiggins with little effort. Ryder was up there at the finish and that's where a top rider needs to be. All the biggest tour riders are smarter riders than Wiggins; LA in his wins (hee hee) was hardly ever caught out at the back of a group like this. Wiggo's been caught out looking at the scenery again. :?

Have you got that rocket for putting up Bradders that you mentioned yesterday, Jerry...race jury said according to all the transponders he was already behind when the crash happened

Ah, ok. So Wiggo didn't have the legs or he's descending like Basso. Yikes!! Things can only get better!! Man the lifeboats!!

garyhoop1

Watch videos from the Giro so far including Stage 4 here - http://bit.ly/137KqEf

knedlicky

DeadCalm wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

So the jury say he was already behind at 3km to go.

I don't think Sky themselves are particularly bothered.

So all those who criticise Wiggins for being (again) too far back are right.

The three who crashed (Dupont true time +34 secs, Salerno and Garate +47 secs) were given the same time as the group behind Wiggins (+21 secs), which very much suggests the crash occurred just behind Wiggins.
So much for him having been delayed by a crash!

As for Sky being bothered or not, Knees said afterwards he was hoping Wiggins would be given the same time as Battaglin. Although I suppose it would have meant 17 secs less work for Knees.

jerry3571 wrote:

Ah, ok. So Wiggo didn't have the legs or he's descending like Basso. Yikes!! Things can only get better!! Man the lifeboats!!

Yes, it’d be interesting to know if Wiggins had already lost contact by the time they crested the pass, so it was on the last part of the ascent he fell back, or whether he lost contact on the short descent thereafter.

FransJacques

Don't hog-tie and roast him yet. Fine, he's not igniting the race like Ryder, Di Luca, Paolini etc. but he has the trump card that others don't - the TT. I agree with those who have conjectured that he's not wanting to fall a la Tour 2011 and end his chances.

He could also be well-peeved at the recent spat with Froomie and Davie B. I'd lose some motivation as well - there's a hint of lack of respect by Dave B not backing a defending chamption. Garmin didn't bring Dan Martin to the Giro instead of Ryder etc. It's not natural. Even in '86 the Badger played head games with Lemond until the end and made him earn it. But Sky management don't enjoy this kind of seat-of-the-pants racing strategy. Nor does Froome - he wants assurances and expectations setting. Wiggins wants things to be left more open-ended...maybe he moves at the end of 2013?

inkyfingers

If anything, I would have thought that the stuff with Froome might help his motivation. If Wiggins wins the Giro then it makes his position stronger, any sign of Froome not having good legs then it will get harder for Sky to ignore Wiggins leadership claims for the Tour.

smithy21

Sky don't seem to be making too much of it. DB seemed quite relaxed in his interview on the highlights show.

I am sure behind the scenes Wiggins has had a kick up the backside to concentrate to the finish. No point in having the rest of your team set the tempo up the climb for him to lose 17 secs for what seems like no reason.

confused@BR

I notice that illness has been reported in the Sky camp. Could this be related to the loss of time suffered by our hero?

Vino'sGhost

knedlicky wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I like it!

proper bike rider

rick_chasey

Great sprint from the guy.


Bit of a snoozer that one. Fell asleep.


Didn't see a crash. Was a bit odd seeing the GC.

mididoctors

knedlicky wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

I'd just prefer it if there was one rule that was applied across the board.

Even with one rule across the board, it’s not that simple.
If Wiggins is given the same time as those ahead of him, does he get the same time as Battaglin or the same time as Weening (7 secs ahead of Wiggins, 10 secs behind Battaglin)?
And do the group who were timed at only 4 secs behind Wiggins (which includes up to 65th place) also get given the same time as Wiggins?

Whatever you do, someone will be disadvantaged and someone gain an undeserved advantage.

I’d do away with the rule altogether. A no-rule is easy to apply across the board.

I don’t think the rule once existed, then they made a 1 km cut-off, and then later upped it to 3 km.
If it goes the way claims to terroritial waters evolved, which when they started were only 2 or 3 km, some races will apply a 50 km cut-off before every promoter eventually agrees on 12 kms. :roll:

you should get the time of the slowest "bit" of the group you were in when the incident occured

ie there is a crash... the group splits because of it... later that group splits again..you caught in the crash get the time of the 2nd part.

Paul 8v

Rick Chasey wrote:

Didn't see a crash. Was a bit odd seeing the GC.

I don't think anyone did!

rick_chasey

Maybe it didn't happen then.

If this was a flat stage 4km out and he was caught behind we'd all be saying he should have been nearer the front.

No different here.

Welcome to the Giro Brad. No rub of the green unless you're Moser / Italian.

RichN95.

It looked to me as though the peloton was strung out in a line at the end and some gaps appeared. Maybe not a full seconds worth but not far off. I wonder if the crash excuse was just an excuse and inattentiveness was the real cause.

Le Commentateur

Or perhaps he's ill.

ocdupalais

I have it on good authority* that Wiggins is so strong at the moment that he's happy to a lose a few seconds here and there to avoid risks and stay upright in the midst of all these one-stage wonder nobbers darting underneath each other on wet corners; apparently, he's already assessed Ryder and Vince and decided that he's going to pulverise them in the TT and on the climbs. He's giving himself a little deficit into the TT to keep himself interested.


*in my mind

afx237vi

You can watch the final 3km here if you go to 51 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... OuX2BkWjQ#!

I spotted Wiggins at the very back of the bunch as they go through the 3km banner (no splits as far as I can see). Crash / mechanical at 1.6km and by then it's very strung out with lots of gaps.

So even if the crash did cause a split, he was still too far back.

greasedscotsman

I blame Di2.

DeadCalm

knedlicky wrote:

The three who crashed (Dupont true time +34 secs, Salerno and Garate +47 secs) were given the same time as the group behind Wiggins (+21 secs), which very much suggests the crash occurred just behind Wiggins.
So much for him having been delayed by a crash!

I truly don't care (my loyalties are with AG2R and FDJ if any team) but I think your logic is off. There could indeed have been a split before the crash, Wiggins could have been delayed but finished ahead of the group that he was in at the time, no?

knedlicky wrote:

As for Sky being bothered or not, Knees said afterwards he was hoping Wiggins would be given the same time as Battaglin. Although I suppose it would have meant 17 secs less work for Knees.

Yes, I'm sure they'd have probably preferred he didn't lose the time but the point I was trying to make was that they aren't making a big fuss (whinging) about it.

knedlicky wrote:

Yes, it’d be interesting to know if Wiggins had already lost contact by the time they crested the pass, so it was on the last part of the ascent he fell back, or whether he lost contact on the short descent thereafter.

Pretty sure it was on the way down although to me he didn't look happy on the ascent but that could have simply been the weather.

Daz555

Not a good day for Wiggo, but then again to be fair it is his first bad day in a GT for about 24 stages.

I'm sure he and his team are irritated that they have now lost the time they gained from the TTT but from a GC perspective it just resets the clock. All level at the top.

ddraver

TTTs have no place in a GT GC competition anyway [/troll]

jerry3571

There are lots more stages like yesterday's, before the Alps and Dolomites so Wiggins could lose more time in this way.
I'm with Vaughters on this and it's all going to be done by pinching time here and there. I think Wiggins could lose his individual TT advantage before the Mountains by leaking time like he has done. His climbing has never been top notch in the Mountains so lots of questions to come.

Good racing though.