Sky & The Classics
Comments
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Danlikesbikes wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:For any peeps interested in Josh Edmondson...he's riding Amstel, as well as Romandie
http://www.sportinglife.com/other-sport ... -tour-spot
Seems a pretty level headed young man.
Glad to see that Sky have a few younger british riders now & looking to bring them along, certainly looks like a few interesting weeks racing coming up.
A quick look of the results on the Junior Tour of Wales suggests it's a good guide for seeing future British potential (as well as a few foreigners that might make it one day!).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Tour_of_Wales0 -
Pross wrote:
A quick look of the results on the Junior Tour of Wales suggests it's a good guide for seeing future British potential (as well as a few foreigners that might make it one day!).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Tour_of_Wales
Does read like a good breading ground of younger riders, several (think even that might be an understatement) names of note on the list.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Just caught up with this & makes for an interesting read - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... paign.html
Suggests they ARE looking for classics win within 3 years.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Danlikesbikes wrote:Just caught up with this & makes for an interesting read - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... paign.html
Suggests they ARE looking for classics win within 3 years.
Is it just me, or does that sound like a rather underwhelming goal?
Unless they mean a monument, but even that's a bit low, isn't it?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:Danlikesbikes wrote:Just caught up with this & makes for an interesting read - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... paign.html
Suggests they ARE looking for classics win within 3 years.
Is it just me, or does that sound like a rather underwhelming goal?
Unless they mean a monument, but even that's a bit low, isn't it?
It does seem pretty low, but possibly realistic given the fairly limited talent at their disposal. They knew Wiggins was pretty special and not really applying himself when they set the TdF goal, plus they were launching the team back then and (probably mistakenly) thought it would be good to talk themselves up.
Thomas has talent, but a long way to go. Eddy is still probably the one who'd do it, but not on the cobbles. Maybe Amstel.0 -
Abdoujaparov wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:Danlikesbikes wrote:Just caught up with this & makes for an interesting read - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... paign.html
Suggests they ARE looking for classics win within 3 years.
Is it just me, or does that sound like a rather underwhelming goal?
Unless they mean a monument, but even that's a bit low, isn't it?
It does seem pretty low, but possibly realistic given the fairly limited talent at their disposal. They knew Wiggins was pretty special and not really applying himself when they set the TdF goal, plus they were launching the team back then and (probably mistakenly) thought it would be good to talk themselves up.
Thomas has talent, but a long way to go. Eddy is still probably the one who'd do it, but not on the cobbles. Maybe Amstel.
Only posted it as a few other contributors were questioning if Sky had publicly stated it was a goal.
Yes think it is slightly underwhelming as goals go but perhaps its the way its reported? But think this is the first time they have publicly made such a statement as they seem so focused on GT domination, sure someone better in the know will point us in the right direction.
I like the fact that they are still pushing the boundaries of what a rider can do in terms of training, but still think they have some way to go with the classics especially the cobbled ones and perhaps those on tighter courses too where supreme fitness only gets you so far.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Er... Apologies if I'm missing something, but since when was aiming to win one of the biggest one day races in the World a lowly ambition?
While there has clearly been some revelling in their inability to produce a result of much note in the classics (and Stannard's MSR performance being a false dawn), have you noticed how much less outright gaffawing and w@nker hand gestures there are now when Sky declare their aims?
As I asked in another thread - what do Sky have to do to in the Ardennes to redeem their classics aspirations (i.e. will only a win matter or will a couple of podiums suffice?)0 -
Some people forget that they have some young riders that are being brought through, Luke Rowe and Edmondson for sure, Stannard and Thomas are still young for classic type races and EBH can hardly be classed as mature yet.
Cyclists typically peak around 27 to 30 not 21.0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:Er... Apologies if I'm missing something, but since when was aiming to win one of the biggest one day races in the World a lowly ambition?
While there has clearly been some revelling in their inability to produce a result of much note in the classics (and Stannard's MSR performance being a false dawn), have you noticed how much less outright gaffawing and w@nker hand gestures there are now when Sky declare their aims?
As I asked in another thread - what do Sky have to do to in the Ardennes to redeem their classics aspirations (i.e. will only a win matter or will a couple of podiums suffice?)
If you read the link I posted you'll see that the report suggests that they have a simple aim of "The goal is to win a one-day title within the next three years" Though to be fair it is from the journalist not the rider & does not state which if any one day race. So if they were saying that they wanted to win P-R I would not count that as a lowly ambition but thats not what the report eludes too.
The reason I posted the link was earlier in this thread a few other contributors had questioned if Sky had changed their tactics from GT winning and based on this year probable attempts at domination in at least 2 if not all 3. Would appear that they have not and that is still their goal for this year but is interesting to see that in the next 2-3 years they may have a change or worse case for other teams that they are making serious attempts to race to win both GT and one day races which I think they could certainly have a crack at.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Yes I did read the article: it solidly refers to the Paris-R and RVV, so I think it's fair to assume that winning a "title" means a classic - and probably a monument, at that.
Perhaps we should wait before condemning their classics season until after they've unleashed Henao, Uran, Cataldo, JTL (come on, boy!) and Wiggins, etc, on the Ardennes... And let's not forget who got 2nd behind Gilbert on the Amstel-esque parcours at the WChamps...0 -
I'm not writing their season off yet, but if you compare their three season "win a classic" goal with their likely goal in the stage races for this season (win a GT? podium 2 GTs?) then it looks a little thin to me. They've got 30 odd races to pick from....
Geraint is 26, EBH 25, Stannard 25 - which of those wouldn't think it was disappointing if they hadn't won a classic by 28/29?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Erm...how are there 30 classics?
Anyway, some thoughts from Joe Lindsey at Bicycling on what Sky do now
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderrepor ... -_-sk-camp0 -
If the goal is just to win a classic/semi-classic e.g. the likes of E3,GW,DVV then, yes, it seems a touch modest given that they've already had a cluster of results around the podium in those races.
If the goal is to win a monument within three years then it seems about right for an ambition i.e. possible with a lot of hard work and a bit of luck. They'll also probably need to bring in a genuine podium contender because G, Stannard, and EBH aren't at the moment.
What you have to understand is that since 2010 Sky have focused almost entirely on the Grand Tours, and they now have the strongest GT squad in the peloton. If they manage to win two GT's this year then they might turn their attention to the spring monuments for 2014. I can see them dropping a few of the GT domestiques and trying to bring in genuine contenders for RVV and PR. Plus with every year Stannard and G are getting stronger/more experienced.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Anyway, some thoughts from Joe Lindsey at Bicycling on what Sky do now
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderrepor ... -_-sk-camp
I feel this is on the money - I'm a bit of a Sky fanboi (not overwhelmingly so) and a massive Stannard fan, so have been frustrated by the disappointing perfomance this year (particularly as for me, the cobbled Classics are the high point of the year). But it does feel like to me like the start of a cycle of improvement - as the article says, this is exactly how the GT approach worked. Obviously, this is no magic guarantee that the same thing will happen, but they have shown again and again that they are more than capable of learning lessons and improving each iteration.
I've got a bit of a personal and professional interest in the science and psychology of perfomance and improvement, so praps pay more attention to this stuff than most, but people swinging to a strong black/white response (e.g. they're sh!t; they should completely stop everything they've tried this year; everything they've tried is stupid, etc.) are being a little naive, or at least choosing not to understand how this works more fully.
Then again, I'm as guilty as the next person of massive sweeping generalisations/dismissals when it suits me, so what to I know
@shraap | My Men 2016: G, Yogi, Cav, Boonen, Degenkolb, Martin, J-Rod, Kudus, Chaves0 -
Isn't the point the "classics" squad, who missed out Paris-Nice and Tirreno-Adriatico, have failed to show in the races they were targeting? Most of those riders will not be starting the Ardennes races, where the riders who've been doing well in stage races - Henao, Uran, Porte maybe, Wiggins et al - will be to the fore.
I think Iain is on the money, they lack a 5 star cobbles rider to compete with Boonen and Cancellara, and, since Flecha's departure, are now left with 3 star riders. One or more of these may make the step up, but they didn't show enough this year to suggest any of them will be feared by the big two next year.0 -
andyp wrote:I think Iain is on the money, they lack a 5 star cobbles rider to compete with Boonen and Cancellara, and, since Flecha's departure, are now left with 3 star riders. One or more of these may make the step up, but they didn't show enough this year to suggest any of them will be feared by the big two next year.
In fairness, which other of the pro-tour teams has a rider to compete with Boonen or Cancellara on the cobbles? Between them they've won 7 of the last 9 editions of PR and 5 of the last 9 editions of Flanders with 2 of the remaining 4 being won by Devolder in default.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Erm...how are there 30 classics?
Anyway, some thoughts from Joe Lindsey at Bicycling on what Sky do now
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderrepor ... -_-sk-camp
Good report.
Think Sky are dammed if they do & if they don't regards their training, obviously the training camps & not using the race to get fit method is working for them. Probably end up with a lot more stick if they do what they have been doing and add in some cobbled/classics training camps, but if they win I doubt that will matter too much to them anyway.
Do we know who is likely to be doing the Ardennes races for them?Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Danlikesbikes wrote:Do we know who is likely to be doing the Ardennes races for them?
Provisionals, according to Pro Cycling Stats:
Amstel: Hayman, Henao, Kennaugh, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Fleche: Porte, Edmondson, Henao, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
L-B-L: Froome, Henao, Kiryienka, Lopez, Porte, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Wiggins is down as a reserve for L-B-L, with various others for all 3 races.0 -
argyllflyer wrote:Danlikesbikes wrote:Do we know who is likely to be doing the Ardennes races for them?
Provisionals, according to Pro Cycling Stats:
Amstel: Hayman, Henao, Kennaugh, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Fleche: Porte, Edmondson, Henao, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
L-B-L: Froome, Henao, Kiryienka, Lopez, Porte, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Wiggins is down as a reserve for L-B-L, with various others for all 3 races.
I'm liking Kennaughs inclusion in Amstel0 -
argyllflyer wrote:Danlikesbikes wrote:Do we know who is likely to be doing the Ardennes races for them?
Provisionals, according to Pro Cycling Stats:
Amstel: Hayman, Henao, Kennaugh, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Fleche: Porte, Edmondson, Henao, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
L-B-L: Froome, Henao, Kiryienka, Lopez, Porte, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Wiggins is down as a reserve for L-B-L, with various others for all 3 races.
They're giving Cataldo a rest then.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Erm...how are there 30 classics?
Anyway, some thoughts from Joe Lindsey at Bicycling on what Sky do now
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderrepor ... -_-sk-camp
There are 10 or 11 so over three years that's 30 or 33.0 -
Milton50 wrote:argyllflyer wrote:Danlikesbikes wrote:Do we know who is likely to be doing the Ardennes races for them?
Provisionals, according to Pro Cycling Stats:
Amstel: Hayman, Henao, Kennaugh, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Fleche: Porte, Edmondson, Henao, Kiryienka, Pucchio, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
L-B-L: Froome, Henao, Kiryienka, Lopez, Porte, JTL, Uran, (+1?)
Wiggins is down as a reserve for L-B-L, with various others for all 3 races.
They're giving Cataldo a rest then.
Stannard too :-(Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Cataldo's next race is Trentino:
Seemingly confirmed Trentino squad (has bib numbers): Wiggins, Cataldo, Dombrowski, Kennaugh, Knees, Pate, Suitsou, Zandio.0 -
argyllflyer wrote:Cataldo's next race is Trentino:
Seemingly confirmed Trentino squad (has bib numbers): Wiggins, Cataldo, Dombrowski, Kennaugh, Knees, Pate, Suitsou, Zandio.
With the addition of Uran, that looks like their Giro team0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:argyllflyer wrote:Cataldo's next race is Trentino:
Seemingly confirmed Trentino squad (has bib numbers): Wiggins, Cataldo, Dombrowski, Kennaugh, Knees, Pate, Suitsou, Zandio.
With the addition of Uran, that looks like their Giro team
Train & race together ethos, think I'd agree with you there.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Danlikesbikes wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:argyllflyer wrote:Cataldo's next race is Trentino:
Seemingly confirmed Trentino squad (has bib numbers): Wiggins, Cataldo, Dombrowski, Kennaugh, Knees, Pate, Suitsou, Zandio.
With the addition of Uran, that looks like their Giro team
Train & race together ethos, think I'd agree with you there.
If that is the team I can see Wiggins only having Uran for company when the really serious mountains appear, maybe Cataldo as well. Dombrowski and Kennaugh are not proven at this level and the rest are more for the flat/rolling stages. Definitely lacking a Froome/Porte/Kiryenka/Rogers (I know he's gone to Saxo) type that can set a really nasty tempo on the bigger climbs."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
inkyfingers wrote:Danlikesbikes wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:argyllflyer wrote:Cataldo's next race is Trentino:
Seemingly confirmed Trentino squad (has bib numbers): Wiggins, Cataldo, Dombrowski, Kennaugh, Knees, Pate, Suitsou, Zandio.
With the addition of Uran, that looks like their Giro team
Train & race together ethos, think I'd agree with you there.
If that is the team I can see Wiggins only having Uran for company when the really serious mountains appear, maybe Cataldo as well. Dombrowski and Kennaugh are not proven at this level and the rest are more for the flat/rolling stages. Definitely lacking a Froome/Porte/Kiryenka/Rogers (I know he's gone to Saxo) type that can set a really nasty tempo on the bigger climbs.
They don't need to set a really nasty tempo though. They just need to make sured nobody gains much. There's about two hours of ITT in this race so if Wiggins finishes in a front group of a dozen every day, that's fine by him..Twitter: @RichN950 -
inkyfingers wrote:If that is the team I can see Wiggins only having Uran for company when the really serious mountains appear, maybe Cataldo as well. Dombrowski and Kennaugh are not proven at this level and the rest are more for the flat/rolling stages. Definitely lacking a Froome/Porte/Kiryenka/Rogers (I know he's gone to Saxo) type that can set a really nasty tempo on the bigger climbs.
You might be right as seem to be lacking a (proven) heavyweight climber/tempo rider. Sure if that is the team that BD knows what he is doing tough. Perhaps Brad after 1 more years scientific training only needs 1-2 rather than a train to set the pace?Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Very few teams have a no 2 as strong as Porte/Froome - Uran would be a lot of team's no 1 rider and Cataldo an adequate third man?
Kiryenka/Rogers = Siutsou/Zandio
Early climbs sorted by Dombrowski and Kennaugh (also on flat pulling duty with Pate who presumably will do 100s of miles on the front).
Knees is Wiggins' bodyguard of choice.
Still pretty strong even by WT standards...
No "fast" man - surely someone has to contest the sprints (Swift or Sutton?)http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
Danlikesbikes wrote:inkyfingers wrote:If that is the team I can see Wiggins only having Uran for company when the really serious mountains appear, maybe Cataldo as well. Dombrowski and Kennaugh are not proven at this level and the rest are more for the flat/rolling stages. Definitely lacking a Froome/Porte/Kiryenka/Rogers (I know he's gone to Saxo) type that can set a really nasty tempo on the bigger climbs.
You might be right as seem to be lacking a (proven) heavyweight climber/tempo rider. Sure if that is the team that BD knows what he is doing tough. Perhaps Brad after 1 more years scientific training only needs 1-2 rather than a train to set the pace?
Catalado for sure will be with Wiggins and Uran for the final high stuff. Also Siutsou is basically very similar to Kiryienka - hard as nails and a very good climber. Just didnt get the chance to see it so much last year as he crashed out of the Tour on stage 2. Dont forget that Siutsou finished 9th in the 2011 Giro when he was with HTC, when he riding for Cav rather than the team riding for him for GC.0
