Sky & The Classics

245

Comments

  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ddraver wrote:
    My biggest worry about Gee is that he doesnt have enough of a will to win on his own. It makes him a nice guy, but does nt make him a winner. He's much better as a team player.

    For example, I fear that he would never have won any Individual Pursuit Medals, but his Team Pursuit record stands for itself...

    Sky need to stop supporting EBH (but then the word on the street is that he commands a significant salary so I reckon that that might be why he appears to be so favoured despite all the evidence that he can't pull it off) and let Gee and Stannard have cracks by themselves (as with the Columbians and maybe JTL in the next few weeks). That said, i think that their main problem is that they re not called Boonen, Sagan or Cancellara unfortunately.


    I'll be surprised if G or Stannard are named in the Ardennes squads. They've got powerful teams for the races without them, and the Classics squad have been hard at it since last Nov - I reckon they're off now for a good break. I bet we'll next see G at Romandie.

    EBH must drive them crazy. He raised up hopes after really strong rides like Plouay and the Worlds. Steve Peters might need to be called up to spend some time on him (I'm only half-joking). EBH's contracted till end-14 I think, and on a big whack.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    I really don;t know what to make of EBH. From what Sky say he can do pretty much everything; sprint, climb, breakaway rides, longer day races. Which he goes pretty well, say top 10-20 placings but thats really a no mans land in terms of results.

    Maybe the team are grooming (sorry couldn't find a better word) as a true GT rider
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    EBH has been turned into a team player, he has perhaps had his abilities dulled by the Sky training team, so that he is designed to sit on the front for 40minutes then recharge and take part in the lead out for a sprint. its a bit of a shame....
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    (yeah I was thinking of 'swapping' Gee and Stannard for others...)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    EBH just doesn't have it. He's never mustered a position he could win from in years of riding the classics he was supposed to have monopolised by now. He is, however, a useful 2nd rung sprinter, a guy who can win from small groups and a great team rider for a GT.

    Worth keeping around, but not paying mega bucks.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    philbar72 wrote:
    EBH has been turned into a team player, he has perhaps had his abilities dulled by the Sky training team, so that he is designed to sit on the front for 40minutes then recharge and take part in the lead out for a sprint. its a bit of a shame....

    I'd really thought of it that way, but does make sense I guess. He certainly seems strong and capable, but thinking about the way they train to build strong support riders like Stannard & Kiryienka etc
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Danlikesbikes wrote:
    I really don;t know what to make of EBH. From what Sky say he can do pretty much everything; sprint, climb, breakaway rides, longer day races. Which he goes pretty well, say top 10-20 placings but thats really a no mans land in terms of results.

    Maybe the team are grooming (sorry couldn't find a better word) as a true GT rider


    But that's the frustrating thing. Its not like he consistently trundles in top 10-20. He can win sprints against quality oppo - see T-A and Dauphine last year. The Plouay win was a strong man's win. He's won via breakaways. And the Worlds silver was also a v strong ride.

    Frustrating, because of such results and such inconsistency.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Richmond Racer wrote:


    But that's the frustrating thing. Its not like he consistently trundles in top 10-20. He can win sprints against quality oppo - see T-A and Dauphine last year. The Plouay win was a strong man's win. He's won via breakaways. And the Worlds silver was also a v strong ride.

    Frustrating, because of such results and such inconsistency.

    Frustrating yes - I like him as a rider and on his day think he easily places in top 10-20. Just wonder what going on behind the closed doors Re team orders. Though by the looks this season he is almost there but perhaps off on form, hence the team giving a bit more backing to Stannard, s previously would have said that he was riding for EBH.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,382
    philbar72 wrote:
    EBH has been turned into a team player, he has perhaps had his abilities dulled by the Sky training team, so that he is designed to sit on the front for 40minutes then recharge and take part in the lead out for a sprint. its a bit of a shame....

    Wasn't EBH still being coached by his long-time Norwegian coach until fairly recently, end of last season perhaps?
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Tell you what though, EBH still made 6th place, CQRankings for 2012. From Sky's perspective, 2nd biggest contributor of points after Wiggins - and more than Cav even

    Top 20:
    RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin
    WIGGINS Bradley
    BOONEN Tom
    VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro
    SAGAN Peter
    BOASSON HAGEN Edvald
    NIBALI Vincenzo
    GREIPEL Andre
    DEGENKOLB John
    MARTIN Tony
    FROOME Chris
    COSTA Rui Alberto Faria
    GERRANS Simon
    CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto
    VOECKLER Thomas
    URAN URAN Rigoberto
    MORENO FERNANDEZ Daniel
    CAVENDISH Mark
    HESJEDAL Ryder
    HENAO MONTOYA Sergio Luis
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    CQRankings work over a past 12 month basis as opposed to the UCI points which are for this season only?

    If so then yes looks good for him & the team.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Danlikesbikes wrote:
    CQRankings work over a past 12 month basis as opposed to the UCI points which are for this season only?

    If so then yes looks good for him & the team.


    CQRankings work on UCI points. So that table was as of end-2012 for the points earned over the entire 2012 season. As I understand it anyway.
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Danlikesbikes wrote:
    CQRankings work over a past 12 month basis as opposed to the UCI points which are for this season only?

    If so then yes looks good for him & the team.
    The list above is the CQ Rankings for points scored during the 2012 calendar year. You can also view it on 2013 only (EBH is 70th) or past 12 months as you describe (EBH is 8th).
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    Sky had a clear aim when the team was created to win the Tour within 5 years - do they have something similar now for a major classics race?
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Graeme_S wrote:
    Danlikesbikes wrote:
    CQRankings work over a past 12 month basis as opposed to the UCI points which are for this season only?

    If so then yes looks good for him & the team.
    The list above is the CQ Rankings for points scored during the 2012 calendar year. You can also view it on 2013 only (EBH is 70th) or past 12 months as you describe (EBH is 8th).

    Cheers for that.

    So over the last 12 months he is 8th in which case he is more consistent than perhaps he gets credit for.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    If you looked at what EBH has acheived and what he can do in terms of climbing, TT, hard sprints you'd think he would be very similar in reputation to Sagan, perhaps even better.

    You can't say it's lack of form because he has failed in the big classics year after year, and you can't say it's poor conditioning/training because that is exactly what Sky spend all their time perfecting.

    He's either just one of those riders that finds it impossible to be consistent or mentally weak when it comes to the big races.
  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    As the OP I agree with a lot of what's been said...and I have no axe to grind with Sky, it just strikes me as odd that they "bigged" themselves up for the Classics and then don't appear to have approached them in anything like the right fashion.
    Personally I agree with one poster who said they are a Grand Tour team, and appear to have got that nailed down.I just wish they hadn't made the Classics such a big thing to then turn in such a disappointing showing up to now.
    I wholeheartedly agree too that EDH is not being used to his full potential, but maybe he is, and just hasn't got the special "thing" that all sportsmen need to succeed...who knows...but one thing is certain, the summer Grand Tours should be very interesting!!!!!
  • Ed_tron
    Ed_tron Posts: 23
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    Sky had a clear aim when the team was created to win the Tour within 5 years - do they have something similar now for a major classics race?

    Hmm, good question. I've not seen anything similar for the classics. Perhaps they know the classics are harder to control (choo choo!), so didnt want to come out with a goal as such.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    I think its a bit of 6 of one/half a dozen of the other, when it comes to 'making a big deal of the Classics'

    It goes something along these lines:
    It started with Surdave saying at the end of last year's Tour 'we were %^&* in the Classics'. They then decide they're going to embark on a Project Classics, which kind of follows a similar model as they aproached the Tour - keep the entire squad together, training as well as racing, and do lots of training camps. In an interview in Dec or Jan, Ellingworth lets slip that the Classics squad arent going to ride P-N or T-A, and train in Tenerife instead. Cue cycling media and Twitter explosion over the sheer outrageousness of such an approach. And ongoing fascination and constant referencing to it every single time a story gets written, or a rider's interviewed.

    So yeah, Sky have made a big deal about it - but that's Surdave's consistent approch on both track and road - set lofty goals and go public with them Its what he does, like it or loath it.

    But the media have also been in a constant tizzy about it ever since Ellingworth mentioned that they were doing a training camp rather than ride P-N or T-A.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    The way I look at it, sky have 2 tier 1 guys for Grand Tours (Wiggins and Froome)

    For classics, they've got a bunch of tier 3 guys. Tier 1 = Canc / Boonen / Sagan, Tier 2 people like Pippo, Flecha, GVA, Sep etc

    There are also some other things -why can OPQS get 3 people in the final selection of 13, when their main guy is out of action.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    iainf72 wrote:
    The way I look at it, sky have 2 tier 1 guys for Grand Tours (Wiggins and Froome)

    For classics, they've got a bunch of tier 3 guys. Tier 1 = Canc / Boonen / Sagan, Tier 2 people like Pippo, Flecha, GVA, Sep etc

    There are also some other things -why can OPQS get 3 people in the final selection of 13, when their main guy is out of action.


    I 'd imagine the recent Lefevere boll^ckings might have had something of a galvanising effect on OPQS. I mean, Accent Jobs wont have room for everyone... :wink:
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    iainf72 wrote:

    There are also some other things -why can OPQS get 3 people in the final selection of 13, when their main guy is out of action.

    They are pretty much a Belgian team though perhaps not 100% in rider make up but the types of races they excel at and the types of riders they have seem to be awash with classics/hardman riders.

    The same way that Sky do in stage races by having not only the best main riders but pretty damn good support riders too who could if they went to another team be classed as the number 1.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Richmond Racer wrote:


    I 'd imagine the recent Lefevere boll^ckings might have had something of a galvanising effect on OPQS. I mean, Accent Jobs wont have room for everyone... :wink:

    heh

    But seriously, they consistently manage to perform in these kind of races.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    In an interview in Dec or Jan, Ellingworth lets slip that the Classics squad arent going to ride P-N or T-A, and train in Tenerife instead.

    Watched a few of the training videos they (& others) posted regarding this.

    Wonder if they got it slightly wrong in that they made the whole team super strong. Though for the classics you need practice on the cobbles, strong riders & the ability to deal with very fluid tactics and fast changes of pace. Look at Vanmarcke's smart move to stay on Fab's wheel and not let the preverbal inch turn into a mile.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,174
    Despite all the bluster I don't think the Classics are high on Sky's list of priorities. I don't doubt they wanted to win and that they put riders in the cobbelled races who, with a bit of luck and the favourites being marked out could have won. Stannard was close in M-S-R, Hayman made the main break of the day at P-R and Eisel made the main selection. Thomas had bad luck and only really EBH under-performed. I'm not quite sure what happened to Stannard yesterday as one moment he was looking like getting across to the Canc break and the next he'd gone out the back, presumably just blew.

    As others have said the team probably has a better chance in the Ardennes and possibly at Lombardy but ultimately even their 'classics squad' will mainly be focused on domestique duties in the Grand Tours. They are first and foremost a GT team and I suspect their real aim this season is to win at least 2 GTs and get on the podium in all 3. By contrast other squads such as OPQS have a bias towards the single day races and are unlikely to be on the podium at GTs, it's just the way it is and probably reflects what gets the most publicity for the sponsors in their target areas. To be honest, I don't want to see Sky dominate one day races even though there are a few riders there I would like to see win a big one. It would send certain quarters into meltdown if Sky did win Classics! Plus the controlled, scientific approach that works for races just doesn't work on one day races which are won by tactics and the person who is prepared to risk everything.
  • BelgianBeerGeek
    BelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,226
    +1 to what Pross said.

    A one day race just has too many variables and one little thing can mean the difference between winning and losing. More so in a race like P-R. On a stage race it is possible to control things a bit more.
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Maybe the answer is to get a few specialist riders in the squad who can use the sky train to thin things out during a race but use their race craft to do better in terms of results.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    For any peeps interested in Josh Edmondson...he's riding Amstel, as well as Romandie

    http://www.sportinglife.com/other-sport ... -tour-spot
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    For any peeps interested in Josh Edmondson...he's riding Amstel, as well as Romandie

    http://www.sportinglife.com/other-sport ... -tour-spot

    Seems a pretty level headed young man.

    Glad to see that Sky have a few younger british riders now & looking to bring them along, certainly looks like a few interesting weeks racing coming up.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    iainf72 wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:


    I 'd imagine the recent Lefevere boll^ckings might have had something of a galvanising effect on OPQS. I mean, Accent Jobs wont have room for everyone... :wink:

    heh

    But seriously, they consistently manage to perform in these kind of races.

    Shows how much of an effect hunger (metaphorical) has on performances. Stybar said he'd give up a cyclocross world cup to be involved in the finale for Flanders and Roubaix.

    Blanco seem to be doing better than last year noe their contracts are on the line ( though sure, Vanmarke wasn't there last year)
    _

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