Tour of Catalunya - *Spoilers*

Pross

LeicesterLad wrote:

A bit like twitter. Saw so many tweets yesterday after Martins win saying 'So Martin blows Wiggins away and it's a brave ride, anyone from Sky does it and their doping' blah blah blah. It's like the pro-Sky people can't handle not talking about them no matter what the situation.

Aren't they just pointing out hypocrisy though? People cast all sorts of innuendo over a team when they perform well (and even when they don't perform well) and yet a rider who beats them is just a great rider but I agree that the sniping and countering detracts from race discussion. Frenchie was on the right path with his comments but then spoiled it by being unable to resist a final dig about Sky and money :roll:

oneof1982

Pross wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

A bit like twitter. Saw so many tweets yesterday after Martins win saying 'So Martin blows Wiggins away and it's a brave ride, anyone from Sky does it and their doping' blah blah blah. It's like the pro-Sky people can't handle not talking about them no matter what the situation.

Aren't they just pointing out hypocrisy though? People cast all sorts of innuendo over a team when they perform well (and even when they don't perform well) and yet a rider who beats them is just a great rider but I agree that the sniping and countering detracts from race discussion. Frenchie was on the right path with his comments but then spoiled it by being unable to resist a final dig about Sky and money :roll:

I refer you to the posts at the top of this page.....

danlikesbikes

Above The Cows wrote:

Anyway back to the Volta a Catalunya, pretty much downhill all the way after the Cat 2.

Could be quite a chase on, looks a little rolling but should be a fast finish if a group can/does break away on the climb

ddraver

Above The Cows wrote:

ddraver wrote:

s'OK in Leiden today...flipping windy though, even by Dutch Standards...

Do you have a really long word for a rant that goes round and round in circles?

Ha ha I was actually going to post that the Sky discussion is becoming tautological but then thought that it was early and people needed another coffee.

The wind is really strong today. Niet lekker! (Lekker is a great word DG). If it's this strong in Flanders it could make for an interesting E3.

Anyway back to the Volta a Catalunya, pretty much downhill all the way after the Cat 2.

By the way, apparently Lekker can be used for both good AND bad depending on tone...a windy E3 should be good...

Somehow I suspect that Garmin may try and control this as much as possible over the climb (stop it now!!) and keep it together down the descent. I think there'll be more fun in Flanders tbh...

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

with the Sky thing, it goes both way. You get the frothing at the mouth haters, and the frothing at the mouth defenders.

Both put people off.

That's what I meant.
Everything else gets pushed to one side.

I'm much more interested to see how Garmin try and defend the GC with their 3 men in the top 10.
Today will probably be the one to make the breakaway stick, but tomorrow looks certain to contain fireworks.
You have to figure that Garmin are strong enough to keep Dan in contention on the final climb, but then there's the downhill and the Montjuic finale is going to be very difficult.

DeadCalm

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I'm much more interested to see how Garmin try and defend the GC with their 3 men in the top 10.
Today will probably be the one to make the breakaway stick, but tomorrow looks certain to contain fireworks.
You have to figure that Garmin are strong enough to keep Dan in contention on the final climb, but then there's the downhill and the Montjuic finale is going to be very difficult.

Agree it'll be interesting. Can see Katusha being forced to assume responsibility for chasing the break. As long as they aren't threatening to GC, Garmin would be quite happy to see escapees take all available bonus seconds .

RichN95.

There are two aspects to most sports: attacking and defending. One is more ostentatious than the other and gets praised while the other is often criticised despite being much harder to master. In reality, in high level sport winning always takes presendence over entertaining, and a solid defence is the key to winning.

Sky are a defensive team. This offends some, just as many of the great sports teams have in the past. Personally as a goalkeeper, I like defences. I admire the teamwork and consistency required. Others prefer the more mercurial individual nature of attacking and that's fair enough. But dismissing one aspect as somehow morally inferior is just ignorant.


(As an aside this is also why people who compare Sky to the old US Postal train have no idea what they're talking about. One was an attacking tactic, the other defensive).

mfin

I think the one thing that dulls some of threads is the way some praise some riders but every single time will be worded to pinpoint something negative in some of their other chosen 'disliked riders'. If this trend was lessened, and people commented on the racing that are actually watching it, then things could become really good here.

Im not saying pointing out 'bad tactics' is a bad thing, but so much of it is tiresome, but I accept that what's tiresome to me is probably enjoyable baiting/in-your-face argument to others.

The only negatives I can see is when dopers/ex-dopers win or do well, but that's always going to come up, because its so against the essence of sport and fair-play. (not trying to start a doping discussion!!!!!!!)

(I also agree with Sky haters/lovers polluting the whole thing too, it just lowers the whole thing to the level of football discussion to me)

danlikesbikes

DeadCalm wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I'm much more interested to see how Garmin try and defend the GC with their 3 men in the top 10.
Today will probably be the one to make the breakaway stick, but tomorrow looks certain to contain fireworks.
You have to figure that Garmin are strong enough to keep Dan in contention on the final climb, but then there's the downhill and the Montjuic finale is going to be very difficult.

Agree it'll be interesting. Can see Katusha being forced to assume responsibility for chasing the break. As long as they aren't threatening to GC, Garmin would be quite happy to see escapees take all available bonus seconds .

hopefully Garmin don't burn themselves out trying to chase & make others work. Agree it would be good if they could get Katusha doing some of the leg work.

alihisgreat

Maybe another Wiggo attack on the descent today?




Think its more likely tomorrow given the proximity to the finish.. but I suppose it depends on the nature of the descents.

jotko

That picture is classic....

LeicesterLad

Message for Richmond Racer - you could have just joined the discussion on here, rather than take it up on twitter.

Richmond Racer

LeicesterLad wrote:

Message for Richmond Racer - you could have just joined the discussion on here, rather than take it up on twitter.

You know, I'm really quite happy with what I use twitter for. And if some followers dont like, well, they can just unfollow. Quite simple really :? I'm not there to build up a massive following or anything.

And I've actually got FF filtered out so that I dont get irritated by his usual baiting, and respond, thereby adding to noise. Generally I'm trying to concentrate here on race and tactics discussion, trying my hand at the PTP, and of course banter (and not always succeeding, I know)

LeicesterLad

Richmond Racer wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Message for Richmond Racer - you could have just joined the discussion on here, rather than take it up on twitter.

Its really quite simple: you dont like, dont follow.

And I've actually got FF filtered out so that I dont get irritated by his usual baiting, and respond.

As I explained to you - I follow you on twitter because you often have good, interesting things to say. I can converse with people who have a differing opinion to me without feeling the need to attack them on a personal level. I don't judge people based on their opinion on one particular subject, if that were the case there would be very few people I could talk to in the world.

Just ask DD. I've long had disagreements with him on this forum - we still get on and understand each others gripes (at least I think DD will agree). Such is life.

ddraver

I have to hand it to you sistah - "Journalism a deux vitesses" is outstanding wordsmithery!

Richmond Racer

ddraver wrote:

I have to hand it to you sistah - "Journalism a deux vitesses" is outstanding wordsmithery!

Aye thank you

LeicesterLad

Richmond Racer wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Message for Richmond Racer - you could have just joined the discussion on here, rather than take it up on twitter.

You know, I'm really quite happy with what I use twitter for. And if some followers dont like, well, they can just unfollow. Quite simple really :? I'm not there to build up a massive following or anything.

And I've actually got FF filtered out so that I dont get irritated by his usual baiting, and respond, thereby adding to noise. Generally I'm trying to concentrate here on race and tactics discussion, trying my hand at the PTP, and of course banter (and not always succeeding, I know)

I'm just saying a group of you guys are in danger of becoming the very thing you supposedly despise - a clique group that hit's up twitter day in day out talking about FG, Anti-Sky ppl, Kimmage, Stokes and attacking anybody who dares say otherwise. Pretty much exactly the same as twaliban tactics, though I don't remember FG or Stokes or anybody slinging words like 'tw@t' and worse about...

Not looking for an argument here, just saying as I see it.

As far as twitter goes, i often disagree with FG and the other 'twaliban' and have openly questioned them. FG knows I disagree with her but we are still able to hold a conversation and discuss other things and get along just fine. In general the 'twaliban' have quietened down a fair bit - those on the other side of the fence havn't.

DeadCalm

LL, is there not a more appropriate thread for this particular debate than this one which is, as far as I'm aware, supposed to be about a bike race?

Thanks.

Richmond Racer

DeadCalm wrote:

LL, is there not a more appropriate thread for this particular debate than this one which is, as far as I'm aware, supposed to be about a bike race?

Thanks.

DC, timely reminder. I'm up for that, personally.

Ok, so this bike race...

frenchfighter

DeadCalm wrote:

LL, is there not a more appropriate thread for this particular debate than this one which is, as far as I'm aware, supposed to be about a bike race?

Thanks.

Exactly, I am in agreement. I think the twitter folk are best left on twitter. We didn't have them before and you haven't provided much on here apart from antagonism and childish chat between you. Its like junk mail: you get lots of it, it's annoying and only on a rare occasion is there anything of worth.



There is a MTF over in Coppi land today by the way.

inkyfingers

Think a Sky thread is an excellent idea. I'm sick to the back teeth of it, same on twitter where i'm either going to have a massive cull of people I follow or might even ditch twitter completely. I admit that I have got involved in some of the discussions, but it's like the Armstrong chat now, just circular discussions where nobody respects other opinions.

Anyway, racing in Spain...after two nasty stages and with two nasty ones to come I think we'll see a chilled day today with a soft break off the front and taking the win.

DeadCalm

inkyfingers wrote:

Anyway, racing in Spain...after two nasty stages and with two nasty ones to come I think we'll see a chilled day today with a soft break off the front and taking the win.

Agreed. I imagine the most exciting part of the day could well be the fight to get into the break.

ddraver

You all take things on the internet way too seriously you know #YOLO

richa

RichN95 wrote:

Naivety is thinking that Sky give a toss about this race. Sure they'd like to win it and they'll give it a go but ultimately they know that Wiggins (or anyone else on the team) isn't going to outclimb Rodriguez and Quintana if they are on form, so in the absence of the a time trial they are unlikely to win. If Catalunya was high on their agenda they would have sent Froome or Henao.
What is high on their agenda is the Giro, which will have two hours of time trialling. And supporting Wiggins in that race will be Cataldo, Lopez and Uran so they're riding this as they will the Giro - minimizing loses to the pure climbers who will be battered in a TT.

I this a different approach to last year? I thought last year they had 're-invented' structuring a season so that training-is-training & racing-is-racing e.g. not races not for training. Wiggo went out to win everything last year. Is he settling for this as trianing ride this year? Or is he/the train not as far ahead this year (so no choice)? If that is the bulk of his Giro team then they fell by the wayside too early yesterday...

LeicesterLad

DeadCalm wrote:

LL, is there not a more appropriate thread for this particular debate than this one which is, as far as I'm aware, supposed to be about a bike race?

Thanks.

Happy to oblige!

danlikesbikes

viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12909829 for those that want to debate, argue & muse the Sky pros & cons.

tailwindhome

iainf72 wrote:

with the Sky thing, it goes both way. You get the frothing at the mouth haters, and the frothing at the mouth defenders.

Both put people off.

It's got more boring than Contador/ Steak references.

That took some doing.

DeadCalm

Team Sky ‏@TeamSky 24m
After an hour of racing at #VoltaCatalunya, it looks as though Olivier Kaisen (Lotto) and Tristan Valentin (Cofidis) have formed the break.

Not surprised it took an hour for the break to get away. Am surprised that there are only 2 away though.

RichN95.

RichA wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Naivety is thinking that Sky give a toss about this race. Sure they'd like to win it and they'll give it a go but ultimately they know that Wiggins (or anyone else on the team) isn't going to outclimb Rodriguez and Quintana if they are on form, so in the absence of the a time trial they are unlikely to win. If Catalunya was high on their agenda they would have sent Froome or Henao.
What is high on their agenda is the Giro, which will have two hours of time trialling. And supporting Wiggins in that race will be Cataldo, Lopez and Uran so they're riding this as they will the Giro - minimizing loses to the pure climbers who will be battered in a TT.

I this a different approach to last year? I thought last year they had 're-invented' structuring a season so that training-is-training & racing-is-racing e.g. not races not for training. Wiggo went out to win everything last year. Is he settling for this as trianing ride this year? Or is he/the train not as far ahead this year (so no choice)? If that is the bulk of his Giro team then they fell by the wayside too early yesterday...

No it's exactly the same as last year. They're still trying to win, or at least get as high a position possible, but only by using the strategy which they intend to use in the Giro. They will try moves like the one they did on stage 1, but they aren't so desperate to win that they'll abandon Plan A midrace. They won't lose much sleep if they don't win. A solid fourth will do them just fine.

danlikesbikes

DeadCalm wrote:

Team Sky ‏@TeamSky 24m
After an hour of racing at #VoltaCatalunya, it looks as though Olivier Kaisen (Lotto) and Tristan Valentin (Cofidis) have formed the break.

Not surprised it took an hour for the break to get away. Am surprised that there are only 2 away though.

Yeah did see that & thought only 2? But still got a big climb to come in the middle so think some might try before that