Is Bradley Wiggins a great champion?
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Wallace and Gromit wrote:Thus, one can win races, but not be considered a Champion if one rides without panache or elan (which helpfully are subjective, undefined terms), particularly if compounded by being a wheelsucker.
In Wiggo's case, I suspect his fans will consider him a Great Champion and his detractors won't.
Not true - ask the Spanish. Their Greatest Champion was, and is, El Rey: Indurain. Very much a GT rider in the mould of Wiggins (and why, on the whole, they keep whatever the Spanish is for schtum about the manner in which Wiggo rides). Contador could give it all the élan and panache he wants over the remainder of his career, but I doubt he'll ever be held in the same regard as Indurain.
Amongst other reasons, this is why it is important for the Spanish psyche that Indurain's legacy remains unsullied with proven doping links. It'd be like the Brits discovering that Roger Bannister was off his nut on speed and Bobby Moore was a one for the 'roids...0 -
What about a True Champion TM, is he one of those?0
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Gabbo wrote:Sorry if this topic has been discussed to death but am wondering what your opinions on him as a champion are? I mean, we all know that Chris Froome was the true star of the TDF last year. Assuming Chris Froome was not to his assistance, and we had seen decent contenders (not a fading Cadel Evans), just how would Bradley have fared?
I'm a relatively new follower in the sport (as you can probably tell).
And assuming Bradley would lead out this summer too (highly unlikely), would he have just a good a chance as he did last year?
Thanks
HOW THE F*CK WAS FROOME THE TRUE STAR???? can i have some of what you're smoking!! :shock:
Wiggins won the Tour....Froome was a high paid domestique that did the job he was paid to do, thats it. He was creamed in the time trials and when it came to the Olympics, Wiggins creamed him then as well, and lets not forget the other races Wiggins won that year.
All Froome did was throw his dummy out the pram and got his bird to tweet a load of old shjte about him being unfairly treated. But if you look like the blonde one out of Beavis 'n' Butthead what do you expect.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?
If Froome hadnt have been there, Porte would have taken up his role (and I'd argue would have likely done as decent a job as Froome). And Danny Pate would have ridden the Tour to make up the 9th rider.
+1 agreed.0 -
OmertaOCDuPalais wrote:Not true - ask the Spanish. Their Greatest Champion was, and is, El Rey: Indurain. Very much a GT rider in the mould of Wiggins (and why, on the whole, they keep whatever the Spanish is for schtum about the manner in which Wiggo rides). Contador could give it all the élan and panache he wants over the remainder of his career, but I doubt he'll ever be held in the same regard as Indurain.
snip...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
You genuinely think Wiggins wouldn't have won if Froome wasn't there? Interested to hear your reasoning.ThomThom wrote:
Of course he wouldn't.TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?0 -
What, you mean not talking about a massive diesal engine minimising time losses in the mountains, having his team keep the oppo on a tight reign, and smashing the TTs, is Omerta?0
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just don't call wiggins a 'true champion', this term is reserved for convicted dopers.--
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OCDuPalais wrote:Wallace and Gromit wrote:Thus, one can win races, but not be considered a Champion if one rides without panache or elan (which helpfully are subjective, undefined terms), particularly if compounded by being a wheelsucker.
In Wiggo's case, I suspect his fans will consider him a Great Champion and his detractors won't.
Not true - ask the Spanish. Their Greatest Champion was, and is, El Rey: Indurain. Very much a GT rider in the mould of Wiggins (and why, on the whole, they keep whatever the Spanish is for schtum about the manner in which Wiggo rides). Contador could give it all the élan and panache he wants over the remainder of his career, but I doubt he'll ever be held in the same regard as Indurain.
Amongst other reasons, this is why it is important for the Spanish psyche that Indurain's legacy remains unsullied with proven doping links. It'd be like the Brits discovering that Roger Bannister was off his nut on speed and Bobby Moore was a one for the 'roids...
Agreed. The requirements for consideration as a Great Champion do vary by country. I think Berto would have been in with a shout had he not had his run in with the testing labs and subsequently taken everyone for fools with his "defence".0 -
The question was "what is Spanish for shtum?"Richmond Racer wrote:What, you mean not talking about a massive diesal engine minimising time losses in the mountains, having his team keep the oppo on a tight reign, and smashing the TTs, is Omerta?
The origin of the word is traced (by the OED) to the Spanish word hombredad, meaning manliness, modified after the Sicilian word omu for man. According to a different theory, the word comes from Latin humilitas (humility), which became umirtà and then finally omertà in some southern Italian dialects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omert%C3%A0...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Macaloon wrote:
The question was "what is Spanish for shtum?"Richmond Racer wrote:What, you mean not talking about a massive diesal engine minimising time losses in the mountains, having his team keep the oppo on a tight reign, and smashing the TTs, is Omerta?
The origin of the word is traced (by the OED) to the Spanish word hombredad, meaning manliness, modified after the Sicilian word omu for man. According to a different theory, the word comes from Latin humilitas (humility), which became umirtà and then finally omertà in some southern Italian dialects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omert%C3%A0
Ohhhhh..
Every day's a school day0 -
I think so and with a bit of panache when it came to the sprint lead out in Paris.0
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Richmond Racer wrote:Ohhhhh..
Every day's a school day
Just 'fessing to a spot of luck regarding unlikely Spanish origins. 8)...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
maybe in the light of the horse meat scandal, and the relevations of race horses from the states getting slaughtered in Mexico, then finding thier way into the food chain. If Bertie had said it was from a contaminated burger, rather than trying to show off by saying he eats steak every night, he would would have got away with it!Suburban studs yodel better than anyone else0
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The Mad Rapper wrote:Gabbo wrote:I would have liked to have seen Bradley battle with someone like Contador
So he could get destroyed? Wiggins isn't as exciting a rider IMHO.
What does excitement have to do with ability?0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:What does excitement have to do with ability?
They are inherently linked. I can't recall seeing many exciting sh*t riders, can you?0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:What does excitement have to do with ability?
They are inherently linked. I can't recall seeing many exciting sh*t riders, can you?
A farrar sprint is usually pretty exciting, and wince inducing.Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
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The Mad Rapper wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:What does excitement have to do with ability?
They are inherently linked. I can't recall seeing many exciting sh*t riders, can you?
That doesn't mean that if a rider isn't exciting they are s**t though so they aren't really inherently linked. Voeckler is an exciting rider but I don't think he will beat Wiggins in a Grand Tour in future.0 -
Amets Txurruka likes to attack a lot and seems to excite people - never won a race, got dropped my Euskaltel.The Mad Rapper wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:What does excitement have to do with ability?
They are inherently linked. I can't recall seeing many exciting sh*t riders, can you?
Hoogerland gets more attention and adulation that his palmares merit.
Ignatiev is another one.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Pross wrote:That doesn't mean that if a rider isn't exciting they are s**t though so they aren't really inherently linked. Voeckler is an exciting rider but I don't think he will beat Wiggins in a Grand Tour in future.
Accepted, it's down to the individual.
Wiggins bores me personally, and I hope he's clean after all of the things he's said. Is he a great champion? I suppose it comes down to how we each define great. My money would go elsewhere TBH.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:What does excitement have to do with ability?
They are inherently linked. I can't recall seeing many exciting sh*t riders, can you?
True, but then again exciting riders tend to be dopers...like your mate Contador
Wiggins maybe be a bit boring compared to Contador but at least hes clean.0 -
EPO Delivery Man wrote:Wiggins maybe be a bit boring compared to Contador but at least hes clean.
You don't know that he's clean.0 -
thegibdog wrote:
You genuinely think Wiggins wouldn't have won if Froome wasn't there? Interested to hear your reasoning.ThomThom wrote:
Of course he wouldn't.TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?
Why did you remove Richmond's quote? It was Richmond's post I replied to.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:EPO Delivery Man wrote:Wiggins maybe be a bit boring compared to Contador but at least hes clean.
You don't know that he's clean.
EPO Delivery Man doesn't have him on his round.0 -
EPO Delivery Man wrote:Wiggins maybe be a bit boring compared to Contador but at least hes clean.
No one on this forum can tell. Many things are favouring Bradley, some don't - but damn.. this particular sentence is really not working out for me.0 -
Mad_Malx wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:EPO Delivery Man wrote:Wiggins maybe be a bit boring compared to Contador but at least hes clean.
You don't know that he's clean.
EPO Delivery Man doesn't have him on his round. 0
