Is Bradley Wiggins a great champion?
Sorry if this topic has been discussed to death but am wondering what your opinions on him as a champion are? I mean, we all know that Chris Froome was the true star of the TDF last year. Assuming Chris Froome was not to his assistance, and we had seen decent contenders (not a fading Cadel Evans), just how would Bradley have fared?
I'm a relatively new follower in the sport (as you can probably tell).
And assuming Bradley would lead out this summer too (highly unlikely), would he have just a good a chance as he did last year?
Thanks
I'm a relatively new follower in the sport (as you can probably tell).
And assuming Bradley would lead out this summer too (highly unlikely), would he have just a good a chance as he did last year?
Thanks
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Comments
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Gabbo wrote:I mean, we all know that Chris Froome was the true star of the TDF last year.
I thought Peter Sagan was?0 -
Was Froome really the true star?
When you look at how much time Brad took out of him in the TTs and consider the fact that Brad may have been riding conservatively since he knew he could afford to just match everyone in the mountains and smash them in the TTs.. where does that leave us?
...It leaves us with an idiot who can't follow his orders and makes himself look like a tit with his theatrics. His actions didn't really make him look like a star to anyone.0 -
Froome benefited from the entire team riding for Wiggins. He lost 1.25mins to Wiggins on Stage 1, having punctured, got time ripped out of him by Wiggins in the 2 TTs, and did a couple of flashy moves in the climb to Toussaire and up to Peyragudes that no one has any idea whether they'd have stuck if he'd continued.
So how was he the star?0 -
ddraver wrote:Sounds like your mind's made up Gabbo - who cares if we agree or not...
I just want to see it from another perspective, that's all.
From what I saw, Froome appeared to be the star of the show. Why? I don't know, but that is how it appeared to me. The next tour will be very interesting. But you know, I would have liked to have seen Bradley battle with someone like Contador0 -
ddraver wrote:Sounds like your mind's made up Gabbo - who cares if we agree or not...
I think you have just killed this forum!0 -
If the Berlin Wall was still up, if Australia had never been a penal colony, if Kenya had been colonized by the Germans, if Sicily had become an independent state, if cancer had been cured in the 80s, if Spain was an Islamic state, if the BSB squariel had been more popular? Would he have won the Tour then? And does this devalue his win?Twitter: @RichN950
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Richmond Racer wrote:Froome benefited from the entire team riding for Wiggins. He lost 1.25mins to Wiggins on Stage 1, having punctured, got time ripped out of him by Wiggins in the 2 TTs, and did a couple of flashy moves in the climb to Toussaire and up to Peyragudes that no one has any idea whether they'd have stuck if he'd continued.
So how was he the star?
This. There were a couple people I'd consider the star of the tour last year, Couple young Frenchies, Voeckler, Sagan who I don't trust. Tejay would have been one to if it wasn't for his disobeying team orders milarcy same goes for Froome, You're there to do a job not try and drop your leader, do it!It's not so much about winning, I just hate losing.0 -
I think Wiggins is a worthy champion, but I think we need to wait and see if he's a great champion. I think the whole knighthood thing is premature while we're at it, but that's a different story.0
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I suppose we can only wait and see then. See how Wiggins fares in the Giro and whether Froome can meet some peoples expectations by seeing off Contador in the Tour.
Not saying Bradley is NOT a great champion, just questioning it.0 -
Gabbo wrote:ddraver wrote:Sounds like your mind's made up Gabbo - who cares if we agree or not...
I just want to see it from another perspective, that's all.
From what I saw, Froome appeared to be the star of the show. Why? I don't know, but that is how it appeared to me. The next tour will be very interesting. But you know, I would have liked to have seen Bradley battle with someone like Contador
The thing is that because Sky had the race sewn up by the second week, the media deperately sought for other things to write up and the whole Froome thing got exaggerated in the absence of a GC battle like the '11 Tour. That contributed massively to a perception amongst some that Froome was the strongest rider. In fact, we'll never know what would have happened if Froome has been on a rival team - but even so, Sky were head and shoulders the strongest team in the Tour. Fact remains that he still finished 3.21 behind Wiggins - and that's a fair amount of time to have tried to put into Wiggins on the other stages. After all, Wiggins was the other strongest climber in last year's Tour.
Wiggins is going to go into battle with Nibbles and Hejesdal in the Giro...I'm pretty confident that he and Sky have the beating of Nibbles and Astana, but I think the Wiggins v Hejesdal and EQUALLY the Sky vs Garmin battles, are going to be very interesting...0 -
Wondering whether someone who has won the Tour is a great champion is like wondering if a Euromillions jackpot winner is rich. Some have more money than others, but they all very rich.Gabbo wrote:I suppose we can only wait and see then. See how Wiggins fares in the Giro and whether Froome can meet some peoples expectations by seeing off Contador in the Tour.
Not saying Bradley is NOT a great champion, just questioning it.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Yes.
He was in yellow for two weeks
Had to deal with an unruly teammate
Led out teammates for sprints
Helped slow everyone down when there were tacs on the road
And still won comfortably.
Chris froome would never in a million years taken over three minutes out of him on those climbs."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
He was already a "great champion" before last year - one of the greatest, in fact.
Just happened to be on the track.0 -
Bradley is a great champion, and Christopher had an awesome tour ride. Watch the ITV highlights shows for the mountain stages again (with the sound down obv). St Christopher does a fantastic job for Bradley on several occasions, pulling back Cadel or Vinny. I think Froome gets too much abuse for two moments of exuberant inexperience: no need to view his motives as being sinister despite the best intentions of Twitter gobsh1tes.
That said, I doubt anybody, including Alberto himself, was going to beat Bradley on that parcours, with that season behind him. Take into account the crushing weight of expectation on him for the entire 12 months since his 2011 collarbone fracture, and his track achievements, and it's churlish not to acknowledge Bradley as one of the sport's greats....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
yellow jersey leading out the sprint for a team mate to win in paris . says it all really .0
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no rider has ever won Paris Nice, Dauphine, Romandie and the Tour in the same year
no rider has won the Tour and Olympic Gold in the same year
6 olympic Golds - multiple world champ on the track
is he a great champion = of course he bloody well is"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
Re Wiggins, he was a worthy winner of a course that suited his attributes and as others have described beforehand, he won a lot before and after as well....
With regards the course, the climbs were steady, so he could engage the diesel engine and tap out tempo. the time trials were of a decent size and technical discipline for him to shine on them. Froome played his part but for me looked indisciplined, if left to his own devices, I think Nibali would have won if Wiggins wasn't there. Froome needs someone to calm him down! Neither of them would have got anywhere without Rogers or Richie Porte, EBH and Knees.
In terms of achievements during the tour, I think Sagan and Voeckler both did excellently, and enjoyed the fact that Greipel performed well with his 3 wins, and Cav, winning without a lead out train twice and then beating the field on his home patch was good.0 -
Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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^ this. Absolutely spot on.edhornby wrote:no rider has ever won Paris Nice, Dauphine, Romandie and the Tour in the same year
no rider has won the Tour and Olympic Gold in the same year
6 olympic Golds - multiple world champ on the track
is he a great champion = of course he bloody well isEcrasez l’infame0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?
If Froome hadnt have been there, Porte would have taken up his role (and I'd argue would have likely done as decent a job as Froome). And Danny Pate would have ridden the Tour to make up the 9th rider.0 -
Gabbo wrote:Sorry if this topic has been discussed to death but am wondering what your opinions on him as a champion are?
You've opened a can of worms here, Gabbo...
I'm a relative newcomer to road cycling, and the thing that strikes me is that there is so much more expected of a rider to be "Champion" than simply winning races. This is unlike other sports, where greatness is pretty much always measured by reference to success.
Thus, one can win races, but not be considered a Champion if one rides without panache or elan (which helpfully are subjective, undefined terms), particularly if compounded by being a wheelsucker.
In Wiggo's case, I suspect his fans will consider him a Great Champion and his detractors won't.0 -
90% chance given TT distance and Sky's budget allowing another Richie Porte in place of Froome. The 10% is for the times an early Nibali attack sticks encouraging more later attacks accumulating just enough time to hang on through final TT.TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?
If Froome hadnt have been there, Porte would have taken up his role (and I'd argue would have likely done as decent a job as Froome). And Danny Pate would have ridden the Tour to make up the 9th rider.
Of course he wouldn't.
As to Wiggins being a great champ; I'm not a fan of how he has won most of his victories but you can't take away that he's a great champion.0 -
ThomThom wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?
If Froome hadnt have been there, Porte would have taken up his role (and I'd argue would have likely done as decent a job as Froome). And Danny Pate would have ridden the Tour to make up the 9th rider.
Of course he wouldn't.
As to Wiggins being a great champ; I'm not a fan of how he has won most of his victories but you can't take away that he's a great champion.
Fight you outside for it, ThomThom?
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Wallace and Gromit wrote:Thus, one can win races, but not be considered a Champion if one rides without panache or elan (which helpfully are subjective, undefined terms), particularly if compounded by being a wheelsucker.
In Wiggo's case, I suspect his fans will consider him a Great Champion and his detractors won't.
But to be a True Fan of any sport you surely have to appreciate the performance and the humanity as much as the statistics. Take football (ugh) and compare palmares vs reputations of Petit vs Zidane, or Phil Thompson
vs Dalgleish... ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
As an aside I seriously want to see some good Wiggins-Martin-Phinney TT showdowns this year0
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Well Michelle Cound certainly thinks Froome was the star.
I don't really understand the need for people to undermine Wiggins' win. He won. He won the Tour de blooming France. Chapeau to him. That is impressive whoever it was and however (within the rules) they did it.
As for who was the 'real' star, whatever that even means, that just depends on your perspective. Wiggins was a star. Sagan was a star (even though for some reason I just can't warm to him). I thought on the day Millar won he was a star. Cav's win on stage 18 made him the star that day. Michael Morkov was a star for a while there at the beginning. Thibaut Pinot and Marc Madiot were stars on stage 8. That's what's so great about this sport it gives so many opportunities for greatness.Correlation is not causation.0 -
A GREAT champion takes the win himselftim000 wrote:yellow jersey leading out the sprint for a team mate to win in paris . says it all really .
As far as Wiggins goes, it's too soon to say. One great season does not make him a great champion. Those one-week stage race wins will not be remembered years from now. He has a few years left and if he wins this year's Giro he will be on his way.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:ThomThom wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Would Wiggins have won if Froome wasn't there?
If Froome hadnt have been there, Porte would have taken up his role (and I'd argue would have likely done as decent a job as Froome). And Danny Pate would have ridden the Tour to make up the 9th rider.
Of course he wouldn't.
As to Wiggins being a great champ; I'm not a fan of how he has won most of his victories but you can't take away that he's a great champion.
Fight you outside for it, ThomThom?
Ahh, but come on.. Get real here.. Let's not make Porte something he's not 0
