Sky and David Walsh

micron

Anti troll clearly the wink to indicate that it was a joke passed all and sundry by - or perhaps it's just easier to ignore the joke and simply see the stick to beat someone with? As for how this all may end up with sky - isn't it sad that either you or I should even be talking about the possibility of another team going Postal? Like it or not, that's where the sport is - and what has wiggins or Froome or sky done to earn a trust you wouldn't give to other teams?

You know doc, if I thought this wasn't all a massive pissing contest to prove who's the cleverest I might just oblige. Let's just say that you'd be surprised what some of those people you admire on twitter have to say

rob churchill

micron wrote:

Anti troll clearly the wink to indicate that it was a joke passed all and sundry by

To be fair micron, I'm beginning think that if your job involved issuing decrees nisi, 'Do Not Resuscitate' orders, or ASBOs you'd put winks on them.

AntiTroll

micron wrote:

Anti troll clearly the wink to indicate that it was a joke passed all and sundry by - or perhaps it's just easier to ignore the joke and simply see the stick to beat someone with? As for how this all may end up with sky - isn't it sad that either you or I should even be talking about the possibility of another team going Postal? Like it or not, that's where the sport is - and what has wiggins or Froome or sky done to earn a trust you wouldn't give to other teams?

You know doc, if I thought this wasn't all a massive pissing contest to prove who's the cleverest I might just oblige. Let's just say that you'd be surprised what some of those people you admire on twitter have to say

You should really quit with the winks ALL the time. You use them far far too much, all it does is create ambiguity over what you're trying to say and to be blunt, it makes you sound very sarky, it does however give you an avenue to backtrack out of anything you say though.
Furthermore (my own fault admittedly) they're near impossible to see on the phone's screen!
I also think you avoided the question, what is it about Bradley Wiggins that grinds your gears, sure he can be a bit of an arse but does that warrant the witch hunt (yes I went there) that is developing.

Also re other teams, I think you should be asking yourself that question - hypocrisy at its best.

FF: Thanks, you're right about the username but easier to keep track by keeping the same name as elsewhere!

EKIMIKE

OCDuPalais wrote:

Lawyer's Edit (thanks EKIMIKE*)



*May have to go back to my clumsy original if I can't afford the re-wording fee - what's that, 45 seconds rounded-up to 6 hours?

Well, considering i'm not a lawyer and just one of those scumbag students, someone from the Daily Mail who owns a calculator would probably conclude that I in fact owe you several hundred pounds and 20 hours of free labour, Mr OCDuPalais.

Anyway sorry for pedantically ruining a perfectly sound point.

No_Ta_Doctor

micron wrote:

You know doc, if I thought this wasn't all a massive pissing contest to prove who's the cleverest I might just oblige. Let's just say that you'd be surprised what some of those people you admire on twitter have to say

I'm not sure who it is I admire on twitter, can't really think of anyone off-hand. But wink or no wink, you're doing the "I know something you don't" shit again. Whispering in public is exceptionally rude, you know.

No wink.

micron

Oh and I thought I was just doing the 'bored of the pissing contest' thing.

Macaloon

micron wrote:

Oh and I thought I was just doing the 'bored of the pissing contest' thing.

bompington

micron wrote:

Oh and I thought I was just doing the 'bored of the pissing contest' thing.

I'm sorry, but that seems extremely disingenuous - I don't do Twitter, but everything I've seen from you in here suggests that the pissing contest is actually what it's all about for you. With the sly "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" stuff which is the closest you get to actually offering any evidence, and the manipuilative and distracting language, I have to ask - have you ever thought of a career in politics?

slim_boy_fat

bompington wrote:

micron wrote:

Oh and I thought I was just doing the 'bored of the pissing contest' thing.

I'm sorry, but that seems extremely disingenuous - I don't do Twitter, but everything I've seen from you in here suggests that the pissing contest is actually what it's all about for you. With the sly "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" stuff which is the closest you get to actually offering any evidence, and the manipuilative and distracting language, I have to ask - have you ever thought of a career in politics?

I lol'd!

Genius.

Got to admit I have completely lost track of what Micron, thinks, wants or stands for. She really doesn't seem to be put anything across or replying to peoples opinions or questions. Just a lot of defensive posturing and misdirection.

Squaggles

Just Bradley doping ? All Sky ? Cav ? Other track cyclists ?

RichN95.

Squaggles wrote:

Just Bradley doping ? All Sky ? Cav ? Other track cyclists ?

Richmond Racer

Not little innocent Swifty too? And his two dogs? Because they're often seen in Sky kit

Macaloon

Macaloon wrote:

Pierre Rolland's rictus pain face. Ta

Super. Thanks.

Snakbar

Hi everyone. I'm pretty new to the world of cycling and have a question related to Sky's new approach to racing.

How important is having a strong mind to the cyclist? And have pro teams heavily used top sports psychiatrist in the past? I've poked about many forums and not really seen any discussion regarding the role Steve Peters plays. Could he provide another of those marginal gains that I hear so much about? After seeing the effect he had on Ronnie O'Sullivan it's something I've been meaning to ask a time served cycling fanatic...

I think this is the right place to ask such a question but if I'm wrong to the point of annoyance, please forgive me as it wasn't my intention..

frenchfighter

Snakbar wrote:

How important is having a strong mind to the cyclist?

Hey Snakbar. I'd say it was a very important element because often races are not won by the strongest of body alone. I have heard many pros refer to the strength of mind as key to separate the top riders.

Eg/. Ted King here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChMKD91RZQ

Contador said himself that the hardest thing about his 2009 TdF win was the mental pressure he was put under by Lance and Johan Bruyneel as well as others. The racing he said was fine. Had he cracked and suffered mentally he would not have won.

It is probably similar to other sports with respect to the benefit of mental fortitude, with cycling being above average.

AntiTroll

Squaggles wrote:

Just Bradley doping ? All Sky ? Cav ? Other track cyclists ?

Apparently: everybody who wins a race, everybody who has a break through ride, everybody who rides consistently through the season, everybody who doesn't ride consistently through the season, everybody who has been in a 10m radius of anyone involved in doping. Everybody. :roll:

iainf72

No tA Doctor wrote:

micron wrote:

look at the vaughters/andreu SMS conversation now enshrined in the USADA reasoned decision as evidence - when that first emerged it was immediately explained away by the fanboys as innuendo, speculation, at best a joke at worst lies

Now that's a good solid piece of evidence. It needed to questioned (what was it's providence? was it genuine?) but there you have two riders informally discussing doping in the peloton and naming names. If you have anything like that on Sky then please provide it.

Is that the evidence where Floyd had the photos, Jan was a lovely clean man who didn't race with a HCT about 40 and Floyds blood bag got flushed? And out of those, how many turned out to be true? Baffles me WTF that was in the USADA evidence.

No_Ta_Doctor

iainf72 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

micron wrote:

look at the vaughters/andreu SMS conversation now enshrined in the USADA reasoned decision as evidence - when that first emerged it was immediately explained away by the fanboys as innuendo, speculation, at best a joke at worst lies

Now that's a good solid piece of evidence. It needed to questioned (what was it's providence? was it genuine?) but there you have two riders informally discussing doping in the peloton and naming names. If you have anything like that on Sky then please provide it.

Is that the evidence where Floyd had the photos, Jan was a lovely clean man who didn't race with a HCT about 40 and Floyds blood bag got flushed? And out of those, how many turned out to be true? Baffles me WTF that was in the USADA evidence.

Christ, I'd forgotten some of those bits. Except the bit about Jan, which I never believed anyway.
:oops:

iainf72

micron wrote:

As I said elsewhere, a group of us fans - headed up by Scott - were trying to set something up at the same time - we got superseded.

Thanks for the response.

For what it's worth, I think the whole fans thing is misguided. Sponsors put money into team and / or races for publicity, but not just to a small demographic of people who are really into the sport. It's more the casual punter they want to pick up (well explained by the Liquigas marketing man in 2010)

There are too many chickens talking about trying to fix things and not enough pigs.

EKIMIKE

frenchfighter wrote:

Eg/. Ted King here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChMKD91RZQ

Wow, that is a TERRIBLE example. True, the ability to cope mentally is definitely a strong factor which can separate contenders, but to suggest that "everyone" has the "same physical condition" and that the only determinant factor is "mental fortitude" - jesus christ! ARGH!

Sounds like Ted King either got scripted or was so compelled, by having a camera shoved in front of him, to trot out that undying American slogan that all you need to achieve anything is to want it enough.

A bit of my soul has just died.

Snakbar

frenchfighter wrote:

Snakbar wrote:

How important is having a strong mind to the cyclist?

Hey Snakbar. I'd say it was a very important element because often races are not won by the strongest of body alone. I have heard many pros refer to the strength of mind as key to separate the top riders.

Eg/. Ted King here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChMKD91RZQ

Contador said himself that the hardest thing about his 2009 TdF win was the mental pressure he was put under by Lance and Johan Bruyneel as well as others. The racing he said was fine. Had he cracked and suffered mentally he would not have won.

It is probably similar to other sports with respect to the benefit of mental fortitude, with cycling being above average.

Thanks for the reply FF. So Steve Peters role at Sky would have a big effect on results. I think I'll see if I can find some more info on other teams commitments to employing psychiatrists as I'm starting to think it pays big dividends.

EKIMIKE

It certainly helps. Psychology is often underestimated. I think what Peters' work with Team Sky and BC shows is that it's not just about the macho, fist pumping, shouting "YES!", kind of psychology that helps sports people. It's about wider psychology and addressing fears and difficulties that are not just purely sport related.

One thing I would say though is that it is a marginal gain. So whilst it may pay dividends, it would probably be wise to be cautious on how big those dividends are. There are many pieces to the jigsaw in elite sport.

Macaloon

In this regard I'm a big fan of the track programme's use of the secondary placebo effect. I don't recall the precise details but it's something like BC removed the branding from their factory standard wheels and allowed the rumour to spread that they were made from exotic off-planet unobtanium. Laughing at French protests of unfair advantage must have relieved much track centre tension.

micron

Iainf you're welcome - and of course your right, re: fan 'involvement'. We were inspired by the bundesliga where fans do have an input - and there are some passionate, well informed fan groups out here. But, yes, in terms of the bigger picture, a 'fan voice' don't amount to a hill of beans - sponsors & teams obviously target the casual punter - preaching to the converted achieves little/nothing. We were motivated by the desire to do something instead of sitting around whingeing about how awful things were - but you can't please everyone. And, as you point out, strongly engaged fans are a very small constituency of the larger fan base. When CCN happened, me and Scott spent a lot of time patiently explaining that we were representing a 'fan voice' rather than ever seeking to represent all fans - that voice is too diverse, and perhaps that's also the problem. Better to try and get elected to BC and donit through 'official channels' (would use a wink here but have been told off for overuse).

Lot of talk about Cookson for next head of UCI - not a bad choice but would love to see gaudry succeed as a genuine breath of fresh air - and a woman - too many middle aged men in suits in aigle

frenchfighter

Snakbar wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Snakbar wrote:

How important is having a strong mind to the cyclist?

Hey Snakbar. I'd say it was a very important element because often races are not won by the strongest of body alone. I have heard many pros refer to the strength of mind as key to separate the top riders.

Eg/. Ted King here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChMKD91RZQ

Contador said himself that the hardest thing about his 2009 TdF win was the mental pressure he was put under by Lance and Johan Bruyneel as well as others. The racing he said was fine. Had he cracked and suffered mentally he would not have won.

It is probably similar to other sports with respect to the benefit of mental fortitude, with cycling being above average.

Thanks for the reply FF. So Steve Peters role at Sky would have a big effect on results. I think I'll see if I can find some more info on other teams commitments to employing psychiatrists as I'm starting to think it pays big dividends.

I think they probably take it from the British Cycling track team. Supposedly lots of them would go and see the guy involved with these sorts of things. Pendleton particularly was a huge beneficiary, given she used to suffer mentally quite badly.

frenchfighter

Macaloon wrote:

In this regard I'm a big fan of the track programme's use of the secondary placebo effect. I don't recall the precise details but it's something like BC removed the branding from their factory standard wheels and allowed the rumour to spread that they were made from exotic off-planet unobtanium. Laughing at French protests of unfair advantage must have relieved much track centre tension.

Yeah, this is pretty clever.

tailwindhome

Hmmm.

So the only thing to be resolved now is who's using Anti Troll as an alter ego?

Macaloon

AntiTroll wrote:

Women's racing was briefly discussed, market forces got a bashing (bye bye economics MSc of mine).

Confessed to post-grad voodoo studies in 1st post. He/she wants to be discovered! It's tough, though, when a new Sim is used for every post.

Rodrego Hernandez

Macaloon wrote:

In this regard I'm a big fan of the track programme's use of the secondary placebo effect. I don't recall the precise details but it's something like BC removed the branding from their factory standard wheels and allowed the rumour to spread that they were made from exotic off-planet unobtanium. Laughing at French protests of unfair advantage must have relieved much track centre tension.

They weren't factory standard wheels. BC dodged a bullet on that one.

PBo

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

In this regard I'm a big fan of the track programme's use of the secondary placebo effect. I don't recall the precise details but it's something like BC removed the branding from their factory standard wheels and allowed the rumour to spread that they were made from exotic off-planet unobtanium. Laughing at French protests of unfair advantage must have relieved much track centre tension.

They weren't factory standard wheels. BC dodged a bullet on that one.

No, they weren't factory standard, they "were more round!". Brilliant.