Edge 800 useless for anything it's designed for...

135

Comments

  • rich164h
    rich164h Posts: 433
    VTech wrote:
    Totally invalid argument, im not and have not argued with the fact I paid £350 (rep £399) for the device.
    If I had made this argument then your post above would stand but instead it has no bearing because I didn't.
    In fact, my point was that due to being a cycle product they have the ability to charge more than they would/could if it were for a car.
    No, because there is no equivalent product for a car. It has a few functions that are the same but overall it's a completely different product. Like I said, you might as well compare a £10 timex wrist watch with the edge800 because they both tell the time. With no direct comparisons how can you tell that this product is over priced?

    This is why I made the reference to cycling clothes. There's simply no way that in terms of function alone that the likes of ASSOS and Rapha can justify being 10 times more expensive that other brands. I don't doubt that they are better quality and more desirable brands (or that this has a value for which people are willing to pay for), but functionally they are not 10 times better. You certainly don't find the same thing with running clothes for instance yet in the cycling world paying nearly £200 for a fancy t-shirt is somehow acceptable. ok, I know that a running top and a cycling top are also different in terms of shape and pockets, but it's a closer functional comparison than an edge800 and a tomtom.
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    rich164h wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    Totally invalid argument, im not and have not argued with the fact I paid £350 (rep £399) for the device.
    If I had made this argument then your post above would stand but instead it has no bearing because I didn't.
    In fact, my point was that due to being a cycle product they have the ability to charge more than they would/could if it were for a car.
    No, because there is no equivalent product for a car. It has a few functions that are the same but overall it's a completely different product. Like I said, you might as well compare a £10 timex wrist watch with the edge800 because they both tell the time. With no direct comparisons how can you tell that this product is over priced?

    This is why I made the reference to cycling clothes. There's simply no way that in terms of function alone that the likes of ASSOS and Rapha can justify being 10 times more expensive that other brands. I don't doubt that they are better quality and more desirable brands (or that this has a value for which people are willing to pay for), but functionally they are not 10 times better. You certainly don't find the same thing with running clothes for instance yet in the cycling world paying nearly £200 for a fancy t-shirt is somehow acceptable. ok, I know that a running top and a cycling top are also different in terms of shape and pockets, but it's a closer functional comparison than an edge800 and a tomtom.

    Finally we are getting closer but your still off a little.
    Im not arguing about the product or what it does, ive not used it in its true terms of a cedence meter, a route planner or heart rate monitor.
    Im referring to the extortionate costs of the Sat-Nav updates to make it work like any other sat nav.
    You will have never heard me say any negative of the product based on any other function that the sat-nav issue.
    Living MY dream.
  • Brakeless
    Brakeless Posts: 865
    VTech wrote:
    rich164h wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    Totally invalid argument, im not and have not argued with the fact I paid £350 (rep £399) for the device.
    If I had made this argument then your post above would stand but instead it has no bearing because I didn't.
    In fact, my point was that due to being a cycle product they have the ability to charge more than they would/could if it were for a car.
    No, because there is no equivalent product for a car. It has a few functions that are the same but overall it's a completely different product. Like I said, you might as well compare a £10 timex wrist watch with the edge800 because they both tell the time. With no direct comparisons how can you tell that this product is over priced?

    This is why I made the reference to cycling clothes. There's simply no way that in terms of function alone that the likes of ASSOS and Rapha can justify being 10 times more expensive that other brands. I don't doubt that they are better quality and more desirable brands (or that this has a value for which people are willing to pay for), but functionally they are not 10 times better. You certainly don't find the same thing with running clothes for instance yet in the cycling world paying nearly £200 for a fancy t-shirt is somehow acceptable. ok, I know that a running top and a cycling top are also different in terms of shape and pockets, but it's a closer functional comparison than an edge800 and a tomtom.

    Finally we are getting closer but your still off a little.
    Im not arguing about the product or what it does, ive not used it in its true terms of a cedence meter, a route planner or heart rate monitor.
    Im referring to the extortionate costs of the Sat-Nav updates to make it work like any other sat nav.
    You will have never heard me say any negative of the product based on any other function that the sat-nav issue.

    Have you actualy read the title of your thread?
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    Brakeless wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    rich164h wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    Totally invalid argument, im not and have not argued with the fact I paid £350 (rep £399) for the device.
    If I had made this argument then your post above would stand but instead it has no bearing because I didn't.
    In fact, my point was that due to being a cycle product they have the ability to charge more than they would/could if it were for a car.
    No, because there is no equivalent product for a car. It has a few functions that are the same but overall it's a completely different product. Like I said, you might as well compare a £10 timex wrist watch with the edge800 because they both tell the time. With no direct comparisons how can you tell that this product is over priced?

    This is why I made the reference to cycling clothes. There's simply no way that in terms of function alone that the likes of ASSOS and Rapha can justify being 10 times more expensive that other brands. I don't doubt that they are better quality and more desirable brands (or that this has a value for which people are willing to pay for), but functionally they are not 10 times better. You certainly don't find the same thing with running clothes for instance yet in the cycling world paying nearly £200 for a fancy t-shirt is somehow acceptable. ok, I know that a running top and a cycling top are also different in terms of shape and pockets, but it's a closer functional comparison than an edge800 and a tomtom.

    Finally we are getting closer but your still off a little.
    Im not arguing about the product or what it does, ive not used it in its true terms of a cedence meter, a route planner or heart rate monitor.
    Im referring to the extortionate costs of the Sat-Nav updates to make it work like any other sat nav.
    You will have never heard me say any negative of the product based on any other function that the sat-nav issue.

    Have you actualy read the title of your thread?


    I didnt post the thread, I was simply replying to the guy who did.
    Living MY dream.
  • Brakeless
    Brakeless Posts: 865
    Ooops - Apologies :roll:
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    no problem.
    just because I believe im right doesnt mean I am. If truth be told, my wife calls me victor meldrew, I have no idea why :)
    Living MY dream.
  • gloomyandy
    gloomyandy Posts: 520
    I think somewhere back on about page one or two it was pointed out that the map add ons (which is what i think you are complaining about) are not the same for the 800 and a car sat nav. The bike versions contain a bunch more details of cycle paths, and other routes. So we now have two different products, one of which is sold to a lower volume less competitive market, no big surprise that it costs more to buy. But then again it will probably cost more to make as well (lower volumes, possible higher cost of lic. the additional data, preparing it etc.).
  • ShutUpLegs
    ShutUpLegs Posts: 3,522
    VTech wrote:
    no problem.
    just because I believe im right doesnt mean I am. If truth be told, my wife calls me victor meldrew, I have no idea why :)

    http://sy.pe/BJEV
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    VTech wrote:
    just because I believe im right doesnt mean I am.

    No sh!t !
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    ShutUpLegs, Very funny :)

    MattC59, Read your signature.
    Living MY dream.
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    VTech wrote:
    ShutUpLegs, Very funny :)

    MattC59, Read your signature.

    I assume that you refer to the second line, which has nothing to do with that which I wrote, or for that matter, what you wrote.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    MattC59 wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    ShutUpLegs, Very funny :)

    MattC59, Read your signature.

    I assume that you refer to the second line, which has nothing to do with that which I wrote, or for that matter, what you wrote.

    And there is the issue, I was referring to the first line.
    Living MY dream.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    The 800 is the top of the range unit and the price compares with the top car sat navs. When you look at it this way and take into account how much more it does you could almost call it a bargain. The cheap car sat navs are old tech and very basic.
    What are these expensive updates we are supposed to be having to make? I haven't and mine works fine. It cost me £250 for the basic unit as I already had HR and speed sensors from my 500 which I sold on for a good price.
    Ducks and exits stage left.
    My Fleet.
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    John.T wrote:
    The 800 is the top of the range unit and the price compares with the top car sat navs. When you look at it this way and take into account how much more it does you could almost call it a bargain. The cheap car sat navs are old tech and very basic.
    What are these expensive updates we are supposed to be having to make? I haven't and mine works fine. It cost me £250 for the basic unit as I already had HR and speed sensors from my 500 which I sold on for a good price.
    Ducks and exits stage left.

    I see what your saying and its always going to be hard for people to post here now as most wont want to read the whole 4 pages but im not moaning about the price of the unit. If it were £800 and people chose to buy it then fine, thats not the part im moaning about. Its about upgrades for devices within a family of products where in one sector you pay one price and within another you pay a different.
    People could argue that with the bike setup you get side and country roads but at the same time on a car setup you get motorways, service stations, gas stations, speed cameras, speed limits, re-routing to a higher level etc etc etc.
    Yes its swings and roundabouts but let it be clear, im not and never will moan at the purchase price as this really is a case of you it or leave it. I chose to buy.
    Living MY dream.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    VTech wrote:
    John.T wrote:
    The 800 is the top of the range unit and the price compares with the top car sat navs. When you look at it this way and take into account how much more it does you could almost call it a bargain. The cheap car sat navs are old tech and very basic.
    What are these expensive updates we are supposed to be having to make? I haven't and mine works fine. It cost me £250 for the basic unit as I already had HR and speed sensors from my 500 which I sold on for a good price.
    Ducks and exits stage left.

    I see what your saying and its always going to be hard for people to post here now as most wont want to read the whole 4 pages but im not moaning about the price of the unit. If it were £800 and people chose to buy it then fine, thats not the part im moaning about. Its about upgrades for devices within a family of products where in one sector you pay one price and within another you pay a different.
    People could argue that with the bike setup you get side and country roads but at the same time on a car setup you get motorways, service stations, gas stations, speed cameras, speed limits, re-routing to a higher level etc etc etc.
    Yes its swings and roundabouts but let it be clear, im not and never will moan at the purchase price as this really is a case of you it or leave it. I chose to buy.
    Try getting OSM maps on a car sat nav. You can however put a large number of (free) POIs on the better ones. The OSM maps for cycle use include many POIs such as pubs, some cafes, supermarkets etc. Not perfect but free. The only upgrades I see available for the 800 are the various maps which while expensive are cheaper than buying the same coverage on paper.
    I agree about the price differentials for maps on the car sat navs. I have recently changed my Snooper unit to a Garmin Dezl just because of this. The Garmin came with free lifetime map updates while the Snooper cost £84 each time. The Garmin is a much better unit as well as I can add my own POIs.
    To return to the original post he was just slagging off the 800 without first finding out if he had a faulty one. He had the same post on the Garmin forum. As he may have found out there are many people who have no trouble and like their 800s regardless of whether they are over priced.
    My Fleet.
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    VTech wrote:
    I see what your saying and its always going to be hard for people to post here now as most wont want to read the whole 4 pages but im not moaning about the price of the unit. If it were £800 and people chose to buy it then fine, thats not the part im moaning about. Its about upgrades for devices within a family of products where in one sector you pay one price and within another you pay a different.
    People could argue that with the bike setup you get side and country roads but at the same time on a car setup you get motorways, service stations, gas stations, speed cameras, speed limits, re-routing to a higher level etc etc etc.
    Yes its swings and roundabouts but let it be clear, im not and never will moan at the purchase price as this really is a case of you it or leave it. I chose to buy.

    Ah, so its the price of the maps you're complaining about? Well, that changes nothing. People who've just spent £300 on a bike computer are quite likely to spend £80 on maps. This information is freely available before you buy. If you don't like it, install the OSM ones.
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    Not sure your getting my point.
    With the help of people here I do have the OSM maps installed but that doesnt change the fact that the 800 is still marketed as a sat nag system regardless of other functions when in fact it is far from an operative sat nav system and yet when you want to upgrade which again, I was happy to do they want to charge twice the price as they would if I wanted to upgrade for other systems in their range.
    The money IS NOT THE ISSUE, my point was and has been about cyclists being ripped, im still waiting for anyone to justify the argument with me.
    Living MY dream.
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    Since apparently no-one is getting your point, I wonder if the problem might be that you haven't made it clearly?

    Regardless, I can't get excited TBH. Yes of course Garmin try to lock you into their range of products, then bend you over and roger you senseless, but that's just the way the world works. And cyclists who spend £300+ on an entirely unecessary product will suffer a higher upgrade charge than the car satnav user who can buy a whole new system for £79. Whoda thunk it?
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    Froomes Edgar wrote:
    Since apparently no-one is getting your point, I wonder if the problem might be that you haven't made it clearly?

    Regardless, I can't get excited TBH. Yes of course Garmin try to lock you into their range of products, then bend you over and roger you senseless, but that's just the way the world works. And cyclists who spend £300+ on an entirely unecessary product will suffer a higher upgrade charge than the car satnav user who can buy a whole new system for £79. Whoda thunk it?

    100%
    Living MY dream.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    VTech wrote:
    Not sure your getting my point.
    With the help of people here I do have the OSM maps installed but that doesnt change the fact that the 800 is still marketed as a sat nag system regardless of other functions when in fact it is far from an operative sat nav system and yet when you want to upgrade which again, I was happy to do they want to charge twice the price as they would if I wanted to upgrade for other systems in their range.
    The money IS NOT THE ISSUE, my point was and has been about cyclists being ripped, im still waiting for anyone to justify the argument with me.
    I am still waiting for you to tell me about these expensive upgrades for the 800. I know of non.
    As for not being an operative sat nav system mine seems OK. It does pretty well everything my car one does except talk to me. The screen is smaller and you have to zoom in for the finer detail but that is no trouble.
    As for cyclists being ripped off. My 800 was cheaper than my Dezl and does much more. Both are well suited to what I use them for and I do not consider either of them to be any more of a rip off than many other things nowadays. Companies do have other costs other than production and these have to be recouped from sales. The £70 sat navs are sold as budget items because there is a market for them and development costs have been recovered. If you want the latest premium items then you pay the premium. That is the way of the world, not just cycling stuff.
    My Fleet.
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    VTech wrote:
    MattC59 wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    ShutUpLegs, Very funny :)

    MattC59, Read your signature.

    I assume that you refer to the second line, which has nothing to do with that which I wrote, or for that matter, what you wrote.

    And there is the issue, I was referring to the first line.

    Neither line are relevant to your ill informed ramblings.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • flasher
    flasher Posts: 1,734
    VTech wrote:
    With the help of people here I do have the OSM maps installed but that doesnt change the fact that the 800 is still marketed as a sat nag system regardless of other functions when in fact it is far from an operative sat nav system and yet when you want to upgrade which again, I was happy to do they want to charge twice the price as they would if I wanted to upgrade for other systems in their range.

    That's not correct, it's sold first and foremost as a bike computer with mapping compatibility. Team Garmin-Sharp use them (along with the 500) during races and (I'm guessing here :wink: ) don't need turn by turn directions to get to the finish line.
    Garmin wrote:
    Touchscreen GPS bike computer with mapping compatibility for training, touring and on the trail
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    Still waiting for anyone to give me a SINGLE argument to counter my "ramblings"
    I think I now have an ideal why some of you guys like being ripped, you dont have the sense to realise that its happening.

    As for the money aspect as pointed out, I cant stress enough that that isnt the issue, after all, you dont know if im broke or a multi-millionaire, the point im making has been made very clearly. Im losing no sleep about it, I simply mentioned it on a forum then had to endure several people arguing against me with points that simply back up my own.
    I have to say, I love it here.
    Living MY dream.
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    According to the Garmin website, https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID ... cale=en_GB, the Garmin 800 is a "Touchscreen GPS bike computer with mapping compatibility". You don't need maps to use it
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    Froomes Edgar wrote:
    According to the Garmin website, https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID ... cale=en_GB, the Garmin 800 is a "Touchscreen GPS bike computer with mapping compatibility". You don't need maps to use it


    But ive never complained about the 800, that wa sa mistake the guy earlier made as I wasnt the one making the thread.
    My point was only ever about the cost of the software update in reference to other sectors of garmins business.
    Im not upset with them for doing it either, thats business and im all for getting the best price for my goods. I was simply asking wether it was a cycle thing and wondered if it was simply accepted as such which I think it is.
    Living MY dream.
  • Froomes Edgar
    Froomes Edgar Posts: 359
    Okay, its not just a cycle thing - companies overcharge customers who for whatever reason can't go elsewhere all the time. But yes, I think we all accept it happens in the cycling industry.

    Happy now?
  • flasher
    flasher Posts: 1,734
    VTech wrote:
    Still waiting for anyone to give me a SINGLE argument to counter my "ramblings"
    I think I now have an ideal why some of you guys like being ripped, you dont have the sense to realise that its happening.

    Have you actually read any of the previous 5 pages.

    A car sat nav is sold purely as a guidance system to get a driver from point A to point B, whereas the Garmin 800 is sold as a training aid with added GPS ability.

    Because the 800 user has different needs, on/off road, geographical boundaries it's sold as a base unit, a unit with assorted mapping, a unit with assorted mapping and heart rate/cadence ability, you buy what you need to fill the functions you want. The Garmin 800 does the following:

    Records speed.
    Records heart rate.
    Record cadence.
    Let you downloads routes once ridden.
    Lets you upload pre planned routes.
    Operate off its own rechargeable power source.
    Is it waterproof.
    Is it Light and Compact.

    A car sat nav does none of the above.

    I have 4 bikes, and can transfer the 800 between them rather than having a base generic bike computer on each, I think it works out at a reasonable cost, of course I'd rather pay less but that goes for food/energy bills/housing costs/Assos bibs :wink:
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    VTec, you are TheBigBee and I claim my £5.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    VTech wrote:
    My point was only ever about the cost of the software update in reference to other sectors of garmins business
    Please tell me what software update for the 800 you are talking about that costs so much and is so annoying you. If it is not for the 800 then it is not relevant to this thread, which has gone way off anyway.
    Or do you just have an axe to grind.
    My Fleet.
  • VTech
    VTech Posts: 4,736
    John.T wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    My point was only ever about the cost of the software update in reference to other sectors of garmins business
    Please tell me what software update for the 800 you are talking about that costs so much and is so annoying you. If it is not for the 800 then it is not relevant to this thread, which has gone way off anyway.
    Or do you just have an axe to grind.

    Im not annoyed, im thoroughly amused in fact :mrgreen:
    I made a point based on my view of cyclists and how the market reacts. I have a right to my thoughts and simply expressed them, since then I seem to have rattled a few people wanting to argue the toss and instead of putting a valid point back to me have instead argued with me using the very points I have placed in the first instance.

    To help those unable to understand ill make a few case references.

    1) Arguing that the 800 is much more than a sat nav when ive never argued that there is an issue with the 800
    2) Arguing that because the market is held mainly by Garmin they can charge what they want when I have never mentioned that this is a negative issue.
    3) Arguing that if I dont like it I dont need to buy when it has already been pointed out that I have purchased one and have never made a comment to suggest that the unit isnt worth the money wether I actually believe that or not.

    To assit JohnT, the issue I have made has been down to the fact that I personally believe that cyclists are taken advantage of in the pricing structure of several (in fact many) product sellers. But that is broken down into far worse sections including;

    With Garmin, you can buy a satnav with city navigator for £79 yet to just have the city navigator software for the 800 costs £79 (retail).

    When pointing out such irregularities people jump to the protection of said companies mentioning that this is business and accept it.

    When someone like me points out that they believe this is more common place in cycling than in other sectors, not only do people jump to the rescue of the provider but then try and do everything they can to attack the person pointing it out.

    This is fabulous for the provider, not only can they charge for the pleasure of it, they have the people who are being ripped fighting to make it justified in the first instance.
    Living MY dream.

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