Tour de San Luis *spoiler*

jerry3571

I think over the years we would have a better understanding on how things work. Have we learnt nothing??

Truth of the matter is, in the last few years, the riders had to be in condition all year otherwise they would be flagged up by Anti Doping when they needed to have good form and their parameters would openly shoot off the scale.
I am pretty sure a few years ago that one of the bench marks in the year for recording rider's blood parameters was just after Xmas. This was suppose to catch Riders in the Off Season when they wouldn't be doping. Trouble is now, the riders have cancelled their Off Seasons so their parameters can remain artificially high so they can race without suspicion when they need to crank it up.


Jerry

(Just to say that I was ignored when I put a thread up about LA/Bruyneel and UCI being in bed together before 2008 and also I knew AC would be busted for drugs after he left Bruyneel, which was once again ignored. So I'm not trolling; just seeing things as they are.)

frenchfighter

Scenery:

rick_chasey

Can't find it on my phone but there's a good vid of cav saving what looks like a sure fire cradh. Floating around on twitter somewhere.

ddraver

jerry3571 wrote:

I think over the years we would have a better understanding on how things work. Have we learnt nothing??

Truth of the matter is, in the last few years, the riders had to be in condition all year otherwise they would be flagged up by Anti Doping when they needed to have good form and their parameters would openly shoot off the scale.
I am pretty sure a few years ago that one of the bench marks in the year for recording rider's blood parameters was just after Xmas. This was suppose to catch Riders in the Off Season when they wouldn't be doping. Trouble is now, the riders have cancelled their Off Seasons so their parameters can remain artificially high so they can race without suspicion when they need to crank it up.


Jerry

(Just to say that I was ignored when I put a thread up about LA/Bruyneel and UCI being in bed together before 2008 and also I knew AC would be busted for drugs after he left Bruyneel, which was once again ignored. So I'm not trolling; just seeing things as they are.)

Trouble is that is nt the "Truth of the matter" It's something you ve made up...but for a second, taking your wild accusation at face value, wouldnt it be easier to just keep topping up the blood values? Half a dose here, a smaller dose there...

Richmond Racer

Skillz from Cav in staying upright in the final sprint of the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwmxU-uR050

rick_chasey

There it is.

Pross

What the hell happen there? It looks almost like he's doing the old Renshaw head butt!

jerry3571

ddraver wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

I think over the years we would have a better understanding on how things work. Have we learnt nothing??

Truth of the matter is, in the last few years, the riders had to be in condition all year otherwise they would be flagged up by Anti Doping when they needed to have good form and their parameters would openly shoot off the scale.
I am pretty sure a few years ago that one of the bench marks in the year for recording rider's blood parameters was just after Xmas. This was suppose to catch Riders in the Off Season when they wouldn't be doping. Trouble is now, the riders have cancelled their Off Seasons so their parameters can remain artificially high so they can race without suspicion when they need to crank it up.


Jerry

(Just to say that I was ignored when I put a thread up about LA/Bruyneel and UCI being in bed together before 2008 and also I knew AC would be busted for drugs after he left Bruyneel, which was once again ignored. So I'm not trolling; just seeing things as they are.)

Trouble is that is nt the "Truth of the matter" It's something you ve made up...but for a second, taking your wild accusation at face value, wouldnt it be easier to just keep topping up the blood values? Half a dose here, a smaller dose there...

I think we're saying the same thing. If the year's Blood Values are based on the Off Season results then these riders would be in good condition around this time. This is what we're seeing now at San Luis; the top riders in good form.
For decades before, a race like this would obviously be given to a Team mate rather than their top GC rider so the favour would be returned in the big races. There are many domestiques who could be in good form to go for a stage win or the GC in a race like this; why the top guys?
In the previous editions of the San Luis, Nibali, Leipheimer and Contador has been thrashing each other for a victory in this race and the race hasn't even got any proper TV coverage. The youtube tv footage for this race is appalling. The Coverage is so bad that even seeing the sponsor's name is only visible when they cross the line. This race is joke.
Here's an example-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97G2GclcoEk

Unless the sponsors have got reasons to be wanting their product being publicised in Argentina (not that the tv can pick up the sponsors name on the tv coverage) then I have no idea why they are riding like this.
I'm not saying that I got the answers but no one else here can provide a decent explanation.

To be honest, I lost faith in any rider or team to be straight after Neil Stephens mentioned that "why would he dope when he has a Wife and Children?", he then got busted in the Festina Affair. There ended any faith at all in clean cycling and I have never trusted any of them after that.
Sorry to be cynical but it's a cynical sport.

Jerry

ddraver

We re saying the exact opposite thing

jerry3571

Can you explain why top gc riders are in really good form at this time of year in a tinpot local race?? I'm willing to learn!

ddraver

I have nt seen any riders in really good form thus far (admittedly I ve watched naff all thus far). FF put a picture of an ex tour winner 100m in front of the broom wagon yesterday

A Dutch bloke I ve never heard of won Tour down under from a guy that rides into form in the Southern summer because he's an Aussie and makes the bulk of his money that way. Greipel always cleans up the sprints at the TdU becasue no one else gives a monkeys about it, an Argentinian no one has ever heard of won the only Argentinian SR.

No one is in any kind of form yet....

I'm afraid your cynicism has blinded you, I suggest you have a few seasons watching something different. You clearly can't gain much pleasure from watching Pro Cycling....

deejay

Until just before the 21st century, GT riders would be sampling their form in the Liege Bastogne Liege.
That is unless they fancied the Vuelta Espana which started a couple of days later, so in that case they would be at Paris-Nice to test their fitness.
It is now 3 months to go to Liege Bastogne so they are still in "Training" with these sunshine gallops where they get paid to turn up and put on a show and put some miles in their legs.

Another 6 weeks to Paris-Nice & Tirreno Adriatico followed by Milan-San Remo and then British Summer Time. :?:

jerry3571

Top 20 on this stage (link below) you got Nibs, Rodriguez, Van Garderen, Van den Broek, Moreno and AC. Is that normal??
These guys are all big riders in good form almost 4 months from the start of the earliest GC. :x

I'd enjoy my cycling more if I had amnesia.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-san- ... -6/results

Richmond Racer

jerry3571 wrote:

Top 20 on this stage (link below) you got Nibs, Rodriguez, Van Garderen, Van den Broek, Moreno and AC. Is that normal??
These guys are all big riders in good form almost 4 months from the start of the earliest GC. :x

I'd enjoy my cycling more if I had amnesia.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-san- ... -6/results

What placings would they have to have attained for you to be more comfortable?

Andy S was a DNF at TDU. Does that make you happier about him?

rick_chasey

Form is relative.

If everyone is at 50% and you are too you'll still be competitive.

jerry3571

Andy Schleck is a problem on his own. He might do this all season, lost his mojo.

I'm just flagging this up as this happened for the last 5-10 years. I remember LA riding like a madman in his first Tour Down Under and Evans shooting down the road and being very active. The San Luis results, last year, have the same with AC and Leipheimer getting top results.

This weird activity have come around since the Blood Passport has come in. Also close GC results have come about in the same timescale.

I like my cycling but it annoys me when things don't add up. :?

Jerry

ddraver

No it has nt come in with the biopassport. Not at all, not even a little bit.

It disappeared for a bit during the EPO era, but this is absolutely nothing new

The fact that AC got a result similar to Levi Leipheimer tells you all you need to know!

jerry3571

This is where top riders began their flying start to the season, back in 2009-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... Under.html

If you got the answers then ddraver then I'm all ears. Why does the best GC rider in the world bother with a race, in the winter, in a Country which ranks as the 26th largest economy in the world?

Jerry

ddraver

Again, who says they are?

Bit of a stretch for the legs?

Everyone else had no form either? (see "AC and Leipheimer getting top results'' comment-says all you need to know about AC's form frankly)

The biggest thing they have to gain is UCI Points! For most people (including you by the sound of it) the season starts on a rainy day in Belgium some time. Andre Greipel will have secured LBE's 2014 ProTour licence by then!

Your article AGAIN just describes a GC rider who rocked up, d1cked around in a few breakaways and didnt try too hard to win. That his name is Armstrong is irrelevant

Sorry Jerry, you re just talking rubbish

jerry3571

Touche!

A few posts ago you wanted to know who was in good form as you didn't know; so I told you. Then you say this is normal. Just Teams chasing UCI points. Bit of a stretch of the legs; that's bull. AC's Team has got no need to chase points as they got a Licence and are aiming at bigger things. The list of riders I gave, had 5 different Teams; they are surely not all chasing points? If they need the points then lesser riders can pick them up as I mentioned before.

I think saying about LA stretching his legs by ripping up a race is a little fanciful. Anyone knows to rip up a race you need good form and coming off your winter break is not the preparation that could do this. You need the miles and gear to do it, especially when the Ozzy locals are up for it in a big way.

I think you're as lost as me mate. You're answers paper over huge cracks and I got no answers too.

Jerry

ddraver

All teams need points - that is not up for discussion. Bertie's team got on by the skin of their teeth and because the UCI did nt have the balls to leave them out. Seriously it was only few weeks ago, don't you remember? Riis maybe many things, but he is not an idiot, he won't make the same mistake twice.

"Bit of a stretch of the legs; that's bull'' - not it isnt...

LA did nt rip the race apart, he was beaten by someone no one had ever heard of and a guy that has never shown any promise in a GT ever (since he stopped doping)...

I'm afraid the cracks exist only in your head. They simply are nt based on reality.

jerry3571

Firstly, the top national Ozzy riders put their whole season around the Tour Down Under so LA must have been in some good condition so it's a bit disrepectful saying LA was stretching his legs.

I think the way AC and his team worked at the Vuelta then he should be feeling pretty secure for this next year.
If they are chasing points then they'll be heading for the Tour of Gabon next which has a similar ranking.

I don't think we're agreeing here.

Jerry

ddraver

Who were the top Ozzy riders taking the fight to LA? Most of the current crop were still riding in nappies, Do I need to remind you that McEwen was a sprinter?

If I was Bjarne ( and there are some physical similarities) I'd be banking as many points as I could, imagine what might happen if Dr Fuentes rocks up at court today feeling particularly effulgent..

jerry3571

I guess AC's mountain top victory at the San Luis will save Saxo Bank's season then? The Tour of Gabon is definitely on the list then; desperate times!!

I just looked at the results and it makes sense that O'Grady, Davis and Cooke are up there as it's there home Tour but not LA.

The only reason bike riders do anything is if they are preparing for something ahead, the Sponsor has interests in that Race or appearance money. If you said the riders were being given a bung for being there then fair enough (that means they turn up and sit on all day) or for LA, that Radioshack were expanding in to Australia then I could see that. But it's the amount of top riders which are in good form with a long season ahead that makes no sense. There are loads of these smaller races which the Domestiques can pick up wins or results leaving the big riders to have the reserves for the grand tours and classics. AC should have Anker Sorenson, Roche, Paulinho or Rogers doing something if they wanted to pick up the points, not the big guy.
Seems even Greipel and Cav are not that far off also.

It's now like the few weeks before the TDF where all the bug guns start firing. The world has gone mad!

-Jerry

ddraver

Ever heard of Eddie Merckx?

Again you ve listed LA among such global titans of stage racing as O'Grady, Davis and Cooke. Suggests his form was far from good...

Richmond Racer

Why the fark is anyone (Jerry) trying to put up Pharmstrong as the benchmark for how riders race today, 2013?

Bizarre

deejay

ddraver wrote:

Again, who says they are?

Bit of a stretch for the legs?

Everyone else had no form either? (see "AC and Leipheimer getting top results'' comment-says all you need to know about AC's form frankly)

The biggest thing they have to gain is UCI Points! For most people (including you by the sound of it) the season starts on a rainy day in Belgium some time. Andre Greipel will have secured LBE's 2014 ProTour licence by then!

Your article AGAIN just describes a GC rider who rocked up, d1cked around in a few breakaways and didnt try too hard to win. That his name is Armstrong is irrelevant

Sorry Jerry, you re just talking rubbish

This is the argument that McQuiad would agree to.
To play his game on his world stage, then you need the points.

When will Greipel take a rest now that he has secured the 2014 points or will he keep this top form till the end of July. ?

ddraver

Don't think he has many races planned for March/April tbh...

Richmond Racer

Gorilla thinks he has a shot at MSR....

rick_chasey

Boonen doesn't.