UCI Indy Comm

iainf72

Want to renegotiate the ToR for the commission to admit defeat.

I mean have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission

I always confuse those 2

andrewjoseph

I think The commission has realised it was set up to fail. They now now seem to be demanding some teeth so they don't look like idiots at the end of it all.

I have a feeling that if the UCI don't comply the ind com may wash thier hands of it. At least, I hope they do.

Richmond Racer

The UCI reply

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/ ... -up_271638


And, erm, they appear to have a point about a TRC and amnesty leading to a violation of the WADA Code as it stands right now

andrewjoseph

'vigorously pursue' doesn't necessarily mean prosecute to the full extent.

RichN95.

The problem with any amnesty of this sort is there is no real incentive to own up. Dopers have been taking the risk of a two year ban so far will keep taking the same risk (even if they have given up the doping itself). And without retroactive testing there is little chance of past crimes being discovered. So the most sensible course of action is to keep calm and carry on.

Now if they announced that a whole raft of past samples would be tested with new tests then maybe they might have some traction. But without it they're going to have takers as broccoli lollipop.

No_Ta_Doctor

Quite pissed off about this. The UCI are right, and are making USADA and WADA look stupid.

There was a chance that, armed with a forensic accountant, they might actually have got somewhere.

Richmond Racer

WAY too many political agendas being waged here

Nick Fitt

Yup, it seems the various bodies are so entangled with contradictory rules and regulations, that the UCI is confident they will navigate through this scott free. These final paragraphs are interesting, IF Armstrong outs the UCI, the explanation as to how he/his team never tested positive will come to light. From memory, the second that riders left USPS, they were caught.

"USADA has asserted that Lance Armstrong and the USPS team ran the most sophisticated and professionalised doping programme that sport has ever seen. Certainly, WADA tested Lance Armstrong many times during his career and failed to find any proof of doping. USADA, too, tested Armstrong many times and similarly failed. We all had access to the same test results – and they too must have formed the view that there was an insufficient basis to pursue a doping violation against Lance Armstrong.

There is no dispute, therefore, that we are talking about doping violations that were difficult, if not impossible, to detect on the basis of the existing science and the limited methods at the disposal of anti-doping authorities. Unlike the national criminal authorities, the UCI does not have the power to carry out searches of the rooms or vehicles of athletes, nor compel riders to give evidence before a Grand Jury under the threat of criminal prosecution for perjury. The turning point in USADA’s investigation came only after it was able to collect evidence under penalty of perjury following the federal criminal investigation.

But if WADA is serious about uncovering the full extent to which modern science and the limited methods of detection available to sporting bodies and anti-doping authorities (including itself) have prevented doping, it should establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The UCI, for one, would be happy to participate in such a process and contribute to its funding.
That would clearly be a lengthy process. In the meantime, it is hoped that WADA and USADA will reconsider their positions and participate in the work of the Independent Commission, including participating in its hearing scheduled for next week."

Richmond Racer

....is all going tits up, fellas

Hearing going on right now, Commission saying that they cant get anyone to come forward, claiming its the omerta, cos there's no amnesty/T&R. UCI holding out that WADA needs to change the Code to enable amnesty. Commission saying that UCI have failed to disclose docs to them.

It's all a farce, the likes of which Alan Aykbourn would be very proud to have written.

andyp

It's yet another PR disaster for the UCI. The more they try and delay things, the more it looks like they have something to hide.

iainf72

andyp wrote:

It's yet another PR disaster for the UCI. The more they try and delay things, the more it looks like they have something to hide.

Indeed. They're not wrong about the WADA piece, but they should be opening a dialogue to try and move things forward.

Athletes and Management not covering themselves in glory either.

ddraver

Another one of those "I'm disappointed not to be surprised" things again...

No_Ta_Doctor

Hold on a mo, haven't the UCI just done a very quick U Turn on truth and reconcilliation? McQuaids quotes now say he actually wants one and will have one if WADA let him.

ddraver

I surprise myself but I feel a bit for the UCI here. Their independent condition wants a T&R commission (apparently they have plenty of people ready to admit, but who won't admit without one. I still doubt it ll do much good, and that no current riders will take part but...)

But if it is not possible under the WADA code then they can't just ignore that either!

andyp

I'd rather know if the UCI was corrupt and accepted payments from dopers to cover up positive tests than knowing that most cyclists in the 1990s and 2000s were dopers.

RichN95.

I think UCI have pulled a smart political move here. They know that any T&R commission is doomed to failure as there is no incentive to riders, so they are passing off the arrangement of it to WADA.
Now, the T&R, like many anti doping plans is against the WADA code. (WADA see the code as an evangelical document, but it's really a 'sick note' excusing them from actually doing anything. WADA secretly stands for We Aren't Doing Anything)
So WADA will be passed a pre-failed project by the UCI and will then have to pass it off as non-doctrine to save embarassement.

People want to blame UCI for everything, but "where there's an acronym, there's politics"*. No-one is pure.

*I just made up that quote, and I'm proud of it, so please acknowledge Rich Nicholls if you use it.

Richmond Racer

...has been disbanded by the UCI

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/ ... ion_272944

so that was all a lot of fun, no?

mfin

Richmond Racer wrote:

...has been disbanded by the UCI

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/ ... ion_272944

so that was all a lot of fun, no?

Some McQuaid gems there. What a c0ck.

thomthom

Shocked! ...

RichN95.

What needs to happen is for Pat McQuaid, John Fahey and Travis Tygart to get round a table, drop their trousers and flop their knobs out to see who's got the biggest. Because at the moment none of them actually seem to want to do anything constructive, they just want to posture and mark their territory.

mfin

The UCI are the ones that always put a 'spin on it' to their own agenda though (and still come out looking retarded cos the spin is never thought through at all).

RichN95.

mfin wrote:

The UCI are the ones that always put a 'spin on it' to their own agenda though (and still come out looking retarded cos the spin is never thought through at all).

And WADA just sit there refusing to do anything, just telling everyone that they doing it wrong while waving their precious code around. When have WADA ever actually done something constructive?
They're as bad as each other

sherer

seems like another embarrassment for the UCI to me.

Yes I can understand the need to negotiate with WADA re the bans \ TRC that is needed but now that is all that is being looked into and nothing will be done about whether the UCI were complicit in the LA cover up. That will be swept under the carpet and the Fat Pat reign will continue

meggiedude

Nothing will happen of any consequence while Fat Pat and his cronies continue at the UCI.
Its quite amusing (frustrating, but amusing) that they set up the IC with a nice group of people that would produce a nice little report for them to show that they hadn't done anything wrong (after all that was the main objective for the UCI here), and horror of horrors the proposal was that every was allowed to tell all under a general amnesty.
Tygart is right in that the UCI are doing this in their own interests, but this is not exactly shock and awe.
Its always been like that.
The truth will out only after the UCI's reigns of power have been wrestled from the current drivers.
By which time Fat Pat and co will all be pensioned off and sunning themselves after a generous golden handshake.
The only fly in the ointment on this I guess is that half his friends and family are embroiled in this too, so he has reason to continue the fight.

iainf72

The problem is no one is interested in the truth, only in their agenda.

Everyone basically thinks it's Pats fault. However the USADA report didn't really find much evidence of that. Now I'm not saying it's not their fault but pre-assigning guilt isn't helpful.

T&R is horse crap though. It'll generate gossip fodder. And there can be no reconciliation without justice.

Richmond Racer

RichN95 wrote:

What needs to happen is for Pat McQuaid, John Fahey and Travis Tygart to get round a table, drop their trousers and flop their knobs out to see who's got the biggest. Because at the moment none of them actually seem to want to do anything constructive, they just want to posture and mark their territory.

I'm with Rich on this, the only difference being that I'd add Jamie Fuller to the cast around that table

And I've just read what Iain's just posted about T&R - absolutely agree

Best thing I've read so far on T&R
http://www.biscuittinmedia.com/uci-wada ... n-cycling/

meggiedude

iainf72 wrote:

The problem is no one is interested in the truth, only in their agenda.

I'd agree with this.
The difference is that the UCI are less good (OK, incompetent) at hiding this fact from the rest of the world.
You'd have thought that dealing with LA over the years they would have learnt the odd trick or two.

edhornby

given that LA couldn't telll the truth to Oprah, I can't see anyone being completely honest in front of the authorities, a rider will have to dob in a current team boss and a team boss will have to spill the beans on how they interact with the UCI - who would go first ????

meggiedude

edhornby wrote:

given that LA couldn't telll the truth to Oprah, I can't see anyone being completely honest in front of the authorities, a rider will have to dob in a current team boss and a team boss will have to spill the beans on how they interact with the UCI - who would go first ????

I wouldn't use LA as an example of how everyone would react - he is a special case after all.
If one goes - others may follow.
There would be be riders that will be more than happy to blame prev bosses in other teams. There will be people being economical with the truth, and others exaggerating, or plain lying.
Governing bodies like the UCI will continue with the smoke and mirrors to the bitter end.

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

What needs to happen is for Pat McQuaid, John Fahey and Travis Tygart to get round a table, drop their trousers and flop their knobs out to see who's got the biggest. Because at the moment none of them actually seem to want to do anything constructive, they just want to posture and mark their territory.

Pat has an unfair advantage there though as he is entirely knob!

thomthom

RichN95 wrote:

What needs to happen is for Pat McQuaid, John Fahey and Travis Tygart to get round a table, drop their trousers and flop their knobs out to see who's got the biggest. Because at the moment none of them actually seem to want to do anything constructive, they just want to posture and mark their territory.

Tygart not doing anything constructive?

That's rdiculous.