loosing weight and training for spring
Comments
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edignatu wrote:What I am saying is that a so called healthy diet as pushed by our societies leaders is not healthy and not good for our weight. Exhibit A - the western worlds expanding waistine and ever increasing catalogue of disease.
Five a day not healthy? Eat less salt not healthy? Drink less alcohol not healthy? Do more exercise not healthy?
The western world's descent into obesity and related illnesses coincided with the rise in processed foods relatively high in saturated fats and relatively low in nutrients. I am however struggling to remember the last time I saw a Govt ad encouraging me to head towards the Golden Arches...0 -
I dropped from 81kg to 75kg for the Etape last year. I'm 190.5cm (6'3) tall with not much weight to loose. For 3 months leading up to the event I reduced breakfast portions by 10 to 20%, ate tomato and lentil soup for lunch (instead is sandwiches) and ate no snacks. Worked for me!!
One big thing I've not read above. Be prepared to be hungry. Really hungry. All the time.0 -
Duncanandthemachine wrote:I dropped from 81kg to 75kg for the Etape last year. I'm 190.5cm (6'3) tall with not much weight to loose. For 3 months leading up to the event I reduced breakfast portions by 10 to 20%, ate tomato and lentil soup for lunch (instead is sandwiches) and ate no snacks. Worked for me!!
One big thing I've not read above. Be prepared to be hungry. Really hungry. All the time.
Its horrible.. I've got similar aspirations (77kg -> ~71kg at 6ft tall) and my god is it hard being hungry. Might just go back to Ghana and get food poisoning again.. that's how I got from 82->77kg
quick.. but quite expensive inc. flights and accomodation! 0 -
edignatu wrote:I think if you are eating properly the calorie count does not matter. You will reach a nice equilibrium weight, a bit heavier (fatter) if you are sedentary and a bit leaner if you are more active.
So, do more and you'll be lighter? That's what I thought. Now we've established that...
...if I eat less, let's say 70% of exactly the same food, will I weigh less than if I eat 100%? I know I'll be hungrier, and probably grumpier, but would I weigh less?
I tried to watch the video but it's nearly 2 hours long0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:Duncanandthemachine wrote:I dropped from 81kg to 75kg for the Etape last year. I'm 190.5cm (6'3) tall with not much weight to loose. For 3 months leading up to the event I reduced breakfast portions by 10 to 20%, ate tomato and lentil soup for lunch (instead is sandwiches) and ate no snacks. Worked for me!!
One big thing I've not read above. Be prepared to be hungry. Really hungry. All the time.
Its horrible.. I've got similar aspirations (77kg -> ~71kg at 6ft tall) and my god is it hard being hungry. Might just go back to Ghana and get food poisoning again.. that's how I got from 82->77kg quick.. but quite expensive inc. flights and accomodation!
I think there is a few of us who do not need to lose weight but feel it worthwhile to give it a go for various reasons including... 'going faster'. Whether you do or not and if so is that down to losing those 5kgs or just better more focussed training???
I dont think I can confidently go feeling hungry for the next 2 months before first race...
Did the Etape experience go better for the drop in weight..? or were you just fitter and stronger for the mountains?0 -
Pollys Bott wrote:edignatu wrote:What I am saying is that a so called healthy diet as pushed by our societies leaders is not healthy and not good for our weight. Exhibit A - the western worlds expanding waistine and ever increasing catalogue of disease.
Five a day not healthy? Eat less salt not healthy? Drink less alcohol not healthy? Do more exercise not healthy?
The western world's descent into obesity and related illnesses coincided with the rise in processed foods relatively high in saturated fats and relatively low in nutrients. I am however struggling to remember the last time I saw a Govt ad encouraging me to head towards the Golden Arches...
Untrue really as a cause of obesity, try trans fats, and loads of sugar instead and you have got it right. For the last god knows how many years low fat has been an obession, and a massive growing market for food companies, yet obesity continues to rise, it is because of the amount of sugar they stick in these products to make them taste nice after removing the fat.
The Goverment haven't got it right in terms of nutrition, and never will do whilst they suggest you eat 65% of your diet that is high in sugar, such as bread, cereals etc. Obesity is still on the rise despite the Govt suggesting 5 a day (not nearly enough by the way), and allowing food manufacturers to state that there products contain fruit and veg even when it is in a highly processed form and supplies no nutrients.0 -
Duncanandthemachine wrote:I dropped from 81kg to 75kg for the Etape last year. I'm 190.5cm (6'3) tall with not much weight to loose. For 3 months leading up to the event I reduced breakfast portions by 10 to 20%, ate tomato and lentil soup for lunch (instead is sandwiches) and ate no snacks. Worked for me!!
One big thing I've not read above. Be prepared to be hungry. Really hungry. All the time.
Rubbish, absolute rubbish, I have lost 4kgs since October, and not felt hungry once, it is about eating the right types of food at the right time, not bloody starving yourself (which can lead to actually being worse for you, as your metabolism will slow right down, and you will probably end up eating muscle rather than fat, as the body tries to hold onto it).0 -
Agree with SBezza.
If you eat a nutritious diet which is not high in sugars and refined carbohydrate you can lose weight and not feel hungry all the time.
I have no evidence for this next point, it is purely a hunch; the body knows when it is not getting enough nutrients from the food you feed it. You may stuff in enough calories but the body says, "OK thanks for the calories but I did not get enough good fats and proteins and vitamins in that mate, I'm still hungry feed me more". We do know that eating sugar and refined carbohydrates tend to cause us to feel hungry again sooner than protein, fat, and carbohydrate in the form of vegetables.
In my opinion, people who are hungry all the time are invariably people who eat too much sugar and refined carbohydrates. The same people often choose low fat options which contain less fat but have more added sugar which again do not sate appetite.
That said, if you eat too many calories, you will still put on weight.0 -
I wouldn't mind betting the obesity trend (and many illnesses) is directly related to the increase in artificial ingredients in our diet's.0
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SBezza wrote:Pollys Bott wrote:edignatu wrote:What I am saying is that a so called healthy diet as pushed by our societies leaders is not healthy and not good for our weight. Exhibit A - the western worlds expanding waistine and ever increasing catalogue of disease.
Five a day not healthy? Eat less salt not healthy? Drink less alcohol not healthy? Do more exercise not healthy?
The western world's descent into obesity and related illnesses coincided with the rise in processed foods relatively high in saturated fats and relatively low in nutrients. I am however struggling to remember the last time I saw a Govt ad encouraging me to head towards the Golden Arches...
Untrue really as a cause of obesity, try trans fats, and loads of sugar instead and you have got it right. For the last god knows how many years low fat has been an obession, and a massive growing market for food companies, yet obesity continues to rise, it is because of the amount of sugar they stick in these products to make them taste nice after removing the fat.
OK, agree with that...SBezza wrote:The Goverment haven't got it right in terms of nutrition, and never will do whilst they suggest you eat 65% of your diet that is high in sugar, such as bread, cereals etc. Obesity is still on the rise despite the Govt suggesting 5 a day (not nearly enough by the way), and allowing food manufacturers to state that there products contain fruit and veg even when it is in a highly processed form and supplies no nutrients.
So if they're wrong, what's right? Not being argumentative, am genuinely curious.0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:Agree with SBezza.
If you eat a nutritious diet which is not high in sugars and refined carbohydrate you can lose weight and not feel hungry all the time.
I have no evidence for this next point, it is purely a hunch; the body knows when it is not getting enough nutrients from the food you feed it. You may stuff in enough calories but the body says, "OK thanks for the calories but I did not get enough good fats and proteins and vitamins in that mate, I'm still hungry feed me more". We do know that eating sugar and refined carbohydrates tend to cause us to feel hungry again sooner than protein, fat, and carbohydrate in the form of vegetables.
In my opinion, people who are hungry all the time are invariably people who eat too much sugar and refined carbohydrates. The same people often choose low fat options which contain less fat but have more added sugar which again do not sate appetite.
That said, if you eat too many calories, you will still put on weight.
I wouldn't say I'm always hungry but I'm quite sure that I don't eat too much sugar. Not sure about refined carbs - we do go through a lot of pasta and rice but what's a refined carb as opposed to a normal carb?
Take my normal working day as an example - up at 0530, small bowl of Shreddies / 1 Weetabix. Bike 7 miles to work. Have 5 Weetabix 0730/0800. Feeling hungry by 1000 so have bowl of porridge in canteen. Graze on sandwiches from 13-1600 (6 slices multigrain/wholemeal bread, cheese/ham/jam filling). Also have bananas / apples during the day as well. Bike home 1915 for pasta/rice/something with boiled spuds and steamed veg.
Genuinely curious as to where the sugar overload / lack of nutrition is in that lot: please feel free to educate me 0 -
danowat wrote:I wouldn't mind betting the obesity trend (and many illnesses) is directly related to the increase in artificial ingredients in our diet's.
Exacerbated by a more sedantary lifestyle. And the fact that 'fat genes' are passed on because people still shag fatties!0 -
Pollys Bott wrote:Take my normal working day as an example - up at 0530, small bowl of Shreddies / 1 Weetabix. Bike 7 miles to work. Have 5 Weetabix 0730/0800. Feeling hungry by 1000 so have bowl of porridge in canteen. Graze on sandwiches from 13-1600 (6 slices multigrain/wholemeal bread, cheese/ham/jam filling). Also have bananas / apples during the day as well. Bike home 1915 for pasta/rice/something with boiled spuds and steamed veg.
Genuinely curious as to where the sugar overload / lack of nutrition is in that lot: please feel free to educate me
What protein do you eat? That just looks like a load of carbs.0 -
SBezza - I agree.
Polly Bott - I disagree. 5 a day is made up nonsense - it comes form no where and varies around the world. I'd be careful with fruit (sugar) go mad with most greens and be a bit careful with some of the higher GL veg, if you are looking to lose weight. Salt is wrongly demonised, I think to distract from the real villain which is sugar, nothing much wrong and plenty right with natural unprocessed salts. Alcohol - well a glass or two or red might actually be doing you some good, obviously binging isn't going to do you any good. Exercise is brilliant for a great many things it's just that weight loss is pretty low on that list.
As for a gov ad for the golden arches, did you miss the Olympics?
Giant Mike - Thanks for giving the video a try - I do agree that it's a bit of a slog!
The opening post was about loosing weight, There is no doubt that exercise and diet effects weight up and down - Its just that to lose weight you don't need exercise particularly and you don't need to eat less. Hence, do more eat less is wrong headed. Yes, exercising will help (and as this is a cycling forum no doubt there will be exercise!) I just don't expect the opening poster to lose weight effectively if as SBezza says "you eat 65% of your diet that is high in sugar, such as bread, cereals etc" as is recommended as being healthy.
Polly Botts - I see more posting has been going on. I would recommend looking at the weston A price website as a good start to finding out about what to eat.0 -
GiantMike wrote:Pollys Bott wrote:Take my normal working day as an example - up at 0530, small bowl of Shreddies / 1 Weetabix. Bike 7 miles to work. Have 5 Weetabix 0730/0800. Feeling hungry by 1000 so have bowl of porridge in canteen. Graze on sandwiches from 13-1600 (6 slices multigrain/wholemeal bread, cheese/ham/jam filling). Also have bananas / apples during the day as well. Bike home 1915 for pasta/rice/something with boiled spuds and steamed veg.
Genuinely curious as to where the sugar overload / lack of nutrition is in that lot: please feel free to educate me
What protein do you eat? That just looks like a load of carbs.
Um, quite a bit of chicken, some fish. Too many carbs not good then, right? Or wrong?0 -
Polly Bott - In simplistic terms - if you take sugar and processed cereals breads etc as one and the same you will be getting the right idea. You are continually spiking your blood sugar up which triggers the insulin response which converts the sugars/carbs to fats and deposits them.
From Weston A Price, sorry about the formatting.
1 Eat whole, natural foods.
2 Eat only foods that will spoil, but eat them before they do.
3 Eat naturally-raised meat including fish, seafood, poultry, beef, lamb, game, organ meats and eggs.
4 Eat whole, naturally-produced milk products from pasture-fed cows, preferably raw and/or fermented, such as whole yogurt, cultured butter, whole cheeses and fresh and sour cream.
5 Use only traditional fats and oils including butter and other animal fats, extra virgin olive oil, expeller expressed sesame and flax oil and the tropical oils—coconut and palm.
6 Eat fresh fruits and vegetables, preferably organic, in salads and soups, or lightly steamed.
7 Use whole grains and nuts that have been prepared by soaking, sprouting or sour leavening to neutralize phytic acid and other anti-nutrients.
8 Include enzyme-enhanced lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages and condiments in your diet on a regular basis.
9 Prepare homemade meat stocks from the bones of chicken, beef, lamb or fish and use liberally in soups and sauces.
10 Use herb teas and coffee substitutes in moderation.
11 Use filtered water for cooking and drinking.
12 Use unrefined Celtic sea salt and a variety of herbs and spices for food interest and appetite stimulation.
Make your own salad dressing using raw vinegar, extra virgin olive oil and expeller expressed flax oil.
13 Use natural sweeteners in moderation, such as raw honey, maple syrup, dehydrated cane sugar juice and stevia powder.
14 Use only unpasteurized wine or beer in strict moderation with meals.
15 Cook only in stainless steel, cast iron, glass or good quality enamel.
16 Use only natural supplements.
17 Get plenty of sleep, exercise and natural light.
18 Think positive thoughts and minimize stress.
19 Practice forgiveness.0 -
Pollys Bott wrote:SBezza wrote:The Goverment haven't got it right in terms of nutrition, and never will do whilst they suggest you eat 65% of your diet that is high in sugar, such as bread, cereals etc. Obesity is still on the rise despite the Govt suggesting 5 a day (not nearly enough by the way), and allowing food manufacturers to state that there products contain fruit and veg even when it is in a highly processed form and supplies no nutrients.
So if they're wrong, what's right? Not being argumentative, am genuinely curious.
First of all, stop all backhanders from the Food Industry, look at the published studies with regards to nutrition, look at other countries that don't have obesity problems. Stop the NHS villifying fat, and saying saturated fat is a cause of heart disease (it isn't), get people to perhaps eat a more balanced diet of whole foods that don't have a massive list of ingredients on them (if needs be subsides these and heavily tax processed food). This will never happen, as they are so blinded by the money the food industry pumps into central goverment, and how it influences politicans for their own needs, they DO NOT care about the general public, as long as they make huge profits.0 -
GiantMike wrote:Pollys Bott wrote:Take my normal working day as an example - up at 0530, small bowl of Shreddies / 1 Weetabix. Bike 7 miles to work. Have 5 Weetabix 0730/0800. Feeling hungry by 1000 so have bowl of porridge in canteen. Graze on sandwiches from 13-1600 (6 slices multigrain/wholemeal bread, cheese/ham/jam filling). Also have bananas / apples during the day as well. Bike home 1915 for pasta/rice/something with boiled spuds and steamed veg.
Genuinely curious as to where the sugar overload / lack of nutrition is in that lot: please feel free to educate me
What protein do you eat? That just looks like a load of carbs.
And a load of sugary carbs, check out the amount of sugars in cereal, bread, pasta, jam and the like. Put it this way your 3 breakfasts must make up about 1500 calories at least I would imagine. I ride 6.5 miles to work, have a small amount of shreddies (45gms)(with nuts and seeds added), with gold top milk, and normally an apple, this keeps me full until mid day in the norm, if I do get peckish a small bag of nuts normally help out0 -
Sugar:
12g in the bread, 4g in the Weetabix, 2.5g in 100g of pasta. (It doesn't specifically say how much sugar per spoonful of jam but if 180g of sugar in a full jar and - at a total guess - 25 tsp of jam in the jar then approx 7g of sugar in my sandwich). In total less than a third of the RDA for sugar which is 90g. Is that really going to spike my blood sugar levels, trigger the insulin response and lay down fat? Given that over the last 18 months my weight has come down by approx 5kgs I'm struggling to see how that argument is valid... :?
My work colleagues do marvel at the fact that "you're always bl00dy eating and never put on weight, 'snot fair"... 0 -
Pollys Bott wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:Agree with SBezza.
If you eat a nutritious diet which is not high in sugars and refined carbohydrate you can lose weight and not feel hungry all the time.
I have no evidence for this next point, it is purely a hunch; the body knows when it is not getting enough nutrients from the food you feed it. You may stuff in enough calories but the body says, "OK thanks for the calories but I did not get enough good fats and proteins and vitamins in that mate, I'm still hungry feed me more". We do know that eating sugar and refined carbohydrates tend to cause us to feel hungry again sooner than protein, fat, and carbohydrate in the form of vegetables.
In my opinion, people who are hungry all the time are invariably people who eat too much sugar and refined carbohydrates. The same people often choose low fat options which contain less fat but have more added sugar which again do not sate appetite.
That said, if you eat too many calories, you will still put on weight.
I wouldn't say I'm always hungry but I'm quite sure that I don't eat too much sugar. Not sure about refined carbs - we do go through a lot of pasta and rice but what's a refined carb as opposed to a normal carb?
Take my normal working day as an example - up at 0530, small bowl of Shreddies / 1 Weetabix. Bike 7 miles to work. Have 5 Weetabix 0730/0800. Feeling hungry by 1000 so have bowl of porridge in canteen. Graze on sandwiches from 13-1600 (6 slices multigrain/wholemeal bread, cheese/ham/jam filling). Also have bananas / apples during the day as well. Bike home 1915 for pasta/rice/something with boiled spuds and steamed veg.
Genuinely curious as to where the sugar overload / lack of nutrition is in that lot: please feel free to educate me
Rice, pasta, bread (even whole grain or multigrain), shreddies, weetabix, all refined carbs, porridge is still just carbs but not as refined. Spuds is not refined but still mostly all carbs.
What do you put on the shreddies and weetabix? Why not some days have eggs for breakfast? Or a good quality no sugar added muesli? What spread is on the sandwiches? Do you eat any legumes or nuts?
What do you eat with the rice, pasta or spuds & veg? Do you eat any fish?
Seems to me you just eat mostly very low quality carbs.0 -
yes, that is what is going on in your body and at is why you are hungry mid morning and grazing later on. But as you are active and it sound like you are one of those body types which are not predisposed to gaining weight then. as you say, it is hard for you personally to see the benefit.
Grazing is another thing that is supposed to be healthy. If you eat right you don't feel hungry and therefore you don't want to graze, it you eat right you will feel satiated at an appropriate time and you will not over eat and you will reach an appropriate weight. It is that easy. Unfortunately it is just obscured by those interested in selling you crap to eat.0 -
Pollys Bott wrote:Sugar:
12g in the bread, 4g in the Weetabix, 2.5g in 100g of pasta. (It doesn't specifically say how much sugar per spoonful of jam but if 180g of sugar in a full jar and - at a total guess - 25 tsp of jam in the jar then approx 7g of sugar in my sandwich). In total less than a third of the RDA for sugar which is 90g. Is that really going to spike my blood sugar levels, trigger the insulin response and lay down fat? Given that over the last 18 months my weight has come down by approx 5kgs I'm struggling to see how that argument is valid... :?
My work colleagues do marvel at the fact that "you're always bl00dy eating and never put on weight, 'snot fair"...
As I said figures set by the goverment on the advice of Food Industry, and not really from medical advice, don't forget the milk as well has sugar in it, but at least it contains a fair amount of fat and protein as well.
You may well be losing weight, as the calories in must still be less than what is used, but no doubt with a better diet with less processed carbs, you could have a leaner body with less fat and more muscle
. Weight isn't just the key, ideally it is losing body fat without losing too much muscle at the same time. 0 -
OK, thanks chaps.
Trev - just semi-skimmed milk on the cereal. Poached eggs instead of the porridge - why not? I do have muesli now and again and it does make me feel 'fuller': maybe more of that. Generally curry / stir fry with the rice, chicken/bacon/tuna/salmon with tomato-ey sauce and mushrooms/onion/peppers with pasta. Or cream/Philly instead of the tomato sauce. Must admit that with the spuds/veg it's mainly freezer stuff like pies/kievs/fish/fishcakes, I know in an ideal world it would all be home-made...
So if the carbs I eat are low quality, what are high quality carbs?
Edignatu - I'm not sure it's a question of me not seeing the benefit: if I had two spoons of sugar in eight-a-day coffees, drank a gallon of Pepsi and munched on chocolate then yes, I'd take your point about blood sugar spikes > insulin > laying down fat. But I don't, and I'm not (laying down fat). Which leads me onto...
SBezza - compared to previously I've done loads of cycling in the last couple of years. Trousers are hanging off my waist and are tighter on my butt and thighs, the six-pack which I thought had been consigned to the dustbin of history has started to re-appear, and the missus says I need to put some lard on. I'm 5' 9" and 69/70kgs: believe me, I can't get much leaner!0 -
Pollys Bott wrote:SBezza - compared to previously I've done loads of cycling in the last couple of years. Trousers are hanging off my waist and are tighter on my butt and thighs, the six-pack which I thought had been consigned to the dustbin of history has started to re-appear, and the missus says I need to put some lard on. I'm 5' 9" and 69/70kgs: believe me, I can't get much leaner!
At a similar height and weight, trust me you could probably get leaner, not that you may want to however, but that is another thing. My missus says I don't need to lose any weight (she married me when I was 16st and I went up to 18st), and to be honest I probably don't for health reasons, but I want to lose another 3kgs or so so that I go even quicker on a bike when racing.0 -
Agreed: 15 years ago when rowing & running a lot I couldn't get above 67kgs and there wasn't an ounce of fat on me. As you say, I have no desire or need to get back to that level: actually I haven't been trying to lose weight at all these last few years, it's just happened as the volume and intensity of the riding has increased.
18st down to 11-ish? Chapeau sir!0 -
Pollys Bot,
Don't think you are doing much wrong, just think you rely too much on bread, rice, pasta, weetabix & shreddies. Try to eat more vegetables & legumes (which are carbohydrate), perhaps more potato but a bit less rice & pasta which are still better than bread. More real food - eggs, fish, meat (rabbit, chicken) plus the usual beef, lamb, pork, (in moderation) shellfish with more veg & legumes and less ready meals. This may cost you more money and take more time to prepare so you will need to plan.0 -
are frozen microwaveable veg bags a decent cheat?0
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JGSI wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:Duncanandthemachine wrote:I dropped from 81kg to 75kg for the Etape last year. I'm 190.5cm (6'3) tall with not much weight to loose. For 3 months leading up to the event I reduced breakfast portions by 10 to 20%, ate tomato and lentil soup for lunch (instead is sandwiches) and ate no snacks. Worked for me!!
One big thing I've not read above. Be prepared to be hungry. Really hungry. All the time.
Its horrible.. I've got similar aspirations (77kg -> ~71kg at 6ft tall) and my god is it hard being hungry. Might just go back to Ghana and get food poisoning again.. that's how I got from 82->77kg quick.. but quite expensive inc. flights and accomodation!
I think there is a few of us who do not need to lose weight but feel it worthwhile to give it a go for various reasons including... 'going faster'. Whether you do or not and if so is that down to losing those 5kgs or just better more focussed training???
I dont think I can confidently go feeling hungry for the next 2 months before first race...
Did the Etape experience go better for the drop in weight..? or were you just fitter and stronger for the mountains?
You will definitely feel an impact if you drop 5kg of excess body weight.. there is no doubting that.. but the key is excess weight.. you might end up feeling crap and weak if you don't do it the right way.0 -
ukg3pxc wrote:are frozen microwaveable veg bags a decent cheat?
From what I understand frozen veg is not that bad if the veg was reasonably fresh when frozen so I would say it is a good cheat yes.0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:ukg3pxc wrote:are frozen microwaveable veg bags a decent cheat?
From what I understand frozen veg is not that bad if the veg was reasonably fresh when frozen so I would say it is a good cheat yes.
this thread has been great. everydays a school day etc! thanks to everyone who has contributed to it
muller light, go ahead biscuits both ditched as of today (just need to find some substitutes...)
golden syrup porridge swapped for plain
and i think i need more calories as i'm current around 1500 per day! approx 500 of those go training in an evening as well!0
