Just how crucial to road cycling is THE BRAND ?

Raffles

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Raffles wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.

Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.

I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.

I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759

Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.


In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion

I buy my suits from primark because they're cheaper than anywhere else.

kinda misses the entire premise ali and ignores the proof ive shown iro Assos and pricing

alihisgreat

Raffles wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Raffles wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.

Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.

I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.

I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759

Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.


In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion

I buy my suits from primark because they're cheaper than anywhere else.

kinda misses the entire premise ali and ignores the proof ive shown iro Assos and pricing

As far as I'm concerned they can charge £306 for what is a very specialised and unique item.... and you can wear these because they're cheaper:

Careca

The Assos things are very expensive, but to be fair, they are not regular cycling shorts. So it seems odd to use them to prove your point. I'm sure if other companies made such a garment, that I would never wish to own, then I'm sure they wouldn't be cheap. Perhaps not Assos price. Do Lidl do an equivalent type of garment?

Perhaps those wishing to buy such rain pants could try these

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... tsid:37143

I'm sure the Assos ones are just that price cause of the brand and that they both perform equally on the bike

Doh, beaten to it

lc1981

Raffles wrote:

In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion

Fair enough (although most Assos stuff is actually made in Europe), but why do you have such a problem with Assos and not Castelli, when people have pointed out that they also charge high prices?

rolf_f

Raffles wrote:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759

Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.

Credit where due - these are probably the most hideous looking item of cycling apparel ever made and the most hideous looking item of cycling apparel that will ever be made. I mean, holy crap!

Jez mon

]

Raffles wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.

Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.

I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.

I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759

Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.


In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion

Except a fair few of their Chinese made products are made in Europe the fabric in the trousers for example, made in Switzerland

Grill

Raffles wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.

Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.

I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.

I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759

Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.

In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion

You're an idiot. If you want Bolles then by all means buy a set, but that doesn't mean that the Oakleys aren't worth the coin to someone else. I can certainly tell the difference in optics, and ask any optometrist who does the best prescription lenses on sports sunnies and all you'll hear is Oakley. You're not just paying for the name but all the associated R&D that is behind it.

As far as the Assos Rain Shell Knickers are concerned, you're just being silly. Why cite a low-production niche product and complain about its cost? Look at their bibshorts, tights, jerseys and all the other products they make. They fall within the same price structure as other premium cycling brands. Try comparing apples to apples if you want to be taken even the least bit seriously.

Profit is not a dirty word. The fact of the matter is that all companies need to make profit. Do you think you'd still be employed if the company you work for suddenly decided to stop making profit?

As far as justifying their prices are concerned, you are just being childish. Products are worth what people are willing to pay. Look at how many portals use fluid pricing algorithms; airlines, hotels, Amazon, etc. They adjust their pricing based upon what people are willing to pay. Assos, Oakley, et al. just give guidelines in terms of pricing (what do you think and RRP stands for), and occasionally there are reseller agreements in place in order to stop premature devaluation of said products and protect the brand image as well as the customers perceived value. Do you own any Apple products? Remind me again who is the richest company is the world?

As far as where it's made, how does that make a difference? Most of my bikes were made in Taiwan. Does that mean that it's inferior to bikes made in the US. Italy, or even here in the UK? Are you trying to imply that the Chinese are lazy and cut corners and are generally a bit shit when compared to Europeans? Honestly...

You need to grow up and get on with your cycling. The only one here who gives a damn about what others spend their money on is you. I

lc1981

Grill wrote:

As far as where it's made, how does that make a difference? Most of my bikes were made in Taiwan. Does that mean that it's inferior to bikes made in the US. Italy, or even here in the UK? Are you trying to imply that the Chinese are lazy and cut corners and are generally a bit shoot when compared to Europeans? Honestly...

I think it's legitimate to be sceptical about Chinese-made products without implying anything about the Chinese. My concern is mainly about labour standards, for example, and I'd like to know that the production of what I'm buying hasn't involved exploitation. From experience, "Made in China" means very little as some very good and some very bad products are made there, as they are most places.

Grill wrote:

Do you own any Apple products?

Apparently Raffles prefers Creative.

Grill

lc1981 wrote:

Grill wrote:

As far as where it's made, how does that make a difference? Most of my bikes were made in Taiwan. Does that mean that it's inferior to bikes made in the US. Italy, or even here in the UK? Are you trying to imply that the Chinese are lazy and cut corners and are generally a bit shoot when compared to Europeans? Honestly...

I think it's legitimate to be sceptical about Chinese-made products without implying anything about the Chinese. My concern is mainly about labour standards, for example, and I'd like to know that the production of what I'm buying hasn't involved exploitation. From experience, "Made in China" means very little as some very good and some very bad products are made there, as they are most places.

So do you own any Apple products? We all know what happens to the poor folk at Foxconn... You can't go halfway with those sort of things. It's like being a vegan who eats bacon

Coming form the snowsports world I can tell you that the K2 Shakespeare fab in China has more stringent QC and better reliability than Elan or GST in Austria, Nidecker in both Switzerland and Tunisia, and Rossi in Spain (to name a few).

Creative- made in China. Good enough for electronics, but apparently their clothes suck :roll:

declan1

This thread's just turning into a war!

FrancisScotland

Raffles wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.

Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.

I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.

I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759

Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.


In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion

Doesn't that slightly contradict everything else you've said as you're saying the only reason some people pay more is because they are deemed to look better and then you judge the trousers on their look? And surely if they do look awful then that only makes you think anyone buying them would be purchasing them because of their performance and not how they look?

lc1981

Grill wrote:

So do you own any Apple products? We all know what happens to the poor folk at Foxconn... You can't go halfway with those sort of things. It's like being a vegan who eats bacon

I've got an old iPod, but I wouldn't buy Apple products now - for various reasons. I'm not taking the moral highground and I can't claim to have thoroughly checked the background of every product I own, but I was just pointing out that there are reasons to be concerned about where things are made, regardless of Raffles's views on China.

Grill wrote:

Coming form the snowsports world I can tell you that the K2 Shakespeare fab in China has more stringent QC and better reliability than Elan or GST in Austria, Nidecker in both Switzerland and Tunisia, and Rossi in Spain (to name a few).

Yes, as I said, some stuff from China is very good. Rapha's Chinese-made jerseys are excellent, for example.

MattC59

declan1 wrote:

This thread's just turning into a war!

This thread is an early contender for thread of the year, and Raffles for Mook of the year !

MountainMonster

I support his decision! The above Poster I mean!

Careca

I have to say that I would like to see more products made in Europe rather than in China. Spoke to the guys at Finisterre a few years ago and they didn't have their goods their as they were unable to guarantee the quality and worker conditions. Also it seems mad to be shipping materials all round the world to make clothing. Lots of companies use countries like Portugal to manufacture.

This is not intended to be some kind of Alf Garnett style rant

YIMan

Astonishing snobbery. If you think brands are overpriced, don't buy them, but please don't worry your pretty little head about other people's purchasing decisions.

I think all this type of discussion is about is people being able to feel superior for identifying and purchasing allegedly better bang for the buck than other people.......but as it's not your money buying it, it' a totally hollow "victory".

Raffles

thanks for the insult Grill you spoonfed brainwashed A-hole , I have a right to speak my mind on a public forum and i certainly do not need or require your approval.

Grill wrote:

Raffles wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.

Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.

I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.

I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759

Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.

In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion

You're an idiot. If you want Bolles then by all means buy a set, but that doesn't mean that the Oakleys aren't worth the coin to someone else. I can certainly tell the difference in optics, and ask any optometrist who does the best prescription lenses on sports sunnies and all you'll hear is Oakley. You're not just paying for the name but all the associated R&D that is behind it.

As far as the Assos Rain Shell Knickers are concerned, you're just being silly. Why cite a low-production niche product and complain about its cost? Look at their bibshorts, tights, jerseys and all the other products they make. They fall within the same price structure as other premium cycling brands. Try comparing apples to apples if you want to be taken even the least bit seriously.

Profit is not a dirty word. The fact of the matter is that all companies need to make profit. Do you think you'd still be employed if the company you work for suddenly decided to stop making profit?

As far as justifying their prices are concerned, you are just being childish. Products are worth what people are willing to pay. Look at how many portals use fluid pricing algorithms; airlines, hotels, Amazon, etc. They adjust their pricing based upon what people are willing to pay. Assos, Oakley, et al. just give guidelines in terms of pricing (what do you think and RRP stands for), and occasionally there are reseller agreements in place in order to stop premature devaluation of said products and protect the brand image as well as the customers perceived value. Do you own any Apple products? Remind me again who is the richest company is the world?

As far as where it's made, how does that make a difference? Most of my bikes were made in Taiwan. Does that mean that it's inferior to bikes made in the US. Italy, or even here in the UK? Are you trying to imply that the Chinese are lazy and cut corners and are generally a bit shoot when compared to Europeans? Honestly...

You need to grow up and get on with your cycling. The only one here who gives a damn about what others spend their money on is you. I

Raffles

MattC59 wrote:

declan1 wrote:

This thread's just turning into a war!

This thread is an early contender for thread of the year, and Raffles for Mook of the year !

cheers matt

its more entertaining and thought provoking than "should i buy wet or dry lube ? "...............im sure you would agree with me on that point bro

Grill

Raffles wrote:

thanks for the insult Grill you A-hole , I have a right to speak my mind on a public forum and i certainly do not need or require your approval.

I love it when the only way one has to support their contentions is to attempt to take a non-existent highroad. You sir would fail miserably in an LD debate.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to get a full night's sleep before spanking loads of cash on exorbitantly expensive products that under-perform and are assembled with the blood, sweat, and tears of juvenile Cambodian amputees at Bike Science tomorrow. :P

Raffles

Grill wrote:

Raffles wrote:

thanks for the insult Grill you A-hole , I have a right to speak my mind on a public forum and i certainly do not need or require your approval.

I love it when the only way one has to support their contentions is to attempt to take a non-existent highroad. You sir would fail miserably in an LD debate.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to get a full night's sleep before spanking loads of cash on exorbitantly expensive products that under-perform and are assembled with the blood, sweat, and tears of juvenile Cambodian amputees at Bike Science tomorrow. :P

off you go now with tail between legs ......theres a good lad

Grill

Raffles wrote:

Grill wrote:

Raffles wrote:

thanks for the insult Grill you A-hole , I have a right to speak my mind on a public forum and i certainly do not need or require your approval.

I love it when the only way one has to support their contentions is to attempt to take a non-existent highroad. You sir would fail miserably in an LD debate.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to get a full night's sleep before spanking loads of cash on exorbitantly expensive products that under-perform and are assembled with the blood, sweat, and tears of juvenile Cambodian amputees at Bike Science tomorrow. :P

off you go now with tail between legs ......theres a good lad

Oh you! I've just slipped into my cow-print Assos pyjamas. You won't find them on their website because I had them commissioned. They even have a special super-absorbent chamois for those nighttime accidents. Have you ever slept in Assos lycra? You don't know what you're missing...

declan1

Grill wrote:

Raffles wrote:

Grill wrote:

Raffles wrote:

thanks for the insult Grill you A-hole , I have a right to speak my mind on a public forum and i certainly do not need or require your approval.

I love it when the only way one has to support their contentions is to attempt to take a non-existent highroad. You sir would fail miserably in an LD debate.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to get a full night's sleep before spanking loads of cash on exorbitantly expensive products that under-perform and are assembled with the blood, sweat, and tears of juvenile Cambodian amputees at Bike Science tomorrow. :P

off you go now with tail between legs ......theres a good lad

Oh you! I've just slipped into my cow-print Assos pyjamas. You won't find them on their website because I had them commissioned. They even have a special super-absorbent chamois for those nighttime accidents. Have you ever slept in Assos lycra? You don't know what you're missing...

Sounds nice! How much did that cost do you mind me asking?

Grill

More than you'll ever see!*





*always wanted to say that

Raffles

dont be fooled declan, he is late for the night shift at mc donalds and we are keeping him back , at least we know where he gets the username Grill from now.

Grill

You got me dead to rights on that one. I was lucky enough to get an Assos apron for Christmas. Keeping the dream alive...

Raffles

Grill wrote:

You got me dead to rights on that one. I was lucky enough to get an Assos apron for Christmas. Keeping the dream alive...

You sure are blessed with luck for sure, Assos making those branded incontinence pants you wear must save you a fortune as they are such quality and better than cheap chinese incontinence pants meaning you will only need one pair. you buy cheap incontinence pants and you buy twice .....you know how it goes. you can pi55 yourself and think "at least they are assos incontinence pants" and the guys at the club will never be aware of your sodden backside, now off you go to mc donalds as we dont want to hold you back.

Grill

I take issue with your "sodden backside" remark. I tuck up, not down.

Raffles

Grill wrote:

I take issue with your "sodden backside" remark. I tuck up, not down.

at least you can take a ribbing ...................and thats good by me as being able to laugh at oneself is commendable.

offers handshake.............................................truce ?

Grill

Sure, but that's the hand I used to tuck up my cash and prizes. It's clean, just smells a bit like embrocation and testes.

YIMan

Keyboard warriors of the world unite....myself included.