Just how crucial to road cycling is THE BRAND ?
Comments
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MountainMonster wrote:Raffles wrote:declan1 wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:declan1 wrote:I've got a bike that nobody in the world has ever heard of, and I ride around kit from Lidl. Apart from the fact the pad in my bibs has basically disappeared, it's not bad stuff, and for around £10 per item it's considerably cheaper than Assos or Castelli. I've never gone on a ride and moaned about my kit the whole way so it can't be bad!
Have ever ridden anything more expensive than the lidl stuff?
because if you haven't then you don't know what you're missing.
I know what I'm missing, but at the moment I can't justify the huge amounts of money needed for the nice kit. I'm happy with the Lidl stuff, so there's not much point in upgrading yet!
dec what sort of reaction would you get from your other half if they knew you shelled out £239 :shock: (faint) on a pair of Assos bib shorts ?
My wife encourages it, as we have the disposable income for it. I find these threads are only ever started by people who plain and simple can not afford it, which is pretty sad. Wait until you havethe disposable income and then your view will most likely change.
Just ridden in from the hunt have you ?
Oh how the cycling snob presumes he is the only one with money :roll: , I dont have any problems with disposable income like you take great joy in implying but I do take a stance against being ripped off by companies just putting the boot into the consumer because of "the brand" when there are a lot better alternatives that dont have "the brand"
My question has been answered as to the influence of the brand as you are indeed brainwashed and probably couldnt bear to ride with poor people :roll:2012 Cannondale CAAD 8 1050 -
Raffles wrote:dodgy wrote:Raffles wrote:LegendLust wrote:Raffles wrote:There are pricy products out there in road cycling land that are no better than other products which cost dramatically less....................thats not opinion, its fact. Ive been driven nuts by riders "who just cant wear anything less than Assos" and its individuals like that which make me think just how crucial is branding in road cycling.
Ive observed some amazing riders who own real world bikes and ive seen mediocre cyclists who are full of it as they ride on their italian carbon steeds . Other riders watch in awe as plonker pat parades around on his italian whilst there are far superior cyclists on much cheaper equipment who would absolutely destroy him..........obviously branding is playing a part.
I would never ever hand over the asking prices that Assos, Rapha or Oakley charge as I just dont think the goods are worth it and I could get as good or better at much more realistic pricing levels . There are of course individuals who wouldnt blink handing over the money, so I guess that branding influences the decision to make those purchases.
Does branding play a substantial role or none at all in your decisions what to ride , wear, buy or be seen using ? If you were riding in a pack of Assos clad Pinarello Dogma 2 bike owners ......would it make you feel intimidated or any less of a rider because of it ?
Have you ever tried any of these 'brands' products that makes you think they're not worth it?
My opening post is my opinion, your reply was condescending and patronising, just thought id let you know this.
Condescending and patronising? Eh? How? He asked a simple question.
So I now think I understand you, you have an inferiority complex, maybe?
Certainly not, I do however take great objection to be talked down to by an a55hole .
Don't try to play the victim after starting a post about snobbery/elitism in cycling. It's tacky.
You appear to be the only one who cares what others wear.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
Grill wrote:Raffles wrote:dodgy wrote:Raffles wrote:LegendLust wrote:Raffles wrote:There are pricy products out there in road cycling land that are no better than other products which cost dramatically less....................thats not opinion, its fact. Ive been driven nuts by riders "who just cant wear anything less than Assos" and its individuals like that which make me think just how crucial is branding in road cycling.
Ive observed some amazing riders who own real world bikes and ive seen mediocre cyclists who are full of it as they ride on their italian carbon steeds . Other riders watch in awe as plonker pat parades around on his italian whilst there are far superior cyclists on much cheaper equipment who would absolutely destroy him..........obviously branding is playing a part.
I would never ever hand over the asking prices that Assos, Rapha or Oakley charge as I just dont think the goods are worth it and I could get as good or better at much more realistic pricing levels . There are of course individuals who wouldnt blink handing over the money, so I guess that branding influences the decision to make those purchases.
Does branding play a substantial role or none at all in your decisions what to ride , wear, buy or be seen using ? If you were riding in a pack of Assos clad Pinarello Dogma 2 bike owners ......would it make you feel intimidated or any less of a rider because of it ?
Have you ever tried any of these 'brands' products that makes you think they're not worth it?
My opening post is my opinion, your reply was condescending and patronising, just thought id let you know this.
Condescending and patronising? Eh? How? He asked a simple question.
So I now think I understand you, you have an inferiority complex, maybe?
Certainly not, I do however take great objection to be talked down to by an a55hole .
Don't try to play the victim after starting a post about snobbery/elitism in cycling. It's tacky.
You appear to be the only one who cares what others wear.
1) Standing up for yourself in the face of a patronising berk is not playing the victim
2) Thread title makes no inference to the words snob or elite.
I asked a simple question and thats it in a nutshell, the fact that others choose to boast about having wealth and this and that is the source of the snobbery and elitism which road cycling is sadly infected with and to which you drew attention to.2012 Cannondale CAAD 8 1050 -
Is cycling snobbery the new helmet debate?
It's boring, no one I've ever met has given a **** about what others wear and few people online who care seem to be 'inverse' snobs.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
This type of thread seems to be a re-occuring theme and always seems to want to focus on what differentiates cyclists rather than the shared interest.
I will put my hand up and confess that I actually get a lot of pleasure out of buying and putting together high end bike equipment and my cycle clothing is (mainly) Assos and Rapha. When I was younger I didn't have access to high end gear and made do with what I could afford and was at best an enthusiastic but sadly mediocre cyclist. Despite my access to high end stuff and despite my dedication to a pretty good training regime, I remain at best an enthusiastic but mediocre cyclist. I can confidently say the extra money I can now spend on bikes and equipment has not made me a better rider.
I find there is a separate enjoyment from having nice equipement and the enjoyment I get from riding. When out on the road I am pretty indifferent to the bike I am riding - I still get knackered climbing steep hills even on my lightest carbon bike and I still hate headwinds, irrespective of how aerodynamic the bike frame. If I meet up with other riders I really don't give a fig about what bike they ride or what clothes they wear, and usually the conversation will centre on the common interest - riding a bike.
My best memories from cycling are of the events and people rather than the equipment - I was in awe when meeting Beryl Burton but cannot remember the brand of bike or clothing she wore, I do remember how strong her legs looked. Coming to the top of the Ventoux or the Tourmalet my memories are of the pain and the sense of fulfilment (but mainly the pain), not how much better it was to be riding the climb on a C59 (it wasn't) or how much easier it was to switch from the 23 to the 25 cog with electric gearing. After a tough ride my bike and clothing will be a bit of a mess - a result of sweat, snot, spilt drinks and badly opened gels and I usually have a greater appreciation of it at that point than when it is looking at its pristine, expensive, catalogue friendly best.
Oh and one last thought, a puncture on a C59 with Di2 is as much of a pisser as on any bike.....0 -
I couldn't care less either way. I prefer clothing without brand names visible, mainly because I think it just looks rubbish. I think simple colours, clean lines and simplicity are simply better looking that a moving billboard from companies that most of us have no idea about.
If people have the money and not the ability (the closest category to me) then there's no reason why they shouldn't buy the best that they can. There are inverted snobs out there in every sport who think that its wrong that us talentless folks have the money to spend on nicer things then they think we are entitled to wear, as if the ability to buy/wear is somehow a divine right of those with ability. Everyone has hard times at some point - work is more than little low at the moment so no buying nice stuff at all for me. I don;t however develop an inferiority complex and start slagging off those who still buy nice kit.
Yes, I have a single pair of Assos shorts, funded by selling a whole lot of stuff on Ebay and I think they are more comfortable than any other brand I have worn. Everything else is pretty vanilla and unbranded apart from one top and I really couldn't give a rats @ss if someone on a 50 year old steel frame goes past me, wearing Lidl kit. I don't cycle to display fashion sense or ability - i do it to keep fit, enjoy myself and feel comfortable when I'm doing it.
If ability appeared anywhere in the equation, then I wouldn't be a cyclist.0 -
Raffles wrote:MountainMonster wrote:Raffles wrote:declan1 wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:declan1 wrote:I've got a bike that nobody in the world has ever heard of, and I ride around kit from Lidl. Apart from the fact the pad in my bibs has basically disappeared, it's not bad stuff, and for around £10 per item it's considerably cheaper than Assos or Castelli. I've never gone on a ride and moaned about my kit the whole way so it can't be bad!
Have ever ridden anything more expensive than the lidl stuff?
because if you haven't then you don't know what you're missing.
I know what I'm missing, but at the moment I can't justify the huge amounts of money needed for the nice kit. I'm happy with the Lidl stuff, so there's not much point in upgrading yet!
dec what sort of reaction would you get from your other half if they knew you shelled out £239 :shock: (faint) on a pair of Assos bib shorts ?
My wife encourages it, as we have the disposable income for it. I find these threads are only ever started by people who plain and simple can not afford it, which is pretty sad. Wait until you havethe disposable income and then your view will most likely change.
Just ridden in from the hunt have you ?
Oh how the cycling snob presumes he is the only one with money :roll: , I dont have any problems with disposable income like you take great joy in implying but I do take a stance against being ripped off by companies just putting the boot into the consumer because of "the brand" when there are a lot better alternatives that dont have "the brand"
My question has been answered as to the influence of the brand as you are indeed brainwashed and probably couldnt bear to ride with poor people :roll:
In the slightest do i care about eiding with "poor" people. I'm not so worried about what other people have which i have gathered from yourposts. I care about riding. At the end of the day I am hardly brainwashed. I won't take money to the grave with me, so if I feel the product is worth it for whatever reason, then I will buy it. I don't own any Rapha or Assos because I havn't had the need to change yet, but it will be probably Assos when I do. I like the look of it, it fits well, and does its job very well. I know the stuff will last. I've had various cheaper stuff and it has been fine, but now on my bibs the holsters are ripping a bit. They lasted 4 years so far and were a bit cheaper than Asos stuff, but then again Assos arenot very expensive for the quality.
I dont care who i ride with, as long as you are happy being out on your bike. I don't look down or up to/on anyone simply because I don't care. If you are on your bike that is enough for me. I focus on what I have and what is going on with me, as it does nothing but give you a bad attitude about something in your own life when you focus on other people, as this thread is a perfect example of. You may not have written the word snob or elite, but those are exactly the ideas you are discussing, and adding fuel to a fire. If you don't want to buy the products, fine. If you do, fine. But don't know a product you have never tried, state false facts, and then be extremely defensive when someone offers an opinion other than your own. At the end of the day, the products you are talking about it are worth it, and not obscenely expensive, but YOU just do not see the worth, that does not mean they are not worth it. I have noticed the elitism comments are only ever started by the people who do not have the item, than the people who do. Just get over it dude.
You are a pretty defensiveguy, and worry WAY too much about what other people have. Just ride your bike and enjoy life.0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:Why do people automatically think that if you can afford to buy Assos and Rapha and ride on a £6k bike you’re a) not worthy of it b) fat c) unfit and slow? Book yourself onto a Gran Fondo in Italy and watch your head exploded with confusion as a tannned 65 year old (man or woman) on an EPS loaded Pinerallo dressed in the latest Assos drops you like a stone.
Another week another thread loaded with snobbery.
Agreed, it's tedious bolleaux.0 -
Here's the simple answer - brand does matter to some people, it doesn't matter to others.
Personally I believe "generally" you get what you pay for. Some items I might go for a cheaper/non-branded version, other items I'd pay more for brand/perceived quality.
BUT...it's your choice what you ride/wear and it's got fork all to do with anyone else. I'm sick of seeing this cycling snobbery that sneers on people who ride bikes "above their station" or who aren't "what I'd call fit".
Concentrate on your own life and leave other people to make their own choices.0 -
I'm still waiting to be pointed in the direction of these mythical £239 Assos bib shorts. Like with many things people who haven't got any experience of trying more expensive, better quality brands only think of the more expensive part and automatically assume the people buying them are so stupid they will pay more for the same thing. You can get some very cheap, value for money kit that will do the job but you can also get some very expensive, value for money kit that does the same thing better / more comfortably. You can also get very expensive, poor value for money kit that people might buy just for the name but this sort of thing will usually lead to fads as people move to a new name to be fashionable. I don't think it's a coincidence that people have paid a lot of money for clothing by Assos or Castelli etc. for the whole 23 years I have been cycling.0
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Ive never had an issue with castelli,hell i own castelli goods, but assos just rip the ar$e out of it well and proper. id hand over a "bit" extra for castelli as they ARE worth it and i wouldnt hand out 2d for assos personally and thats just MY opinion.2012 Cannondale CAAD 8 1050
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What on earth are you on about? The only Castelli bibs I like are the Aero Race and Body Paint and they RRP for 135 and 180. The Assos Unos RRP at 130 and the Milles are 168. They both are both directed at the same maket and prices are comparable. Or is it that you're upset because Castelli goes on sale more often than Assos...English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Raffles wrote:Ive never had an issue with castelli,hell i own castelli goods, but assos just rip the ar$e out of it well and proper. id hand over a "bit" extra for castelli as they ARE worth it and i would hand out 2d for assos personally and thats just MY opinion.
I don't see your point?
Castelli Body paint bib shorts - RRP £180
Castelli Free Aero bib shorts - RRP £135
Assos Mille shorts - RRP £170
Assos Uno shorts - RRP £135
(Prices for both from Wiggle)
Assos is top end kit. Its not a rip off, its the same price as everyone else's top end kit? Don't really see where you've got this whole brand problem from because you don't have a problem with Castelli.. but they must also be ripping people off as their top end kit is the same price as Assos?
edit: beaten to it
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Raffles, if you can, you should try an Assos bib with the S5 mille pad on a long and difficult ride. If, after trying it, you still think it's overpriced rubbish, then fair enough, and you can sell it on to a happy buyer. I think you'd see why knowledgeable and non-gullible people pay what these cost.
Like a previous poster said, Assos is the wrong brand to target in your argument. I'm sure there's overpriced showy stuff that's not worth the asking price in quality, but Assos bibs can't be a good example of this. Also, Assos stuff is mostly not loudly branded (certainly compared to CASTELLI spanning the whole chest or most of the outer thighs), and most people wear their items in bland colours like black, blue or titanium grey. There are many moans about how much their stuff costs, but how often do you get people moaning about poor value for money? It may not make a difference to you, but it has to for the buyers.
And speaking of cost, it IS possible to find Assos items on big sales, especially items from the recently expired ranges. Head over to primera for 20% off at the moment. The 2012 T FI S5 mille can be had for £135, and the Uno for £103. Is that really so much to pay for a top-level product as your key piece of cycling clothing, the one that keeps your a*se comfy in extensive use over quite some time?0 -
Yeah, but Castelli don't do the £239 shorts do they?
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at the end of the day, people live to their means, and spend money on what they can personally justify. It has nothing to do with "this kit will do". People like having the best they can afford. We would all like to be rich, Money makes us tick. I couldnt go spend my money on a big holiday, but am quite happy to cane my money on my cycling hobby.
I buy the equipment brands because I like the brands / appearence and comfort and most importantly because I can afford it. It makes one feel good.
So what if I get destroyed on a hill on my bike wearing my clothes?? (although, this doesnt happen often as I always seem to do the overtaking :roll: )
Oh and to the OP, he wasnt being condescending and patronising, it was a simple question is how i read it.. i think you got it wrong and are being paranoid!0 -
I wouldn't wear Rapha precisely because of the branding - I don't drink coffee, and rarely spend any time staring off introspectively into the monochromatic middle distance. Nor do I spend any time talking about 'the ride'.
I've got an Altura jersey, and it's rubbish - odd cut, badly made, clings like a cheap suit, and does an excellent job of keeping all the sweat and heat in. Louis Garneau is my current favourite because it fits me well, is good value for money, and lasts well.
Other than that, yes, branding is important - we had this argument/debate the other week. It's why the likes of Apple, BMW, and Pinarello exist when Samsung, Skoda, and Raleigh make perfectly usable alternatives at a fraction of the cost.0 -
We live in a consumer society and sport/cycling is not exempt from it - very little is.
That said the more expensive products / brands are generally better. How much you are willing to pay probably depends on your needs and disposable income.
I'm not really sure what you are getting at? Should cyclists reject the contemporary capitalist system? I just want to ride my bike in comfort!'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.0 -
Will there be a thread along soon to tell us why we shouldn't wear trade kit?0
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I've got shit loads of cash and i love to be best dressed at any event and love to flaunt it others faces.. everyone is different.. be boring place if everyone was the same and had as much money as i do!0
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Churchill123 wrote:I've got shoot loads of cash and i love to be best dressed at any event and love to flaunt it others faces.. everyone is different.. be boring place if everyone was the same and had as much money as i do!
I kinda like this guy...
English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
YIMan wrote:Here's the simple answer - brand does matter to some people, it doesn't matter to others.
Personally I believe "generally" you get what you pay for. Some items I might go for a cheaper/non-branded version, other items I'd pay more for brand/perceived quality.
BUT...it's your choice what you ride/wear and it's got fork all to do with anyone else. I'm sick of seeing this cycling snobbery that sneers on people who ride bikes "above their station" or who aren't "what I'd call fit".
Concentrate on your own life and leave other people to make their own choices.
+1,
No-one needs to be judged by what bike they ride or what gear they wear.
Buy what you want, can afford and be happy about it. Too much bitterness around, especially on these boards.0 -
Grill wrote:Churchill123 wrote:I've got shoot loads of cash and i love to be best dressed at any event and love to flaunt it others faces.. everyone is different.. be boring place if everyone was the same and had as much money as i do!
I kinda like this guy...
Ha Ha , me too." Smithers! Get my bicycle prepared for flaunting"0 -
dodgy wrote:Raffles wrote:LegendLust wrote:Raffles wrote:There are pricy products out there in road cycling land that are no better than other products which cost dramatically less....................thats not opinion, its fact. Ive been driven nuts by riders "who just cant wear anything less than Assos" and its individuals like that which make me think just how crucial is branding in road cycling.
Ive observed some amazing riders who own real world bikes and ive seen mediocre cyclists who are full of it as they ride on their italian carbon steeds . Other riders watch in awe as plonker pat parades around on his italian whilst there are far superior cyclists on much cheaper equipment who would absolutely destroy him..........obviously branding is playing a part.
I would never ever hand over the asking prices that Assos, Rapha or Oakley charge as I just dont think the goods are worth it and I could get as good or better at much more realistic pricing levels . There are of course individuals who wouldnt blink handing over the money, so I guess that branding influences the decision to make those purchases.
Does branding play a substantial role or none at all in your decisions what to ride , wear, buy or be seen using ? If you were riding in a pack of Assos clad Pinarello Dogma 2 bike owners ......would it make you feel intimidated or any less of a rider because of it ?
Have you ever tried any of these 'brands' products that makes you think they're not worth it?
My opening post is my opinion, your reply was condescending and patronising, just thought id let you know this.
Condescending and patronising? Eh? How? He asked a simple question.
So I now think I understand you, you have an inferiority complex, maybe?
This ^^^^^^
Raffles, the only person who seems to care is you. You talk about having a disposable income or whatever but constantly start posts about lower end equipment be it bikes, clothing etc.
Ride what you want, wear whats affordable/comfortable and sod what others think unless you are riding to impress them?
Bordering troll imo.
Oh and stop avoiding the question and show us where these mega expensive assos are!!0 -
Raffles wrote:There are pricy products out there in road cycling land that are no better than other products which cost dramatically less....................thats not opinion, its fact. Ive been driven nuts by riders "who just cant wear anything less than Assos" and its individuals like that which make me think just how crucial is branding in road cycling.
Ive observed some amazing riders who own real world bikes and ive seen mediocre cyclists who are full of it as they ride on their italian carbon steeds . Other riders watch in awe as plonker pat parades around on his italian whilst there are far superior cyclists on much cheaper equipment who would absolutely destroy him..........obviously branding is playing a part.
I would never ever hand over the asking prices that Assos, Rapha or Oakley charge as I just dont think the goods are worth it and I could get as good or better at much more realistic pricing levels . There are of course individuals who wouldnt blink handing over the money, so I guess that branding influences the decision to make those purchases.
Does branding play a substantial role or none at all in your decisions what to ride , wear, buy or be seen using ? If you were riding in a pack of Assos clad Pinarello Dogma 2 bike owners ......would it make you feel intimidated or any less of a rider because of it ?
Vinegar ?Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved0 -
My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.
Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.0 -
Indeed.0
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This kind of sums up the whole debate for me: http://internationale.teamjva.com/0
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robbo2011 wrote:My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.
Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.
I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.
I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759
Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.
In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion 2012 Cannondale CAAD 8 1050 -
Raffles wrote:robbo2011 wrote:My goodness me, the OP does seem to have a serious inferiority complex/inverse snobbery thing going on. He is also guilty of projecting his value judgements onto others. What's the point of getting wound up by what other people spend their money on? It isn't healthy.
Raffles, my advice be to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and just get on with enjoying your cycling.
I love my cycling Rob and thats never gonna be an issue dude.
I was asked to provide proof of big brands ripping the @rse out of it with pricing and here goes
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18628
Oakleys at asking price £187, should come with Im a gullible mug tee shirt, Ill buy a set of bolles and pocket the £177 change thanks very much, do they look £187 worth............nope and a set of the latest Assos ones will cost well over £200 :shock: and an awful lot of riders when it comes to visuals agree that they suck.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89759
Assos long cycling pants at..................wait for it...................£306.00 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Jeezus what are that brand like, they look awful and anybody who shells out £306 deserves all they get in my opinion, go on and somebody justify how Assos can charge £306 for pants as id love to read it.
In my opinion Assos are about bleeding the money out of riders for chinese made products that cost buttons to make and their price structure is way beyond immoral. Your mileage may vary and thats your opinion, but Im stating how I feel on this one, not looking to pick fights here but opinions make for good reading and lively discussion
I buy my suits from primark because they're cheaper than anywhere else.0
