Dave Anderson 953 - Completed!

APIII

drlodge wrote:

Personally I'm not a fan of brazing and lugs on a 953, but those highly polished lugs do look amazing. Quite interesting for me to see this more "traditional" 953 build compared to my Rourke.

When do you expect to have delivery?

You might have mentioned that a couple of times
It's due to be painted early next week, so then it's just a case of how long it takes to ship it over.

rolf_f

drlodge wrote:

Personally I'm not a fan of brazing and lugs on a 953, but those highly polished lugs do look amazing. Quite interesting for me to see this more "traditional" 953 build compared to my Rourke.

What's actually wrong with lugs on a 953 frame bike - ie why specifically not on a 953?

Have to admit, I think lugged frames just look more interesting and stylish. Lugless metal frames are just a bit dull looking to my eyes even if the sleekness can't be denied.

drlodge

Rolf F wrote:

What's actually wrong with lugs on a 953 frame bike - ie why specifically not on a 953?

A few reasons, most are personal:

1. Since 953 is a stainless steel, part of the attraction is in leaving certain areas bare. This means on brazed/lugged construction, the brazing is not the same colour as the stainless and so looks odd. However I don't see this problem in the photos so wonder if there is a way round it (silver solder?)

2. Debatable this one, but its the impact on the heat affected area and hence impact on the heat treatment of the steel. TIG uses higher heat on a small area. Brazing uses lower heat but on a larger area. I prefer the trade off of TIG welding but its debatable whether either really has any significant impact on the heat stregthening of the steel. Rourke's have mentioned this at some point, and cite it as a reason to TIG rather than braze.

3. 953 is a modern steel so I prefer modern TIG techniques rather than "old" lugs. Personal preference.

4. Lugs restrict frame geometry, TIG doesn't. But that's not particular to 953. Also lugs weigh more.

So in a nutshell: TIG is lighter, at least as strong if not stronger, more flexible and is more aesthetically pleasing on a stainless frame to my eye. How would you achieve this look using brazing techniques (leaving it bare)?

jordan_217

Standing by for potentially, the prettiest bike to grace this forum.....

And Ugo, mirror polished frames still look ace! :evil:

APIII

drlodge wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

What's actually wrong with lugs on a 953 frame bike - ie why specifically not on a 953?

A few reasons, most are personal:

1. Since 953 is a stainless steel, part of the attraction is in leaving certain areas bare. This means on brazed/lugged construction, the brazing is not the same colour as the stainless and so looks odd. However I don't see this problem in the photos so wonder if there is a way round it (silver solder?)

Yes, silver solder.

2. Debatable this one, but its the impact on the heat affected area and hence impact on the heat treatment of the steel. TIG uses higher heat on a small area. Brazing uses lower heat but on a larger area. I prefer the trade off of TIG welding but its debatable whether either really has any significant impact on the heat stregthening of the steel. Rourke's have mentioned this at some point, and cite it as a reason to TIG rather than braze.

The fact he provides the frames for a cyclocross team gives me enough confidence in the construction method.

3. 953 is a modern steel so I prefer modern TIG techniques rather than "old" lugs. Personal preference.

That's the beauty of custom steel. You can have any spec, any geometry and a choice of construction methods. I would suggest though that most, including myself, prefer lugs on a steel frame.

4. Lugs restrict frame geometry, TIG doesn't. But that's not particular to 953. Also lugs weigh more.

Lugs are only a restriction if you want something very unusual. There are hundreds of options to choose from, and the geometry I chose hasn't been restricted by using lugs. I agree about weight though, so if that's your priority, TIG is the way to go.

So in a nutshell: TIG is lighter, at least as strong if not stronger, more flexible and is more aesthetically pleasing on a stainless frame to my eye. How would you achieve this look using brazing techniques (leaving it bare)?

APIII

Couple of updates. Getting there...



It may not be obvious from the photo, but the downtube and headtube have been polished and the logo will be masked off during painting, to give polished stainless logos at the end.

spasypaddy

thats beautiful. Lugs are gorgeous

drlodge

Lugs aside, I have no doubt this is gonna be one nice frame...looking forward to seeing the finished product!

BR 1979

drlodge wrote:

Lugs aside, I have no doubt this is gonna be one nice frame...looking forward to seeing the finished product!

+1 agree with DrLodge. Definitely the best 953 frame on the forum.

Beatmaker

I too have a personal preference for lugless on modern steel, but this might be the frame to change my mind. Cannot wait to see it finished.

shaw8670

beautiful finish, what is the frame likely to weigh?

APIII

To be honest, I've no idea what it will weigh. The fork won't be below 600g though, so it's not going to challenge any of the race frames for lightness.

mr_sj

That saddle is stunning, love the green underlay

APIII

Getting there



Serial number!

rajMAN

APIII This is coming on a treat, could you tell me what the green underlayer material on the saddle is? I assume its a dyed natural material. :?

lawrences

:0 I want one.

APIII

Painting is nearly complete but as I'm away cannot post the pics up!

lostboysaint

That's fantastic.

APIII

lostboysaint wrote:

That's fantastic.

I tried to post some more pics but couldn't see the images in my post so I deleted it. Were you able to see them?

secretsam

APIII wrote:

Saddle and bar tape have arrived. It's a Specialized Romin, recovered in leather with a green underlay to match the paint on the frame. Very happy with these

Now that's seriously lovely

APIII

Ber Nard

This is going to look very good indeed!

Rob

APIII

First pics of finished frame

random man

That is a stunning looking frame, the mutt's nuts or Rolls Royce of frames, a work of art, fantastic Enjoy it.

napoleond

Oof!

Can't wait to see it built up!

dynamicbrick

That's beautiful.

Not sure about the green on the stem, but that's entirely subjective.

What isn't subjective is those lugs for the gear cables; they're exquisite. I love it when form and function combine like that.

ademort

Looks great. When will you have it built up, and if i may ask what is the budget for your bike.
Ademort

tremayne

Awesome frame. Cracking paint job. Very very nice.
Don't like the stem at all - looks like it is trying too hard, when it should chill out and let the frame steal the show.
I'm sure the bike will look great. Have been coming back to 'you bikes' purely for this one project!

Honest question - what do you think to the stem?

tremayne

Just had a look at their website - and a of the opinion this is their best work yet (certainly of those shown on their site).

Awesome!

bencolem

One of the most beautiful frames I've seen, marvellous (and so much more pleasant than DrLodge's - sorry, couldn't resist!).

953 fork is awesome! What does it weigh?

What are the drop outs? Can't help but wonder if a mango headset would work better or not? Please tell me that you're going to remove the Specialized logo off that saddle!