Seemingly trivial things that annoy you

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

Anyway, back to trivial annoyances - trying to eat a Toblerone that has just come out of the fridge without doing any damage to your teeth or mouth.

Chocolate should not be kept in the fridge anyway.

Or, is this one for the unpopular opinion thread?

Don't you have a proper chocolate cabinet kept at exactly the right temperature & humidity?

rick_chasey

I think we have different ideas of what is "pretty good" and not, tbh.

I mean, look at the state of this, even the bbc has article explainers on why they're rubbish: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51026379

And since then they've taken 30% of the carriages out - one of the proposed solutions for improved services!

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

I think we have different ideas of what is "pretty good" and not, tbh.

I mean, look at the state of this, even the bbc has article explainers on why they're rubbish: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51026379

And since then they've taken 30% of the carriages out - one of the proposed solutions for improved services!

They haven't reduced train size on any of the routes I have used recently. I think you are damning all on the basis of one route.

If you think everything is uniquely bad in the UK, have a look at Jon Worth on Twitter, who has just done a big trans European train journey with very mixed results.

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

I think we have different ideas of what is "pretty good" and not, tbh.

I mean, look at the state of this, even the bbc has article explainers on why they're rubbish: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51026379

And since then they've taken 30% of the carriages out - one of the proposed solutions for improved services!

They haven't reduced train size on any of the routes I have used recently. I think you are damning all on the basis of one route.

If you think everything is uniquely bad in the UK, have a look at Jon Worth on Twitter, who has just done a big trans European train journey with very mixed results.

In Scotland they are only just phasing put those 1980s carriages based on a bus. Please don't pretend the railways in the UK are any good.

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

Anyway, back to trivial annoyances - trying to eat a Toblerone that has just come out of the fridge without doing any damage to your teeth or mouth.

Chocolate should not be kept in the fridge anyway.

Or, is this one for the unpopular opinion thread?

Where are you keeping it when it's 28 degrees out and about?

Keep it in the fridge but don't eat it straight away is the right answer, but who's waiting once they have decided they want some?

Don't people have larders any more?

Ben6899

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Apparently the median salary for railworkers is around £44,000 and that is across all workers including cleaners etc. (although that came from Grant Shapps so I suspect there is some manipulation / spin involved). The 'modernisation' that the RMT are fighting against includes such radical measures as moving to electronic timesheets instead of paper and insisting the same number of ticket offices are kept open when the vast majority of tickets sold these days are not purchased at a ticket office. Apparently the job losses is a red herring too as this is being dealt with by (over-subscribed) voluntary redundancies.

I don't think it is realistic to expect pay rises to match or even get close to current rates of inflation but then I've worked in the private sector for 26 years now so I'm used to pay rises reflecting the market rather than inflation with companies limited by what they can afford.

The RMT still want the trains to be run like they were in 1930. If they had their way there'd be an engineer, brake man and fire man for each train.

The RMT wants a safe railway and, to be fair, they has embraced a lot of train-based technology that monitors many track condition parameters. For example, the bogey-mounted cameras can identify a missing clip and feed back the location (to 0.1m) to maintenance units for follow-up. Interestingly, this development reduces the required patrol frequency, which takes men off track (safer), but will inevitably lead to job losses.

The RMT is not blocking these developments. Not under Mick Lynch's leadership, at least.

Pross

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

Anyway, back to trivial annoyances - trying to eat a Toblerone that has just come out of the fridge without doing any damage to your teeth or mouth.

Chocolate should not be kept in the fridge anyway.

Or, is this one for the unpopular opinion thread?

Where are you keeping it when it's 28 degrees out and about?

Keep it in the fridge but don't eat it straight away is the right answer, but who's waiting once they have decided they want some?

Don't people have larders any more?

I have a lard ar$e if that counts which could be related to the chocolate issue!

skyblueamateur

The RMT are looking for a 7% increase. The £44k figure from Grant Shapps is utter sh1te as train drivers are part of ASLEF not the RMT.

I think a compromise figure of 5% would probably solve it,but I'm sure it's a bitter pill to swallow for public sector workers who are repeatedly told by this Government that there is no money, on the same day they announce that the triple lock is being brought back and pensioners will see a double digit rise.

rick_chasey

skyblueamateur said:

The RMT are looking for a 7% increase. The £44k figure from Grant Shapps is utter sh1te as train drivers are part of ASLEF not the RMT.

I think a compromise figure of 5% would probably solve it,but I'm sure it's a bitter pill to swallow for public sector workers who are repeatedly told by this Government that there is no money, on the same day they announce that the triple lock is being brought back and pensioners will see a double digit rise.

5% doesn't solve the funding problem.

skyblueamateur

rick_chasey said:

skyblueamateur said:

The RMT are looking for a 7% increase. The £44k figure from Grant Shapps is utter sh1te as train drivers are part of ASLEF not the RMT.

I think a compromise figure of 5% would probably solve it,but I'm sure it's a bitter pill to swallow for public sector workers who are repeatedly told by this Government that there is no money, on the same day they announce that the triple lock is being brought back and pensioners will see a double digit rise.

5% doesn't solve the funding problem.

What do you suggest then?

rick_chasey

skyblueamateur said:

rick_chasey said:

skyblueamateur said:

The RMT are looking for a 7% increase. The £44k figure from Grant Shapps is utter sh1te as train drivers are part of ASLEF not the RMT.

I think a compromise figure of 5% would probably solve it,but I'm sure it's a bitter pill to swallow for public sector workers who are repeatedly told by this Government that there is no money, on the same day they announce that the triple lock is being brought back and pensioners will see a double digit rise.

5% doesn't solve the funding problem.

What do you suggest then?

So it's way bigger than a bit of pay. My moaning aside, the system is chronically underfunded and the funding model is clearly not appropriate for a post-corona world.

I suspect as well as it is currently laid out it is not also that well suited as a service for a post-corona world, though we're too soon after the fact to be sure.

So ultimately the gov't needs to put some serious money behind revamping the entire model to account for this big change in public behaviour. In so doing, they could probably kill two birds with one stone and revamp the organisational structure of the system to stop this situation where everyone points at everyone else to solve the problem.

But that would be grasping the nettle and spending a lot of capital and heartache and I don't know if anyone is really up for the fight.

TheBigBean

So other people should pay more for you to use the train?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

So other people should pay more for you to use the train?

Forget my gripes for a moment - the system as it is relies on pre-corona travel behaviour to pay for itself.

That is unsustainable.

So you nee a new model. One that reflects post-corona travel behaviour.

In the meantime, we know the system has massive flaws. The franchise system doesn't work, but that's because the entire rail system is made up of a bunch of different organisations that each look after one bit and no-one looks at the whole picture.

It makes for an inefficient and costly model even in a pre-corona time, let alone a post-corona time.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

So other people should pay more for you to use the train?

Forget my gripes for a moment - the system as it is relies on pre-corona travel behaviour to pay for itself.

That is unsustainable.

So you nee a new model. One that reflects post-corona travel behaviour.

In the meantime, we know the system has massive flaws. The franchise system doesn't work, but that's because the entire rail system is made up of a bunch of different organisations that each look after one bit and no-one looks at the whole picture.

It makes for an inefficient and costly model even in a pre-corona time, let alone a post-corona time.

There are three options (i) passengers pay more (ii) government pay more (iii) magic system change which saves load of money. My feeling is that (iii) is the dream solution that everyone wants, but is unlikely to happen.

rick_chasey

I think the “govt pays more in short and medium term for lower long term” costs is an option, if you are up for it?

The system needs wholesale change - that is the challenge

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

I think the “govt pays more in short and medium term for lower long term” costs is an option, if you are up for it?

The system needs wholesale change - that is the challenge

Of course it is theoretically possible that some capital investment now would lead to savings and that current train operators and network rail are unwilling to make that investment, because their investment timelines are too short; however, I would file this in the magic solution category.

First.Aspect

Ben6899 said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Apparently the median salary for railworkers is around £44,000 and that is across all workers including cleaners etc. (although that came from Grant Shapps so I suspect there is some manipulation / spin involved). The 'modernisation' that the RMT are fighting against includes such radical measures as moving to electronic timesheets instead of paper and insisting the same number of ticket offices are kept open when the vast majority of tickets sold these days are not purchased at a ticket office. Apparently the job losses is a red herring too as this is being dealt with by (over-subscribed) voluntary redundancies.

I don't think it is realistic to expect pay rises to match or even get close to current rates of inflation but then I've worked in the private sector for 26 years now so I'm used to pay rises reflecting the market rather than inflation with companies limited by what they can afford.

The RMT still want the trains to be run like they were in 1930. If they had their way there'd be an engineer, brake man and fire man for each train.

The RMT wants a safe railway and, to be fair, they has embraced a lot of train-based technology that monitors many track condition parameters. For example, the bogey-mounted cameras can identify a missing clip and feed back the location (to 0.1m) to maintenance units for follow-up. Interestingly, this development reduces the required patrol frequency, which takes men off track (safer), but will inevitably lead to job losses.

The RMT is not blocking these developments. Not under Mick Lynch's leadership, at least.

Could be aslef. I just hear union and a gritty regional accent and I tune out.

Essentially anything that seems to result in automation of something thst a person currently does seems to be dressed up as an objection on the grounds of safety. Such as, having a person on the train to open and close the doors, instead of the driver. Twas ever thus, and means you can't ever really tell when they are right.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

I think the “govt pays more in short and medium term for lower long term” costs is an option, if you are up for it?

The system needs wholesale change - that is the challenge

Of course it is theoretically possible that some capital investment now would lead to savings and that current train operators and network rail are unwilling to make that investment, because their investment timelines are too short; however, I would file this in the magic solution category.

The issue as I see it is that a lot of the costs or rail are fixed regardless of demand. A country has to decide if it wants it, and then pay for it.

It is tempting to think that renationalisation of the franchised part would stop money bleeding out to shareholders, but the reality is that anything run by a government would be even more tragic.

morstar

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

I think the “govt pays more in short and medium term for lower long term” costs is an option, if you are up for it?

The system needs wholesale change - that is the challenge

Of course it is theoretically possible that some capital investment now would lead to savings and that current train operators and network rail are unwilling to make that investment, because their investment timelines are too short; however, I would file this in the magic solution category.

The issue as I see it is that a lot of the costs or rail are fixed regardless of demand. A country has to decide if it wants it, and then pay for it.

It is tempting to think that renationalisation of the franchised part would stop money bleeding out to shareholders, but the reality is that anything run by a government would be even more tragic.

That’s the conundrum.

British rail was appalling in a way RC couldn’t possibly imagine.
I have generally found train travel to be pretty good in the last 10 years. A mix of commuting, business travel and leisure, up, down and across country. Far from perfect but not at all the same experience as RC.

Pross

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

I think the “govt pays more in short and medium term for lower long term” costs is an option, if you are up for it?

The system needs wholesale change - that is the challenge

Of course it is theoretically possible that some capital investment now would lead to savings and that current train operators and network rail are unwilling to make that investment, because their investment timelines are too short; however, I would file this in the magic solution category.

The issue as I see it is that a lot of the costs or rail are fixed regardless of demand. A country has to decide if it wants it, and then pay for it.

It is tempting to think that renationalisation of the franchised part would stop money bleeding out to shareholders, but the reality is that anything run by a government would be even more tragic.

The system in Wales seems to be bettersince Transport for Wales took over running things. Admittedly this was originally a partnership with Amey / Veolia where the Government had to take it on as operator of last resort due to the pandemic but for me Government owned companies are the way to go. It seems to work OK with things like National Highways, Homes England, AWE etc.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

I think we have different ideas of what is "pretty good" and not, tbh.

I mean, look at the state of this, even the bbc has article explainers on why they're rubbish: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51026379

And since then they've taken 30% of the carriages out - one of the proposed solutions for improved services!

They haven't reduced train size on any of the routes I have used recently. I think you are damning all on the basis of one route.

If you think everything is uniquely bad in the UK, have a look at Jon Worth on Twitter, who has just done a big trans European train journey with very mixed results.

In Scotland they are only just phasing put those 1980s carriages based on a bus. Please don't pretend the railways in the UK are any good.

Unless you have the wealth of Norway, sparsely populated areas are never going to have lavish railways.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

Ben6899 said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Apparently the median salary for railworkers is around £44,000 and that is across all workers including cleaners etc. (although that came from Grant Shapps so I suspect there is some manipulation / spin involved). The 'modernisation' that the RMT are fighting against includes such radical measures as moving to electronic timesheets instead of paper and insisting the same number of ticket offices are kept open when the vast majority of tickets sold these days are not purchased at a ticket office. Apparently the job losses is a red herring too as this is being dealt with by (over-subscribed) voluntary redundancies.

I don't think it is realistic to expect pay rises to match or even get close to current rates of inflation but then I've worked in the private sector for 26 years now so I'm used to pay rises reflecting the market rather than inflation with companies limited by what they can afford.

The RMT still want the trains to be run like they were in 1930. If they had their way there'd be an engineer, brake man and fire man for each train.

The RMT wants a safe railway and, to be fair, they has embraced a lot of train-based technology that monitors many track condition parameters. For example, the bogey-mounted cameras can identify a missing clip and feed back the location (to 0.1m) to maintenance units for follow-up. Interestingly, this development reduces the required patrol frequency, which takes men off track (safer), but will inevitably lead to job losses.

The RMT is not blocking these developments. Not under Mick Lynch's leadership, at least.

Could be aslef. I just hear union and a gritty regional accent and I tune out.

Essentially anything that seems to result in automation of something thst a person currently does seems to be dressed up as an objection on the grounds of safety. Such as, having a person on the train to open and close the doors, instead of the driver. Twas ever thus, and means you can't ever really tell when they are right.

You can. They aren't.

Pross

People paying tribute to a child who drowned by releasing a load of balloons in the river. I know it sounds harsh but surely there's enough knowledge of the damage that sort of thing can do to wildlife and surely there are more environmentally friendly ways people can pay tribute?

morstar

Pross said:

People paying tribute to a child who drowned by releasing a load of balloons in the river. I know it sounds harsh but surely there's enough knowledge of the damage that sort of thing can do to wildlife and surely there are more environmentally friendly ways people can pay tribute?

I agree. Unfortunately round our way, there are a few memorials popping up in open countryside.
Adorned with tinsel ornaments and all sorts of wotsit. Not environmentally damaging as with the balloons but really quite vulgar looking and totally out of place.

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

I think we have different ideas of what is "pretty good" and not, tbh.

I mean, look at the state of this, even the bbc has article explainers on why they're rubbish: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51026379

And since then they've taken 30% of the carriages out - one of the proposed solutions for improved services!

They haven't reduced train size on any of the routes I have used recently. I think you are damning all on the basis of one route.

If you think everything is uniquely bad in the UK, have a look at Jon Worth on Twitter, who has just done a big trans European train journey with very mixed results.

In Scotland they are only just phasing put those 1980s carriages based on a bus. Please don't pretend the railways in the UK are any good.

Unless you have the wealth of Norway, sparsely populated areas are never going to have lavish railways.

Sparsely populated places like commuter lines to Glasgow Central?

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Ben6899 said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Apparently the median salary for railworkers is around £44,000 and that is across all workers including cleaners etc. (although that came from Grant Shapps so I suspect there is some manipulation / spin involved). The 'modernisation' that the RMT are fighting against includes such radical measures as moving to electronic timesheets instead of paper and insisting the same number of ticket offices are kept open when the vast majority of tickets sold these days are not purchased at a ticket office. Apparently the job losses is a red herring too as this is being dealt with by (over-subscribed) voluntary redundancies.

I don't think it is realistic to expect pay rises to match or even get close to current rates of inflation but then I've worked in the private sector for 26 years now so I'm used to pay rises reflecting the market rather than inflation with companies limited by what they can afford.

The RMT still want the trains to be run like they were in 1930. If they had their way there'd be an engineer, brake man and fire man for each train.

The RMT wants a safe railway and, to be fair, they has embraced a lot of train-based technology that monitors many track condition parameters. For example, the bogey-mounted cameras can identify a missing clip and feed back the location (to 0.1m) to maintenance units for follow-up. Interestingly, this development reduces the required patrol frequency, which takes men off track (safer), but will inevitably lead to job losses.

The RMT is not blocking these developments. Not under Mick Lynch's leadership, at least.

Could be aslef. I just hear union and a gritty regional accent and I tune out.

Essentially anything that seems to result in automation of something thst a person currently does seems to be dressed up as an objection on the grounds of safety. Such as, having a person on the train to open and close the doors, instead of the driver. Twas ever thus, and means you can't ever really tell when they are right.

You can. They aren't.

I can't tell because I'm less able to process complex information than you are.

Pross

morstar said:

Pross said:

People paying tribute to a child who drowned by releasing a load of balloons in the river. I know it sounds harsh but surely there's enough knowledge of the damage that sort of thing can do to wildlife and surely there are more environmentally friendly ways people can pay tribute?

I agree. Unfortunately round our way, there are a few memorials popping up in open countryside.
Adorned with tinsel ornaments and all sorts of wotsit. Not environmentally damaging as with the balloons but really quite vulgar looking and totally out of place.

Yeah and people get very upset when their unauthorised memorial gets cleared

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Ben6899 said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Apparently the median salary for railworkers is around £44,000 and that is across all workers including cleaners etc. (although that came from Grant Shapps so I suspect there is some manipulation / spin involved). The 'modernisation' that the RMT are fighting against includes such radical measures as moving to electronic timesheets instead of paper and insisting the same number of ticket offices are kept open when the vast majority of tickets sold these days are not purchased at a ticket office. Apparently the job losses is a red herring too as this is being dealt with by (over-subscribed) voluntary redundancies.

I don't think it is realistic to expect pay rises to match or even get close to current rates of inflation but then I've worked in the private sector for 26 years now so I'm used to pay rises reflecting the market rather than inflation with companies limited by what they can afford.

The RMT still want the trains to be run like they were in 1930. If they had their way there'd be an engineer, brake man and fire man for each train.

The RMT wants a safe railway and, to be fair, they has embraced a lot of train-based technology that monitors many track condition parameters. For example, the bogey-mounted cameras can identify a missing clip and feed back the location (to 0.1m) to maintenance units for follow-up. Interestingly, this development reduces the required patrol frequency, which takes men off track (safer), but will inevitably lead to job losses.

The RMT is not blocking these developments. Not under Mick Lynch's leadership, at least.

Could be aslef. I just hear union and a gritty regional accent and I tune out.

Essentially anything that seems to result in automation of something thst a person currently does seems to be dressed up as an objection on the grounds of safety. Such as, having a person on the train to open and close the doors, instead of the driver. Twas ever thus, and means you can't ever really tell when they are right.

You can. They aren't.

I can't tell because I'm less able to process complex information than you are.

Nothing that complex, just that automated trains are pretty tried and tested

First.Aspect

Pross said:

morstar said:

Pross said:

People paying tribute to a child who drowned by releasing a load of balloons in the river. I know it sounds harsh but surely there's enough knowledge of the damage that sort of thing can do to wildlife and surely there are more environmentally friendly ways people can pay tribute?

I agree. Unfortunately round our way, there are a few memorials popping up in open countryside.
Adorned with tinsel ornaments and all sorts of wotsit. Not environmentally damaging as with the balloons but really quite vulgar looking and totally out of place.

Yeah and people get very upset when their unauthorised memorial gets cleared

Remember all those ghost bikes? And the arguments about removing them?

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Ben6899 said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Apparently the median salary for railworkers is around £44,000 and that is across all workers including cleaners etc. (although that came from Grant Shapps so I suspect there is some manipulation / spin involved). The 'modernisation' that the RMT are fighting against includes such radical measures as moving to electronic timesheets instead of paper and insisting the same number of ticket offices are kept open when the vast majority of tickets sold these days are not purchased at a ticket office. Apparently the job losses is a red herring too as this is being dealt with by (over-subscribed) voluntary redundancies.

I don't think it is realistic to expect pay rises to match or even get close to current rates of inflation but then I've worked in the private sector for 26 years now so I'm used to pay rises reflecting the market rather than inflation with companies limited by what they can afford.

The RMT still want the trains to be run like they were in 1930. If they had their way there'd be an engineer, brake man and fire man for each train.

The RMT wants a safe railway and, to be fair, they has embraced a lot of train-based technology that monitors many track condition parameters. For example, the bogey-mounted cameras can identify a missing clip and feed back the location (to 0.1m) to maintenance units for follow-up. Interestingly, this development reduces the required patrol frequency, which takes men off track (safer), but will inevitably lead to job losses.

The RMT is not blocking these developments. Not under Mick Lynch's leadership, at least.

Could be aslef. I just hear union and a gritty regional accent and I tune out.

Essentially anything that seems to result in automation of something thst a person currently does seems to be dressed up as an objection on the grounds of safety. Such as, having a person on the train to open and close the doors, instead of the driver. Twas ever thus, and means you can't ever really tell when they are right.

You can. They aren't.

I can't tell because I'm less able to process complex information than you are.

Nothing that complex, just that automated trains are pretty tried and tested

And unused on most of the tube network.